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A Professional Certification That Makes Sense (for now)

Discussion in 'Community Broadband & Computers' started by Kaosdad, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    All;

    In The Unsaid Thread I started a rant about how professional certifications are trumping advanced degrees when all they really prove is that you can stroke a check & pass a test. For a limited time ISACA is offering a certification based on (ready for this?) EXPERIENCE :scaredeyes:

    From now until early next year the CRISC only tests your ability to stroke a check & fill out an application. You will need someone to vouch for your experience, but, if you're like me and can't take a test to save his life, this is a god-send in this market. It's pricey, between ISACA Memebership & the application fee expect to cough up about $750.

    But, that's $750 that allows you to fill in the "Other Professionals Certifications" blank!!! :happygrin:
     
  2. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Active Member

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    Are you kidding me? 750 bucks to boot to certify that? This is mad!

     
  3. PowerPlay

    PowerPlay Member

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    I'm not sure why everyone knocks all certs? I'm not a big cert person (not in technology anymore) and I know some certs are all about passing a test, but the CISSP certification requires passing the test and a minimum amount of experience (not sure how much it is now, they keep changing it from what I understand).
     
  4. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Active Member

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    Perhaps they are in dire need of $$$? Guaranteed Revenue Stream is all I can think of...
     
  5. luftinarr

    luftinarr Member

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    Because there are some people that just can't take a multiple choice test in a time limit on a computer. Take the PMP for example. It's a 4 hour multiple choice test that I've failed miserably because 1) I've never done well with those types of tests and 2) they don't test you on real life. I've served as Deputy PM and PM on several different multi-million dollar intel community contracts and I know for certain that the answers required on the PMP are quite different then how I would answer in real life. I'm done with paying a company hundreds of dollars to try and teach me the book answers for real life. Throw me in to a contract like a pack of hungry wolves and you can be darn sure I'd come out Alpha dog. Experience is what gets people to where they are. Not certifications.

    With that being said, there are some certifications that are good to have and those are the ones dealing specifically with technology or software.

    And FWIW, I think education trumps all certifications. That's why I went back to school to get my masters. Education + experience = success
     
  6. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Active Member

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    Exactamondo! I prolly would never be able to pass these tests either but put my on a project, I'll get the work done and correctly. Experience counts more over certifications, my friend!!! Experience shows that the job can be done. How can a certification really prove that the job can be done right or not? Experience is king.
     
  7. PDILLM

    PDILLM Active Member

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    Can't agree more! The frustrating thing is there are some employers that require a cert just to get in the door. I transferred agencies and the new one required the CISSP, so I wasted a week, $75 for the book, and $500 test fee just so they could check the box stating I had that specific cert.

    I'm to the point in my life where I'm done chasing certs. I have 20+ years of a proven track record and if those successes are not enough then we're just not a good match. When I think of how much of my life and $$$ I wasted on the MCSE for NT and 2003 as well as all the various security and Cisco certs I feel sick.......
     
  8. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    You won't appreciate it until you're out of work looking for something new. IMHO there is not a cert on this planet that is worth the effort or money. The problem is that these are now being used by HR departments to early DISqualify candidates as fast as they can. And the observation was made that is absolutly correct - these certifications in NO WAY reflect reality. I personally know a CISSP that has zero, Z-E-R-0 experience int he field. But he can take a test, stroke a check and take two other CISSPs to dinner. TA-DAAAAA! The Peter Principal Proved Again!!!:happygrin:
     
  9. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    The CISSP has gone up in price. DoD 8570 has made that one of the hottest certifications in the DC area. I got it just to get the check box "checked"; it's part of the game.

    I have stuck with the certs. I did get the MCSE back in the NT era, then have just kept getting them just to say I have them and now with the MCITP it is just another check box.

    Having said that I do think higher level certifications like Cisco's CCIE and Microsoft's MCM do provide value. I know quite a few MCMs and none of them are "paper" certs...they know their stuff.

    I also see a new trend in the last year or two with people going back to get their masters from online adult oriented schools. To me it sort of has the feel of back in the late 90's early 2000's "paper cert" era. A lot of masters degrees from online schools but not sure what the people are learning (especially on the technical tracks).

    I'm mainly a Microsoft AD guy and when we bring people in for an interview we could care less what certs or degrees they have but we have a hard interview process and they have to pass the technical screen (especially for 6 figure jobs). Microsoft does a similar thing (what they call "finals day")

    Experience is also relative in my opinion, it depends what the experience is. I'm in the middle of the age range in IT (I'm 36). I see guys 26-30 that trump guys in their 50's with all the experience. Sadly when I see that it is not because the older guys are not smart but honestly they haven't kept up in many cases. It is a never ending learning cycle.
     
  10. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    ...or more importantly... someone's responsibilities at their job.

    All too often we get people claiming to be an 'IT Admin' and we find out all they really did was M/A/C and password resets on a design someone else made, and someone else maintained. We've had people claim 5-10 years experience and they've never done more then minor tasks because their world is so compartmentalized.

    I always drill people on what specific tasks they did day to day and what responsibility they had. I then ask them what support network they had around them, and then ask again how their responsibilities differ from what they said they did themselves. All too often I get to the point where the person claims scope over what is really done by everyone else.
     
  11. Brassy

    Brassy Hiyah

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    Koas was great at charging his minions to get there cerets - all paid by the company. Sadly, as a VP, kaos's Boss never suggested anything like that, and that boss was a CTO. Koas and his tech team would interview separately the new job aps, sent by the headhunter. Many who siad they ahd the MCSE, couldn't even answer simple questions by his knowledgeable staff.

    Yep he realize's it's all part of the game now, and he hates that fact - especaily with his degree a joint biz and info sys, and his master is in info sys science. Guess that and a cup of coffee and life experience with computers and tech mean nothing. It's all who you know.

    Resume filters online are a frigging joke and most of them can't even handle crunching the data. People call to do phone interviews, everything appears to be good, then you never get a call back to even tell you that you are no longer in consideration - after people confrence you in and tell you they saw your resume and had to find a place for you. UGH.
     
  12. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    :happygrin:
    That's my WOMAN!
     
  13. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    The other huge factor (may trump all others) can be the security clearance. Have a TS/SCI/Poly etc and you won't be out of a job for long.

    One of the dumbest moves I made looking back on my life is coming out of the Army with a TS/SCI and not going into the workforce (I went to college). I should have gone into the workforce and gone to school part time.

    I even remember the older enlisted and officers telling me that the TS clearance could really help. This was back in the mid-90's and I grew up here in Loudoun and all I could think of was that the college degree trumped the clearance...man how wrong I was.

    One thing I find interesting now is that I find the young Marines to be really good in IT. Not knocking my Army brothers though but for those coming straight out of the military the guys from the Marines I’ve worked with have been the best.

    In terms of who you know; that is also much easier in the online world of today. You can make so many good connections through online forums, blogging, LinkedIn, twitter, etc. I deal with Microsoft technologies and they have an MVP program for top contributors and that can really get you noticed and open the door to a lot of employment opportunities.
     
  14. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    Amen, Brother MikeK!
     
  15. volvo_nut

    volvo_nut New Member

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    I took the PMP test twice and there were some unrealistic questions in both exams. I work with a retired Army O6 who received his PMP around the same time as me in '06 and his projects are in constant disarray. Just because someone has alphabet soup after his or her name, does not qualify him or her for the job. Our networking team has many MSFT and CISCO certs but they can't keep our network running efficiently nor can they help themselves from unplugging a power strip or network cable at least once a month.
     
  16. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    Once a month is way too much but that has happened to all of us at some point. I remember about 9 years ago I was logging off an NT server and I accidentally selected restart. That was the first and last time I did that :)
     
  17. luftinarr

    luftinarr Member

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    Since there are a bunch of you computer types around here, my company is looking for TS/SCI with at least a CI poly sys admins, network engineers/admins for a contract coming out in about a month. I currently need one sys admin RIGHT NOW, but that sys admin has to have TS/SCI with a full scope. I don't care what the alphabet soup says after your name as long as it has TS/SCI, FS or LS.

    And for what it's worth, the clearance tickets are almost a safety net. They won't keep you from becoming unemployed, but they the ticket to finding employment faster. Also, the salary requirements that the "entitled generation" is asking for are simply outrageous. I've never seen so many applications come across my desk asking for 6 figures right out of school. Experience people!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    You pretend to sponsor me for a clarance, and I'll pretend I still know my way around a server! :happygrin:
     
  19. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    So if someone has a TS would you all have them read in for the SCI or you are looking for people with the TS and poly already...I thought all those types were at Ft Meade :)
     
  20. luftinarr

    luftinarr Member

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    Nope, those types are all over the place. We need someone with an SCI and poly already. The work is in Chantilly for one customer and in McLean for another customer. Please refer people! I need 2 sys admins with TS/SCI, CI poly and 1 sys admin with TS/SCI, FS poly. $4,000 for each successful hire!
     

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