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Boundary meetings for new elementary schools

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by TeamDonzi, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    You are on Mr VaCliff. I will buy you dinner and drinks for you and your wife and even your kids if Clydes cost more then the school building :)

    Here is the problem the public thinks great design cost more. The truth it saves money abd gives the occupants a wonderful enviorment to work live and learn in. Most commercial Architects that design schools government buildings are not good designers just want to get the job done and be paid. Just because you are an Architect does not mean you can design or even design a beautiful cost efficient building, most do not. Great design pays for itself and even saves money. Problem in this county everyone is in a hurry and take the same old same old just because they have done it over and over into eternal boredom that people are going to look at for a century or more. That is a shame.
    California has prop 13 which is needed here.

    Lee J Buividas
     
  2. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    I will add Gerald Hines a world wide developer from Houston broke the boring glass box designs in high rise buildings of the 50's and 60's using New York City Based Philip Johnson as his Architect. That team in the seventies eighties and nineties created some of the most beautiful skyscrapers during that period and yes they were cost effective and Mr Hines was tough on his team to bring these buildings in on budget and cost effective. And started a trend in gorgeous high rises that other architects and developers found great design does pay for itself. These guys were ground breakers in design and cost which everyone many jumped on later and is still going on. Shame government architects and builders for whatever reasons make things cost a bundle and many a time inferior design. Just look at the cost of those monuments and especially the cost of the new Capital visitor center and the cost over runs and time delays. God only knows what the cost will be of the underground complex under the White House and grounds will be if ever built. Or maybe it is being done secretly since 911 :) There was alot of publicity on this 5 story under ground complex with long secret tunnels to access it before 911 nothing since. hmmmmmmmm

    Lee j
     
  3. cindyb

    cindyb New Member

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    We moved here to get our kids out of California schools and prop 13. The community had no money for new schools, the population had more than doubled between the time my husband went to school there and my kids went there but there were no additional schools built in our district in that time. The schools were way overcrowded ... 32 children in a kindergarten class with no assistant. The buildings were constantly leaking. I have a picture of buckets sitting all around a classroom collecting rainwater. Around the time we moved out of there, they were discovering huge amounts of the really sick mold in the schools, causing one to have to be torn down. My kids had no music or art in school, PE was one time a week and it was up to the classroom teacher to make up the other PE time. Because of the overcrowding, kids were overflowed to schools across town (and they didn't overflow together - whatever school had room for that child took him), and because busses were cut from the budget, if your child was overflowed you had to pay a $200 fee for bussing or drive the child yourself. Middle school and high school kids walked 2 miles to school or had to take public transportation. Right after this was decided, the public transportation did their budget cuts and cut the routes that the school kids needed to get to school.

    I know this is rambling, but even with the growing pains here, my kids are getting a much better education here with better funding from taxes (We had a 1.06% tax rate there, .03% went to the schools), than what was in CA.
     
  4. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    Cindyb that is a horrible story and exactly where were you in California???
    I can see why you wanted out of there.

    Our experience in Santa Monica was the complete opposite and my wife taught at the same school our kids attended. They had to have a teacher or aid per fifteen children and then it dropped to one per ten children. Now this was a public school a magnet school for the theater and arts. The kids had a lot interesting activities out there then what I see here and more attention was paid to the children because the ratio per teacher to children was so low. The side benefit many of the parents were in the entertainment business from the director of NYPD to Amber Tamblyn who is the star of Joan of Arcadia and many other projects and was in the same class as my oldest son, her mother taught art there and we still are friends with the family. Arnold Schwarzenegger also did a lot for the school whose office was several blocks away. There was also many less fortunate children going to school there as this school was in a city and open to all. Then more fortunate parents did a lot to help these kids and parents and we all made each other fell important no matter what. Yes this was a public school called SMASH (Santa Monica Alternate School House) There is not the diversity in this county as there was out there especially economically. and especially in the schools.

    The parents all did a lot to make the school work including financially and participation as much as they could, more then I see here. I guess that is the difference when the schools are smaller. There is more personal attention to the children.

    Another lesson for our school board perhaps smaller schools with more of a relaxed atmosphere then these gigantic cold impersonal schools, that frighten some of the little ones and makes it harder for them to feel good about themselves. You know the kids that get forgotten the marginal ones the little shy ones in these large institutions and all the moving around many must do because for ever reason no thought was put into how to keep many of these kids in their neighborhood schools. That certainly is tough on children. Believe me I know I was one of the marginal and forgotten ones in school and it was tough being a nobody.

    Of course I made up for it since I have entered the real world a zillion years ago ha ha ha.

    My point is there are many many schools around this country that work for all the kids not just the lucky ones that can shine through. We all want to be liked and loved and nothing is worse then being in a large school and feel left out. That is what happens to many kids in these mega schools and I was one of them. That is a price of growth that many kids get left out that never seems to be worked into the equation when building these sterile institutions. Seems to me all the board is so overwhelmed by the growth here they are missing some fabulous opportunities to create schools that are fun for the kids. What a shame the toll that growth is taking on many of the kids that may never blossom under these conditions. Yep we all love to talk about the ones that do well, but forget the marginal ones. I would love to see a study twenty or thirty years from now, was Loudoun suburbia a success for the people of loudoun today 30 years from now especially the children or was it too much of a good thing and not enough diversity.

    Hopefully the urbanization of Loudoun will balance this all out.
    I am loking forward to that phase in Loudouns growth and hopefully it will bring economic diversity to the county as well. I love being on the forefront of this next evolution in Loudouns growth. Goodbye suburbia soon hellooooo city!!!
    It is coming at the speed of light.

    <br><br>Lee J Buividas
     
  5. DAD4

    DAD4 New Member

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    Umm...No It's Bradjelina...
     
  6. foodie

    foodie New Member

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    Lee--

    We concur with your assessment of the Loudoun County Schools "BIG BOX" school theories. Sometimes "smaller is better" for meeting student's individual needs and learning experiences. Children need to "bloom where they are planted and learn to grow". Yeah--I know it sounds like some "flower child" wishful thinking--but overall I believe that Loudoun County schools are nurturing and well managed (from what we hear from friends in Loudoun who have their kids attending public schools.)

    When we had our kids, we decided we did not want them "bussed and moved around" from their local school district. That is why we opted for private school for our kids. Our kids do not attend private school in Loudoun; but attend an excellent school about 30-45 minutes from our home. The bus picks them up. For now, our kids are happy where they are. We may look at Loudoun Schools (public and private) at some future date. Who knows? Also the cost may be expensive but we feel the sacrifices are worth it for us.

    Lee--since you like to research "newsworthy" items--give me your opinion on GA's SPLOST (Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax) that GA passed in November 1996 for local jurisdictions to vote on yearly for needed infrastructure for schools, parks, etc. My brother and sister have their kids in private school because Gwinnett County recently built a "Taj Mahal" for their School Board. Too much "political nonsense" and overcrowding up to 1000 kids in some areas until they can build new schools. At least, Loudoun does not "have a village of trailers" like my former hometown County has for its schools. Of course, metro Atlanta is less expensive in housing, etc; but at least we have more options regarding transportation and the like. We love the Northern VA area--traffic congestion aside!

    Here is a link for you Lee--www.GADOE.org and link for SPLOST is and put SPLOST in ASK DOE search box--www.doe.k12.ga.us.

    Hopefully there will be a "happy medium" at some point. One can "dream" right? More Food for Thought--heh? No, my attention is not to inflame the masses--just curious what others ideas and thoughts are.

    Foodie
     
  7. cindyb

    cindyb New Member

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    Lee, we were in Fremont, just north of San Jose. It got really bad there when there was talk about redistricting schools. Fremont had 1 shining star high school and 6 high schools that could barely offer 2 AP courses each. Of course the Mission District houses were prime real estate because everyone wanted their kids in Mission High. When they were needing to rebalance the neighborhoods, parents were up in arms fearing their property values would fall. They weren't worried about trying to make sure all students in the city got the same education. There were parents quoted in the paper saying "my child can't drive his BMW to Irvington, he'll just embarrass the other kids." School board members were quoted saying "I know that it's best to re-do the lines and try to help the other kids in the city, but if I vote that way I'm sure to lose my seat because of the strength of the Mission district. So I'm voting to protect Mission High." Mission parents tried to send a petition around to make themselves their own school district separate from the rest of Fremont so that they could protect their lines. Their plans were to still use the Fremont school district for payroll and all that good stuff. Needless to say the petition failed.

    Here, my kids have been at Hillside, Farmwell, Eagle Ridge, Broad Run, Stone Bridge and Briar Woods. Even with the moving around, they have received an excellent education and we have not seen anything missed by being at one school over another. They have had no problems with friendships, if anything their friendship base is much larger as they still keep in touch with people from other schools.
     
  8. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    Here is the website for SMASH where my kids spent a lot of their schooling;

    http://www.smash.smmusd.org/?Home

    Excellent concept small and nuturing although it has gone through many changes from K to 12 to K to 8 is was a wonderful experience for my two boys and my wife who taught there and me because I could drop in anytime unannouced and join in. Of course thursday afternoons were beach day as the school was only a couple of blocks from the ocean. Of course I never missed that afternoon to surf with my kids and the rest of the school. :) My kids really learned to be comfortable in the ocean even when it was rough. ha ha especially knowing to recognize and know how to get out of a rip tide. Anyway I really believe this kind of school has a place in all school systems it really helps the shy and lost children as well as the ones that always shine.

    I especially like what the principle has to say especially the fact they teach the children to become life long learners. Isn't that why being on this planet and universe we all should be life long learners!! I love that statement. :) http://www.smash.smmusd.org/?Principal

    Lee j
     
  9. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Lee-
    So, I have two folks at Clyde's who have stated the restaurant cost 25-29 million. The last I saw, the price tag for the School Administration Building was 26 million.
    When's dinner? :)
     
  10. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    I don't mind buying dinner if you are right but if you think just because someone in CLydes says it cost that much, and I am supposed to believe these magical creatures??? ha ha ha ha. THere is no way that building cost 25 to 29 million dollars so when the owner and general contractor gives a figure then I will buy your whole family dinner. :) Don't forget I design restaurants and boutique hotels. I can believe the school building cost that much and it's cost is public record. We could see what the county has on it's tax rolls for Clydes as far as property and buildings. :)

    Mr Vadcliff I did not fall off a turnip truck. ha ha ha ha :pofl:

    Lee j
     
  11. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Well, the figures came from managers, but that's alright if you don't believe me.
    Does your experience also include the cost of buying the original tavern/farmhouse/barns, dissasembling them, storage, then reassembling them to make the basic frame for the new buildings? Have you seen the amount of custom woodwork that was done?
    Next time you're there, keep these things in mind as you add up the $$$$.
    To be fair, the total price tag I listed includes everything, not just the construction of the building itself. The price tag to purchase and restore the buggies and sleds alone would be a small fortune.

    Let's see, if you lived in Houston maybe it was a pecan tree???
     

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