School Mess

What is going on with the school system???? One there is not a chance in hell a high school can be built in one year under the best of conditions much less under these. What I see is the school system throwing away money and not addressing the issues confronting them properly.
If they think they can get this school built in a year they are being fed a line by greedy contractors and just wait to see the cost over runs if they try to fast track this under these circumstances.

They are spending our tax dollars on this mess and will keep doing so as long as they think they have a blank check. What happened to win win instead of everyone one around here trying to force their wishes and ideas upon others when their are alternatives.

I am glad my kids have graduated from the mess of a school system that thinks they can do whatever they want and think they will get what ever money they want no matter what they do. The kids are going to suffer big time under these circumstances. The school system needs stability. Just think if they don't win in court the bigger mess this is going to be. I am very disappointed in the way the school system is wasting our tax dollars under the pretense of making it better for the children.

What year will we see county wide stability in our school system?????

(Created: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:17 PM EDT)




The county's two next high schools, in Purcellville and Leesburg, await court action before the construction process can begin.

In western Loudoun, the school system is awaiting county approval of site plans for the proposed Woodgrove High School to be built on the county's Fields Farm property north of Purcellville. The site plan is needed before the school can be put out for bid to construction contractors. School Board Chairman Robert F. DuPree (Dulles) said Tuesday that approval is expected imminently.

However, there are two pending court cases that could delay the construction or thwart the project altogether.

School board members continue to pressure the Purcellville Town Council to drop its litigation challenging the county's authority to build a high school on the property. Town leaders argue that the school system and the county are circumventing planning and zoning rules that could set a precedent for other developers with land north of town. While school board members are working to blame the town for overcrowding at Loudoun Valley High School because of construction delays, the town council had warned about its concerns for several years while urging the school board to select a different location for the facility.

"As of today, the litigation has not delayed the construction of the high school," said Thomas Reed (At Large) Tuesday night. However, an extended legal battle could make it difficult to meet the planned January 2009 opening date. If that schedule slips, Reed said there would be a series of community meetings to discuss options including dividing Loudoun Valley into double shifts and moving some students to other schools through boundary line adjustments.

Bob Onheiser (Broad Run) was less optimistic, noting that it is unlikely to have construction completed in one year, even under the anticipated accelerated construction contract.

"I think it is more probable that we'll have a boundary adjustment than we'll go on shifts," he said. Onheiser said that he experienced double shifts-when some students attend classes in the morning and others in the afternoon- while a student in Florida. "I would never vote for shifts."

DuPree put the blame on Purcellville, saying the best way to solve overcrowding is to make the litigation goes away. "Litigation will be the big stumbling block," he said.

In Leesburg, the school system has not completed condemnation for the high school site north of Ida Lee Park. Assistant Superintendent for Planning & Legislative Service Sam C. Adamo Monday told the Leesburg Town Council that a January court date is planned for the eminent domain case. School planners also are evaluating environmental concerns on the property, including its location adjacent to the county's only certified trout stream. A portion of the O'Connor property, the site is on the west side of North King Street, north of Ida Lee Park and east of Morven Park.

The new Leesburg high school is scheduled to open in two years and to include a 200-seat magnet academy.




Reader Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of Leesburg Today.
Total Comments: 7 comment(s) Bill Druhan wrote on Oct 2, 2007 2:06 PM:
" This quagmire alone is ample justification why none, that’s right NONE of these individuals should never be elected to public office let alone re-election to the school board. These people are a total embarrassment to Loudoun County. As Chairman of the Finance, Construction, and Site Acquisition Committee Ms Godfrey was instrumental in choosing these two sites. She claims in her re-election material we should “vote for proven leadership” because “she has removed soda from the high school and increased fresh fruits and vegetables in the school lunch program”. You have got to be frickin’ kidding me! It is time to clean house! In the west, lets start with Jennifer Keller Bergel and John Feegel; you folks in the east it’s up to you to do your part on November 6th! "

Lee_S_Burger wrote on Oct 2, 2007 12:24 AM:
" Let's cut to chase, Mark Nuzzaco the Waffle King can not be trusted. The entire School Board excluding Bob Onheiser can not be trusted. Look what they have done with Sycolin Creek. First they move a neighborhood across the street out of their neighborhood school. Then the all knowing Sam Adamo misses his enrollment projection by over 20% at Sycolin. Now the Waffle King is asking for volunteers to change teachers after a month of school because now they need to add more teachers! Great leadership, Nuzzaco way to watch out for our children. This should not be disruptive for our first graders, right Mark? Remember they can handle it as you said at a meeting!!!! We warned Dupree and the "Lap Dogs" this would happen and our plea fell on deaf ears? Why was Evergreen protected from the failed Catoctin AYP students. Out of 32 students only 2 failed the test and left. Where did those kids go? Sycolin Creek! Heck, only six even took the test. The others just wanted off the sinking ship. Hey Waffel King why do we have overflow students in Leesburg? Because you waffled and kept Cool Springs, Tolbert and FH Reid over capacity because you did not have a backbone to stand up to those communites and pull trigger and move them! On November 6th I will not be scared to pull the trigger on the voting machine and I will pull it for Jennifer Bergel. This November Lee S. Burger will be voting for Jennifer Bergel on November 6th! BURGER FOR BERGEL! "

sarah s wrote on Oct 1, 2007 2:32 AM:
" This just in: Did you know, the County could begin evaluating the County-owned 94-acre Lovettsville Park as a school site TODAY? Yes, if the adjacent 156-acre Miller parcel were acquired and traded for the Park, a high school could be sited on the original Park. The County's Attorney has determined the bond funding restriction to use Lovettsville Park for schools before 2015 doesn’t apply with a total land swap. So...why wait? Let’s get started on the most logical and fastest Plan B that exists. A Lovettsville-area HS-3 has the support of hundreds of Loudoun citizens from Lovettsville to Purcellville and beyond. This land swap was even proposed by LCPS for HS-10. So why not initiate the contingency plan for these kids that we have been begging for? We don't want to wait for lawsuits to settle and have our children bussed far from home. We aren’t keen on the Board voting to take the $75M risk of building on Fields Farm with lawsuits outstanding. If miracles happen and all lawsuits settle, build both high schools in Lovettsville and Round Hill and save $12+M (like Freedom and Briar Woods HSs). Arguably, two new high school clusters will be needed in the west by ~2013 anyway. But wait, Catoctin School Board member Nuzzaco told me on 9/25/07 that Mr. Miller isn't a willing seller. I understand over a year ago Mr. Miller wasn't interested in LCPS' (insincere?) low-ball offer (far below appraised value); and, LCPS staff have not asked him since if he is interested. Searching for solutions, Catoctin candidate Bergel did inquire and, in fact, Mr. Miller expressed willingness to negotiate. Meanwhile, LCPS is poised to purchase another western Loudoun parcel for MS-10 which is now under contract for $4M, a price many believe is more than the market value for 104 acres in Wheatland. This assertion that Mr. Miller isn't a willing seller represents ANOTHER half truth voiced by our current School Board. Let's vote-in new School Board members willing to extract the whole truth and communicate to the public accordingly and who support community-based schools. I support the Broad Run member Ohneiser because he offers helpful tangible suggestions to citizens, independent of their District on a variety of issues. I will miss the compassionate Leesburg member Smith who has tirelessly advocated for our children and the most valuable resource we have, the hard-working teachers of LCPS. However, I remain unsure of the others. I urge Loudoun citizens to VOTE on Nov 6 for new faces on the School Board who will advocate for all Loudoun children equally. So while LCPS’ Plan A for HS-3 languishes through the legal system on the multiple lawsuits filed, we ask our leaders to put the children first and immediately advance on Plan B. That is, move forward with haste on HS-3 at the Lovettsville Park to reduce the possibility of bussing our children far from home. Give Round Hill families the choice of Lovettsville or continue with an intermediate school solution until the happy day lawsuits settle and they can finally get the high school they need. "

sarah s wrote on Sep 29, 2007 1:18 AM:
" It is my understanding that as of this Wed Sep 24 at 10am the County Building Department is STILL waiting for the School System to resubmit the revised site plan for HS-3 at Fields Farm. The County Building Dept gave the school system their 3rd set of comments in AUGUST and the school system still hasn't responded. So how can Chairman Dupree have any credibility when he says the day before that site plan approval is "expected imminently"? Sir, why not tell us the whole truth, let me help you...something like "We are working diligently on responding to comments we have recieved from the County with respect to open space requirements (or whatever the comments are about), we anticipate responding to comments next week and are optimistic to receive approval soon thereafter." Mr. Dupree it isn't hard to do, please just tell us what we want to know, not a half truth comprised of only the part that you want us to know. Kevin Turner is a respectable option in the Dulles District. "

School Board Fan wrote on Sep 28, 2007 9:16 PM:
" So who are we to believe? Is it Reed who says, "As of today, the litigation has not delayed the construction of the high school," Or is it Dupree who says, "Litigation will be the big stumbling block,"? This fan must agree with anne land. It is time for the school board to stop playing politics and build the school where it is wanted and where it is needed. geenstone hollow understands that many memebers of the this board will say and do anything to get re-elected. We citizens have seen this in the Catoctin District board member last January. He told this newspaper and the citizens of Loudoun one thing and did another. He lied to all of us in order to secure the votes of the citizens living west of route 15. The entire school board excluding Bob Onheiser backed him with thier vote after reversing themselves from a vote taken a month ealier. Citizen of Loudoun. You have the power and a voice. Make a change with you vote this November. Elect candidates that stand on principle and will not lie to you or us. No more strong armed politics from the school board. Hi Robert. "

greenstone hollow wrote on Sep 28, 2007 7:34 AM:
" Although the current reason for the delay may not be the pending litigation, the controversy around this particular site IS the reason for the delay. If Assad or Franklin Park or Miller (any of the other 3) had been selected, the chances are infinitely less that we would be where we are today. For any of the school board members to say it isn't going to be later (beyond January '09) is ridiculous and just politically-based. "

anne land wrote on Sep 28, 2007 1:22 AM:
" If anyone should drop their lawsuits and admit they made a huge mistake, I think it should be the County. Enough is enough - give it up and do something for the kids. You blame Purcellville but the blame lies with County's strong arm tactics used for years, and continues being used now. Build at Franklin Park. The County owns the land and Round Hill has offered water and sewer. LCPS considered trading Lovettsville Park for HS-10, why not trade Franklin Park for Fields Farm? Unfortunately, it is clear no one is going to drop their lawsuits anytime soon and the lawsuits will drag on for years. The School Board lies when they say Fields Farm is the fastest track now, that is unless they vote to build it and take the risk they are going to win. From the looks of everything now, Franklin Park or the Lovettsville area are infinitely faster tracks. So School Board, get moving and do something! "

 

So run for the School Board if you have a problem with the way things are run.

Note to Admins - should this be moved to the Politics Forum?

 

If I had kids in school I might.

I am just concerned the they are making bad decisions on the building of the new schools. Being in the construction business many times when you speed things up it leads to waste and delays and we have a school system that thinks it has unlimited funds. Contractors will have a field day for extras if the building of these new schools don't go as planned because of the haste. We as taxpayers will make up the difference Certainly not from the high saleries and benefits the school administrators get especially at the top that make these decisions. Number one unspoken rule rule in construction is contractors and sub contractors have a field day when things get speed up in cost over runs. They live for those kind of situations and sometimes make more money off the problems then they do in the original contract. Sad but almost always true. Another reason they will low ball the original bid knowing full well they will more then make up for it in extras.

I know this all too well first hand. So when I read articles like this, the school system is setting itself up for major cost over runs. We as tax payers will have to pay. We will watch these school projects closely.

Lee j

 

OK, I am confused here. I recently read an article that explained that Loudoun was able to fast track school building because they have a standardized design and list of building materials. The only thing that was really "bid on" was the labor and time frame. I think that part of the standard bid package is also an incentive for early/on time completion (in budget) but penalties for late completion/over budget.

So it makes no sense for contractors and subs to dork around int he proposals & bids. They have very narrow constraints within which to work.

 

Steve the interest started with a bigger picture of Loudoun in general. Mainly the mistakes happening with the total picture of fast growth. The obvious ones such as roads and of course my own special thing about development being both beautiful and good neighbors.

The school attracted me last spring when I saw this enormous budget and what are we exactly getting for it.

Of course my interest in design and function which leads to what fast tracking a school is really all about.

What lost opportunities are missing in this haste to just get schools built is another of my concerns.

I see developments all over the country and the world and see the pros and cons that come with fast growth and how many areas handle it some with great success some with failure and some just mediocre.

I love loudoun and just see so many lost opportunities that happen from developers just doing anything to make a buck without concern for the future and their neighbors. Engineers because of the proliferation of new regulations are now controlling more of the growth of Loudoun then the designers and architects. Let me tell you there are two kinds of Architects the best being design and function and environmentally oriented and the other just a glorified draftsperson carrying out orders from developers and engineers.

Having said that I have been reading articles of late that has me concerned about the cost of our school infrastructure and are we getting our monies worth and are we getting the latest and greatest in design and functionality. Or we just going on a binge with the consequences coming down several years from now.

My biggest concern is moving children around from school to school and the budget. Personally I don't know why it appears every year we have this problem when adding to some of the schools to keep kids in their own neighborhoods might be another way to go.

As far as an answer to Kaos dad being in the building business all that stuff about being on budget and on time very rarely meets reality. Maybe I could be wrong in this case. I do know building contractors live for change orders and problems they create, many a time they make more off the that then the original contract. Contracts always have contingencies in them and rarely does a project go as planned. There are always mistakes and problems in the construction documents which can lead to delays and cost over runs. A lot of small problems can add up to big bucks for the contractors.

Lee j

 

OK everyone all I was speaking about was the actual construction of the schools and the money spent and are we getting our monies worth and are we missing opportunities in the design and function of the actual school buildings using the fast track method which can be full of potential problems for construction and design.

I have no idea how the actual education of our children education got into this discussion.

I only mentioned about some of the children moving from school to school and I would personally not want that for my kids if they were starting school here and most likely if I thought they would be moved I would look at other alternatives. It was not an attack on the actual education the Loudoun schools gives our children.

I have heard the actual education of our children in the loudoun school system is right on top. I have heard home schooling can also be top notch and have a cousin home schooling her children and they are doing extremely well.

Lee j

 

It is not a mandatory requirement to have children to be on the School Board.

I am not sure what you hope to accomplish by posting your complaints to this forum. Get involved and make a difference if it is a concern to you. If you won't run for the Board then attend their meetings. They are conveniently held at the Administration Building in Broadlands. I know that they allot time for public comments at their meetings and I am sure they would love to address your concerns in person.

 

My concern mainly, since my kids are in College is the construction of the school infrastructure and are we getting our monies worth are the buildings being designed as the state of the art and will there be cost over runs in the fast track system. Speed in construction usually ends up in cost over runs and many times problems that haunt the buildings for many years into the future. Not saying that is the case here, but these are the problems that many times come up in the fast track system.

As far as this forum goes it has been effective in getting several meetings behind the scenes and off these boards in addressing the potential and problems that have occurred in Loudoun County development. I am in the beginning of a dialog right now with a developer that had it's beginnings right here on these forums. Many of you would be surprised who lurks here. These forums are more powerful then many of you might think.

Lee j

 

I understand your concern Lee.

Guess the simple way to know if there are problems with these fast track schools is to check if the last few schools had cost overruns? Anyone know?

 

I know the problem Lee has with the new schools.... They look a lot like the Flex Buildings off Red Rum Drive. Oh the horror!

 

I did not think of that but now that you have brought it up. Yes they do look a bit like flex buildings or prisons. Even more reason to think about the design even more. Red rum drive is not the only place the flex is invading. It was brought up last night we are not building enough class a office and way too many industrial and flex and strip centers. Too many of this and you start to get a negative effect from the first class businesses that might want to locate here. We have not had a major corporation announce plans to move to Loudoun in years.

Very sad, that is happening. Our major corridors are starting to overflow with non quality buildings and except the rt 7 corridor. With the high cost of living and not enough first class companies, we are making this county a undesirable place to work and eventually live.

We are killing the golden goose.

Lee j

 

The only one that is somewhat empty is at the dulles town center. Trex the deck people actually leased a good part of that building and still holds the lease the only problem their people refused to move here citing the high cost of living.

I don't know of much class A space that is for lease. Verizon will certainly not sub lease their buildings. Other then that most of what you see is not class A that is empty. Landsdowne is full of class A mostly leased in a great park like environment. So where is this space you talk of????? A lot of the building around waxpool is flex and industrial and is not making it attractive for class A developers to put up stand alone buildings there. The mega urban centers hopefully will be a city within a city such as One Loudoun and all Class A. The Waxpool area is being ruined for class A building by the flex people. AOL is on the way out and Verizon is feeling it's way and not sure what they are going to do. SO what is left??

Lee j

 

For what it's worth, there is an election this year, and our current School Board member, Robert Dupree, is being challenged by Kevin Turner http://www.kevinturner4dulles.com/.

 

Joy, one question I have about Mr. Turner: given the amount of IBM products in use in the system, and his job selling IBM educational materials, what votes will he have to recuse from, if any? That might be a real headache for him during the budget process.

I can't question his personal experience with the classroom side of things because his kids aren't old enough to attend school yet, but the potential conflict question is one that may deserve some examination.

On the other side of the same issue, it would be great for his resume if he can go into IBM marketing situations as a member of the school board of such a fast-growing county. Again, his IBM experience may not be such a benefit if he can't vote on some things because of it.

 

When does Mr Snow recuse himself from approving development could involve deitz down the road. Most commercial development could involve Deitz.

Interesting to say the least.

Lee j

 

Folks:

I was monitoring the school topics on the forum this morning and want to put a stop to something right now. I do not want anyone to attack my opponent personally. I am conducting a positive, facts-oriented campaign for re-election to the School Board based on my experience and effectiveness over the past five years representing Broadlands and every other part of the Dulles District. I am not a partisan, I don't endorse or attack any other candidate for any other office, and most of all I do not attack my opponent personally and do not want others to do so either. So my respectful request to everyone is let's nip this in the bud and not go there. Let's be civil. Voters can always compare our experience and effectiveness -- my website is www.robertdupreeforschoolboard.com - but let's not attack someone. If anyone has any questions, they can, as always, email me at rfdupree@aol.com. (And if anyone wants to continue the discussion of other races, they might want to do so under another topic, unrelated to schools.)

Robert

Robert DuPree
Chairman & Dulles District Representative
Loudoun County School Board
& Candidate for Re-Election, Dulles District