Teenager suicides

[gammonbabe]

Why would kids do this?

http://inetdocs.loudoun.gov/sheriff/docs/newsreleases_/010405newinform/office2k/office2k.htm

I have a teenage daughter. She is dating, and her current interest is someone I don't approve of. Am I going to tell her she can't see him? No, and for a number of reasons:

1. Teenagers are not rational. See the above article.
2. If I tell her she can't see him I make him all the more desireable.
3. I would basically force her to lie to me, because I remember how a teenager thinks and she would find ways to see him.
4. She is pretty smart for a kid. Sooner or later she will figure it out and lose him.

I pick my battle. I don't pick battles that are not important, and I don't pick battles where everyone will loose. I pick the ones where I can influence something that is important to me and to my daughter.

Marianne

[Sunny]

quote:Originally posted by gammonbabe

Why would kids do this?

http://inetdocs.loudoun.gov/sheriff/docs/newsreleases_/010405newinform/office2k/office2k.htm

I have a teenage daughter. She is dating, and her current interest is someone I don't approve of. Am I going to tell her she can't see him? No, and for a number of reasons:

1. Teenagers are not rational. See the above article.
2. If I tell her she can't see him I make him all the more desireable.
3. I would basically force her to lie to me, because I remember how a teenager thinks and she would find ways to see him.
4. She is pretty smart for a kid. Sooner or later she will figure it out and lose him.

I pick my battle. I don't pick battles that are not important, and I don't pick battles where everyone will loose. I pick the ones where I can influence something that is important to me and to my daughter.

Marianne

That is the most "holier-than-thou" post I have ever read. Even Brim wouldn't write something like this.
Why would kids do this? You answered it yourself- because kids are not rational.

[SK8R]

You do not pick battles that are not important. Well, that's good of you.
So you and your daughter are obviously on the same page, or maybe not, since you do not really like her current interest.

Well, I don't know what happened here and all we can go by is the police report.
This is really a tragic and horrific event. A night mare!
I know many many many rational teenagers.
I know quite a few irrational adults!

[Barbara]

Hey all: there is a lot of speculation in the press, because of what little the Sheriff's office has been able to officially release before they get all the forensics. I make no comment on Marianne's and Sunny's opinions, but offer the suggestion that since all is still speculative at this point, why not avoid getting hot at each other about it? Teen suicide/parenting teens is surely a worthy topic. However these kids ended up like this (which none of us know for sure) is so sad; please don't you guys fight each other about it.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

[SK8R]

Hello Barbara, I know that all of you there in your beautiful neighborhood are in a state of utter shock and grief.
I am so sorry. Please know that all of you are in our thoughts and prayers.

[Barbara]

Hi SK8R. I had logged out and when the forum came back up I saw you so popped back in. By all means do pray for the kids, their families and all their friends. I did not know either personally, but it was a shock to see the boy's photo on the news; lots of folks will know him from the grocery store, where he was indeed a very likeable guy. This place was quite a zoo that day, as I'm sure you all experienced when that poor woman was murdered. The preliminary reports were so sketchy, and the level of official activity very immediate and extremely high-intensity, that the rumors were way out there and flying. No matter what information eventually comes out, it will all be terribly painful for the people directly affected. And nobody will ever know all of it except the kids who aren't here anymore. Thank you for your gracious remarks about our community, and your prayers.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

[brim]

quote:Originally posted by Sunny

That is the most "holier-than-thou" post I have ever read. Even Brim wouldn't write something like this.


Hey, leave me out of this. I don't see anything wrong with what she posted...I believe 'why would kids do this' is a rhetorical question, and if it's not, then the answer is 'natural selection'.

[boomertsfx]

You're a genius, Sunny!

[sunnydog]

I'm seriously going to have to change my login name now.

[gammonbabe]

This was not meant as a holier than thou post.

I see so many parents that go crazy when their daughters start dating. They try to lock them up, they set irrational rules, they do everything in their power to lose their children.

My post was meant to remind people to think well about the reasons they do what they do. Not everyone will put the same importance on certain issues that I do, and for some probably the dating thing will be a more important battle then the grades or whatever. I don't expect them to, I tried to give examples.

Maybe the post was not well written and did not express what I was trying to state. That is possible. But I have never been known as holier than thou, just the opposite, I am the unholy. :P

So for those that feel offended, I apologize. I hope some people understand what I was trying to express.

Marianne

[latka]

I have a problem with your post. Your assumption that her parents were irrational in their disapproval of the relationship is speculation. You don't have the facts. Could it be that the boy was possessive or violent? Maybe they were trying to protect her. Barbara is right, we will never know for sure what the circumstances were behind these tragic deaths. To even suggest her parents are to blame is cruel. Seems to me they had a good reason to be afraid for their daughter.
quote:Originally posted by gammonbabe

Why would kids do this?

http://inetdocs.loudoun.gov/sheriff/docs/newsreleases_/010405newinform/office2k/office2k.htm

I have a teenage daughter. She is dating, and her current interest is someone I don't approve of. Am I going to tell her she can't see him? No, and for a number of reasons:

1. Teenagers are not rational. See the above article.
2. If I tell her she can't see him I make him all the more desireable.
3. I would basically force her to lie to me, because I remember how a teenager thinks and she would find ways to see him.
4. She is pretty smart for a kid. Sooner or later she will figure it out and lose him.

I pick my battle. I don't pick battles that are not important, and I don't pick battles where everyone will loose. I pick the ones where I can influence something that is important to me and to my daughter.

Marianne

[Carol Al-Ajroush]

Marianne,

I think you wrote very eloquently and at least I understand your view completely. It's too bad some folks reading your post do not understand that you are commenting on YOUR OWN feelings and YOUR OWN situation and not specifically what has happened recently.

I realize how lucky I was while raising my son and making it so smoothly and calmly through the teenage years and do not envy anyone raising a boy or girl through the teenage years now with the challenges and issues we are facing today.

[Sunny]

Okay let me clarify. This tragedy has saddened my family very much. It seemed to me that Marianne had written that she would not forbid her teenager to date someone because she knows that this kind of thing could happen. Am I the only one that read that?
Marianne- I hope that's not what you meant. It seemed to me that you laid the blame squarely on the parents alleged disapproval.
I think that this forum could be a good place to talk about how to approach difficult subjects with teens. Sorry if I was flippant.

[gammonbabe]

quote:Originally posted by Sunny

Okay let me clarify. This tragedy has saddened my family very much. It seemed to me that Marianne had written that she would not forbid her teenager to date someone because she knows that this kind of thing could happen. Am I the only one that read that?
Marianne- I hope that's not what you meant. It seemed to me that you laid the blame squarely on the parents alleged disapproval.
I think that this forum could be a good place to talk about how to approach difficult subjects with teens. Sorry if I was flippant.


I wouldn't know who is to blame. This is a horrible tragedy, and I'm sure there will be plenty of blame to go around, making it worse. To me this was a reminder of how fragile our children are at this age. I feel I am doing the right thing, but do I know for sure? Absolutely not, who knows for sure what the right thing would be.

I asked my daughter how she felt about what happened. She said it was a "Romeo and Juliet" thing. So of course my next question was "Do you think it was romantic?" And to my relief she answered "No, it was a stupid stupid thing to do."

I was so afraid that she would see it as the "romantic" thing to do. Oh they loved each other so much, they rather died then be parted. I think my post was meant more to help me deal with my fears then anything else. Because as I said above ... even though I think I am doing the right thing, and that my daughter and I have great communication and trust, I will never know what is going on in her head. I wished I did. I want to be a mindreader, just to make sure she is safe ... anyone have any tips on that? :)

Marianne
(ranting a bit)

[Mearen]

So if we don't teach our children how to make responsible decisions, who's fault is that?

[Pats_fan]

Why does fault need to be assigned?

Does anyone else see this thread going down the same path to ugliness that the "Tragic Story" one did? See http://www.hoa.broadlands.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=778

[boomertsfx]

Nobody is assigning fault... I didn't see anything wrong with Marianne's initial post either... I think some people misunderstood it...

[Dutchml]

quote:Originally posted by Mearen

So if we don't teach our children how to make responsible decisions, who's fault is that?


...and if we don't teach our children how not to be pious, heartless, insensitive and judgemental, whose fault is that?

[latka]

You can never keep you kids completly safe. All you can do is love then enough to set limits and stick with them, teach them that doing the right thing rather than the easy or instantly gratifying thing results in lasting satisfaction, treat them with respect, value honesty and kindness, model a loving marriage, and show them they are important by investing time with them.

[SoxFan]

Having a couple of really close friends raising teenagers...I've learned a couple of things. They are people, that make their own decisions, and not always the right ones. Both friends are good Christian families. Not over protective but not to loose. They are in different states but the problem was hooking up with the wrong crowds. You can teach your kids all the values and morals and everything that is right...sometimes...it still doesn't help. Both of these parents have spent hours and hours looking for the children at night and well into the morning. Once that child walks out the door...all you can really do is pray that they will make the right decisions. You can't make them for them. I've also learned you can't even keep them locked up. Trust me...my one friend nailed the windows shut in the bedroom and they still got out.

The truely sad thing is the loss of life for these two kids. The real blame is on them. They both are the ones that were selfish and left all those in their lives here to blame themselves and feel guilty.

I'm only writing all this because...until experiencing this stuff w/my friends...I would've believed it was a lack of parenting...my eyes are certainly opened now. The kids made their choices...very bad ones. Be thankful that our kids aren't making those choices. Once your child starts down that dark path...it gets harder and harder to bring them back. Even the most loving, caring parents in the world are suffering from this kind of stuff.

[SK8R]

Soxfan, excellent comments.
Parents do need to set a good example and kids need a solid ground so when they get hit with these sort of decisions with their friends and boy/girl friends, they have something in the back of their mind to fall back on. Friends get weird.

Trust, accountability and reliability are equally important for parent and teen.

It baffles my mind to try and figure out why this happened.

No, we cannot follow our teenagers around but we can start teaching them (by example in everyday life) at an early age about accountability and self control. Then you just hope and pray. Yes, they will make some little mistakes, hopefully they will become adults without too much damage to self..

I am juuuuust wondering here... just a thought, perhaps the girl was pregnant? She was only 15. Maybe she was afraid to face her parents that were against her dating this guy that is "too old" (19) for her.

My daughters were not allowed to date until 17 and we had to approve of the guy as well... and boy did the guy get "the speech" even if he was taking her to the local Subway for a sandwich.

This is just such a sad story. It breaks my heart that something, maybe a small issue, unraveled.
Our teens (everyones) think we (parents) are annoying but they do not want to disappoint us, really. They secretly love us and they want our support and love, unconditionally. But remember, who is the boss? We are.
Sorry for the rambling... I am still just so in shock.... I have many good wonderful friends that live in SR and they are just devastated with this horrific tragedy.