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HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses? (merged)

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by frostsh, May 6, 2008.

  1. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    You know since the HOA is not very clear on this or has a point other then the county rules mostly, perhaps it is a county issue and like you say have the county define what they mean by traffic. That seems to be the fairest way to deal with this instead of trying to enact some kind of even more potentially confusing rules. Perhaps at the next HOA meeting on this you could bring the county people into the meeting to clarify their rules. :)
     
  2. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    Now Now thepea say nice things about Van Metre if you ever want to gain control of the HOA board :devil2::devil2:
     
  3. lilpea

    lilpea Member

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    what's a matter with a little truth? We all know it will be a cold day in hell before Van Metre ever turns over the BHOA and their CASH COW the SW HOA...just so happens some of the residents here have been upgraded to VIP seats in the Van Metre controlled hell.
     
  4. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    I believe frequency is important to distinguish the difference between the occasional get together or flat out using your home for other uses. People may gripe about someone's guests parking for a party - but that party is not going to happen all that often. Everyone is going to be inconvenienced at some time or another - it's a fact of life and neighbors. But there is a big difference between the occasional and the persistent.

    The number of children comes up (by others) simply because its a direct tie to how many people are coming and going from the house. They feel if they limit the # of children, they in turn limit the external trips to the house. It's simply a matter of what do you look at controlling - the source or the effect? I think controlling the EFFECT is what matters, as that is what is affecting your neighbors anyways.

    It's like noise controls. Do you limit WHAT people play, or what the effect is on others? You regulate the effect, not the source.

    I don't understand the relevance of a VDOT street or not. The HOA regulates plenty of things it does not own itself. The intent of many HOA rules is not to control what they do not own - but to control the EFFECT that something has on the surroundings and community.

    What is the purpose of having restrictions on the color of your shutters? The HOA doesn't own them; the HOA board members have no real preference to Blue vs Red vs whatever. So why are there rules? To control the EFFECTS that can be caused by what owner does with their own things on the rest of the community.

    The HOA has no right, nor place, to say what you can or can not do in the privacy of your home. However, if those things start affecting the community in some way, then it starts becoming an area of interest. In most cases, county and state laws provide amble protection and limitations ahead of the HOA, so there is little reason to play in those areas.

    Oh I don't know.. limits on kind of vehicles you are allowed to park in your own driveway? Oh wait.. that already exists! :devil2:

    I think people are getting too focused on short-sighted things. 'limiting cars' - but if the limits are so high that you'd never possibly be affected, why would you freak out about 'limiting cars'?

    It's like the law about carrying money in and out of the country. If you were to apply the same fears being followed here - people should be wigging out.. 'OMG.. why does the government need to know how much money I have in my pocket just because I'm on a plane!' - but the limit is $10,000 dollars. Way more then 'regular' people ever have on themselves in normal life on a plane. So they don't care about the regulation because common sense says it will never affect them outside the scope of the intended regulation.

    To take a number.. and say if you lived on a pipesteam - and have a guideline saying you should not be allowed to host activities that would bring an additional 500 car trips per month, on a recurring basis.

    Why would you freak out that it's going to affect your social life? How are you possibly going to bring that many car trips on a recurring basis?

    This is why it's all just a matter of how rules are focused - to ensure they affect the intended target. No one is stupid enough (much agrin to some people's theories) to write a rule that would possibly limit you from having friends over for dinner. The scales are just orders of magnitude in difference.
     
  5. lilpea

    lilpea Member

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    I think we both agree on this point - it is the effect & the affect on the neighbors/community that is really the heart of this topic.


    Broadlands is NOT a private/gated community and the majority of the streets are VDOT - as such they are public and open to traffic. Some folks have the mind set -"heck its a public road and traffic is traffic"
    In this case it would go before the ARB board to review and enforce the visual ethetics of the community - if a resident appeals the decision rendered by the ARB then HOA Board reviews.

    Actually you can get an exemption on this from the IRS & DOS - as we did during our adoption and many parent need this when they travel to various international counties as well.

    LOL - because I am chick and I voice my opinion...I am freaking out, OMG that made me laugh.:pofl:Sorry to stir the pot with a cheap shot....but I couldn't help myself.

    back to my point - No such number has been determined by our HOA, lack of knowledge will often bring fear or concern. We bought a SFH because we are very social, we both have HUGE famalies and we like to party. Living in our former town home limited parking options, thus our really big driveway. In most cases our guest park in there (at one time we fit 7+ cars) or spill over to the public street.
    As a homeowner I have concerns and I am not "freaking out" just voicing my concerns...[/quote]

    I agree, however if the rules are written after the fact and in such a manner that a home based business (such as a day care) could lose business, I think that should be carefully considered with the goal of making all parties happy otherwise our HOA has opened itself up to a pretty nasty egal battle, case in point Lansdowne.

    This whole topic has gotten pretty nasty, the reality is not everyone is going to be happy with the decision, but I know the resident HOA members will listen to who ever shows up at a meeting to voice (not freaking out) their concerns.
     
  6. hornerjo

    hornerjo Senior Member

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    You're welcome. :violin:
     
  7. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    I have already received an "infraction" for calling Gryphon a made up word. Not that another wouldn't be merited. But I doubt Gryphon could handle the "language" I could use, he seems a tad bit sensitive to me based on his posts. I certainly wouldn't want him to block me! :bigeek:

    I am mostly staying out of this one as I can see both sides of this dispute for those who live on Fern Brook.

    Everyone else who is spouting this nonsense and drivel about telecommuting and OCCASSIONAL events should just post in the "hospital thread" where most posts are ignored anyhow. ;)
     
  8. hornerjo

    hornerjo Senior Member

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    I'm curious to what the supporters of the business see as to what would be excessive traffic on the street that would merit the HOA getting involved.

    24 cars trips a day, 5 days a week = 120 trips.

    Is that ok then if it was your neighbor? Yes? Ok, now what about if 2 more day care businesses opened up on the street. Would 240 more car trips on your street bother you? Would you care if there was a line of 30 cars on your street every morning at 8am?
     
  9. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    But this is not through traffic that grew on its own. This is traffic essentially brought into the street for a specific hosted activity. That is the essential point. This isn't general traffic - this is traffic CREATED by the specific activity. The traffic is not going up by random factors - its being created specifically by an activity. An activity being operated within the scope of the HOA's bounds.

    No - that's the process. The point is why is there a rule about the shutter in the first place at all?? Because its an example where the HOA is enforcing rules on what is property the HOA does not own to control the effect homeowner actions have on the community.

    The HOA enacts controls on resident behavior to control the effect of resident behavior on others - in the spirit of the common good.

    But what does that have to do with the discussion? The point is 99.9% of people traveling have nothing to fear about the government passing rules on how much money you can carry. Why? Because the rules are created to not apply to what are considered mainstream, daily practices. There is no need to go scream its the end of capitalism because the government wants to control my pocket when I travel - because the scope of the law when one actually LOOKS at it is reasonable and targets specific types of use. Not all use carteblanc.

    Well that is why there should be discussion - not chicken little 'the sky is falling' and the HOA is going to take my computer or friends away :)

    Landsdowne is completely different - they were granted permission and then had it revoked without the rules really being changed. The HOA has authority to change the rules and as far as I know - there is no requirement of grandfathering. Landsdowne is much more of a 'we changed our mind' situation. They screwed themselves by not sticking to their own policies and rules. This situation is entirely different.
     
  10. lilpea

    lilpea Member

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    Don't know why you brought it into your analogy in the first place per your post # 344.

    I was speaking from our recent trip to korea that required us to travel with a very large sum of cash and pointing out that what you stated was not an absolute.

    Homeowners (like myself ) voice concerns about the potential of new guidelines and what impact it may have on them - it should not be precieved as mass hysteria...to do other wise is petty and more cyber bullying.

    I don't have a dog in the hunt of the current day care issue - I can empathize with both sides of the issue. However as a homeowners we do have the right to an opinion of new guidelines.

    I also would be curious what a civil rights lawyer may say about the potential violation of our "constitutional right of assembly" being infringed on due to the new guidelines - even if we are in the scope of Lo guidelines and Vdot guidelines - I'm just putting it out there - if this was part of the by-laws when we signed our HOA Docs at settlement - than sure no big deal.
     
  11. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    gryph - can you point me to the exact post that revealed this? Thanks.
     
  12. eam

    eam New Member

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    #271
     
  13. eam

    eam New Member

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    Uh oh, I answered the question for him - BUT we do NOT share an account, or live in the same house! :scaredeyes:
     
  14. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    LOL...thank you!
     
  15. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    Um, just for clarification, KTdid (as everyone has covered ad nauseum had you bothered to read the thread)...Gryphon's assumptions were completely wrong as usual...there are FOUR people who post in this house.

    We had obtained prior approval with the Admins to have two separate accounts for the four people who post. Because there are several computers throughout the house, occasionally we post under whichever account is logged in.

    So much to Gryphon's chagrin, there is no grand conspiracy. I will continue to irritate you and you can seek help with your emotional control from the Calm one ;)
     
  16. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    My, my...why so defensive? Anyway, I don't care what your motivations are, just glad you have the Calm One to help keep your emotions in check - which is obviously not reflected in your current post.:rolleyes3: Take a chill pill;)
     
  17. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    Ha ha, he has his work cut out for him, KTdid, that's for sure. Not defensive, actually, more amused at how you, Gryphon and Lee act like little school girls sometimes snickering and obsessed over the latest conspiracy theory. It's Friday and I am heading to the pool, so I have taken many chill pills. Have a good weekend, KT!
     
  18. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    LOL. You too! And stay away from the deep end;) Oh you're already in deep - sorry.
     
  19. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    Point well-taken, KTDid! Best to you and your family--enjoy the sunshine. Perhaps we should let the bright minds get back to solving community issues.
     
  20. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    KTdid, I guess the benefit of having multiple accounts is that you can choose one on-line personality for some posts and a different personality for others. Also, until the Silence and Celebrate accounts outed themselves as the same person by responding from one of account to a post made from the other account, forum members had no idea that they were the same person. If deceit was not intended, I wonder why the Silence and Celebrate accounts never indicated that they were the same person or, as they now assert, that they are four people sharing two accounts!?!

    Thanks, eam!

    This is not necessarily true. For example, 6 children all from the same family could arrive in one 7-passenger SUV or minivan. Coming from a large family, I know that well! So, limiting the number of kids is not necessarily an appropriate solution.

    Once again, thepea2001, you are the voice of wisdom! THANK YOU!
     

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