BRMC Update & Press Release

Here's a relevant and new issue to discuss. Related to competition. Some interesting facts about Northern VA hospitals.

INOVA current has 1499 hospital beds in their system (Fairfax Hosp 656, Fair Oaks Hosp 161, Mt. Vernon Hosp 235, Alexandria Hosp 327) That doesn't include the beds from the Loudoun Hospital aquisition.

HCA Reston Hospital current has 127.

Healthcare consumers are going to get shafted if this trend continues. BRING IN MORE COMPETITION!

(hospital bed numbers based on unofficial web search, but were valided from more than one source)

 

AFGM, I agree that rehashing all these things again just because one new thing (judge's ruling) happened IS an irrelevant rant--so I decline to rehash good HCA/BAD LHC-Inova, competition, "appropriate" zoning, and so on...precisely why I didn't respond to the retread.

See my objectionable post here:
http://www.leesburg2day.com/ReadersExchange.cfm?postid=9704

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Another dodge!

We have not talked about the competitive environment when it involves the entire INOVA chain and BRMC. Competition has been talked about on its general merits and what competition meant to healthcare. We have not talked about the regional impact of the INOVA network on Loudoun County. Which by the way, I still think is a better situation than a stand alone LHI, but competition takes on a different flavor now with INOVA in the mix. You can ignore it if you want, let's hope the Supervisors don't.

I'll take it you have no logical arguement or complaint about it. I would agree it is hard to take INOVA's side when you consider these numbers. Pretty insightful into the situation we face.

 

I wouldn't consider it an objectionable post. I was pointing out your change of heart about "waving a flag against it".

I can actually see some merit in your comment, even if it is an unconvincing and a cagey attempt at muckracking.

See my objectionable post here:
http://www.leesburg2day.com/ReadersExchange.cfm?postid=9704

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
[/quote]

 

Alright Barbara, I give up. You win.
Your psycho-babble response that continues to deny the fact that you told me to not discuss your "friend" because she was dead BEFORE THERE WAS ANY MENTION of editorial comment, the fact it is okay for YOU to then make wild insinuations about another dead person, and the fact that you do not see any hypocrisy in this tells me that it's hopeless to continue.

 

AFGM..interesting numbers outlining the monopoly that Inova holds in Northern Virginia. What will the FTC do with those numbers? Could that hold up the takeover/merger...and prevent Inova from moving forward with Loudoun's CPAM?

Barbara…looks like you are waving a flag against the hospital when you pull up the South Riding SPC minutes (item C under New Business – “group discussion favored” when referring to M. Hummel’s motion to oppose HCA’s hospital in Broadlands)…
http://www.southriding.org/html/committees/showMeeting.php3?meetingId=196

Could you give us some insight as to the reasons outlined in M. Hummel's motion to oppose BRMC? Is it really because if a high school is built in Brambleton, then it will be years before South Riding gets a high school? Oops...sorry, just had a flashback. Funny...a different issue, but the same logic applies. One major difference...it's not only about South Riding and Ashburn...the SPC decision to oppose HCA has an effect on the entire county, 220,000 residents.

That was in November…anything new to report from the December or January meetings since the minutes aren’t posted yet? Is Steve Snow a member of the SPC?

 

Jeanne,

Thank you for pointing out the link. Very interesting. I've been to the South Riding website on many occasions but never ran across the information posts from the "Strategic Planning Committee".

I got curious and followed the links to the minutes of their other meetings.

Wow! The BRMC was discussed in almost every meeting last year. I had no idea there was that much interest. It did not surprise me that most of the discussion centered around South Riding and it's interests in healthcare. In fact, I would have expected that. And frankly, I am impressed with their organization. It is to be admired.

What really shocked me was that everything was caged from the LHI or proposed healthcare CPAM perspective. Raker and LHI had been there several times to speak to the committee. Not once did I note representation from the BRMC side of the issue. I wonder how the committees opinions were formed, without ever hearing from the other side. Hummm, maybe I'll become a conspiracy theorist. Know anyone who can give me lessons?

Jeanne, I think you hit it right on the head! There appears to be more than one OIMBY.

 

Jeanne, how nice to see you again.

Cliff, at the risk of psychobabbling, it certainly appears that the pro-BRMC crowd is pretty shaken up by the judge's ruling. Also, Beth was my friend. Not my "friend".

re SPC: I am on my way to a meeting, so will post the links later for minutes, or you guys can go from the SPC link on the web--anything posted is under past minutes. We are lucky because our chair is a stickler for communication--minutes of some committees haven't been web-posted since 03, and must be accessed at Town Hall (if one is a resident).

Jeanne and AFGM, as you are both well aware from previous threads, our HOA hosted presentations from both sides of the issue. As you are also well aware, LHI contacted us, and to be fair WE then contacted HCA and invited them. If you feel it would be beneficial to go through all of it again, fire away and I'll fill in the blanks for you.

I will tell you that the resolution about BRMC was tabled several times, because the gist of the discussion weighed the pluses and minuses of positive vs. negative resolutions. Anything that comes out of committee goes to the board for approval, so nothing on any committee site is a done deal until it passes the directors. Directors' actions are listed on their page. As any member of the committee has the right to raise issues, I'm not going to pass comment here on a member's decision to propose it. He had the right to raise it for discussion and a vote. Jeanne, I realize it must be very tempting to confuse me with the entire committee (your "flag-waving" comment) but I'm glad to see you noted that it was someone else who raised the issue.

No, Steve is not on any HOA committee, he is simply a member in good standing.

Jeanne, do you really want to reopen the high school issue? I realize that it would provide a heck of a diversion from the land use and legal decision facts of the hospital issue as it currently stands, so suit yourself.

Also, what does anyone know about LoudounHope, that ran the ad in today's Post?

p.s. to AFGM, just curious: if the L2day post was not objectionable, why the half-page insinuating post here ranting about it?

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

You mis read my post. Your "comment" was not objectionable. Thanks for asking and offering me the chance for clarification.

 

I thought it was pretty clear what the judge said. The health commissioner was accurate in his decision to approve HCA's COPN. BRMC has posted the judges decision/letter on their homepage, along with that "mystery" email.

 

What I'm curious about is why didn't Stroube disclose the letter from the Governor's office?
What is wrong with the Governor submitting an opinion? After all, he is from northern Virginia and probably realizes we need another hospital.
Interesting someone points out that HCA apparantly donates most of their money to Democrats when the company is owned/run by a well known Republican (Frist) family.

 

The pro-BRMC crowd where? I see the judges ruling as a win for BRMC, since he found that the failure to follow procedures regarding the email did not merit a reversal of Dr. Stroube decision. Add to that the opinion of the court (which was based on factual research and not spin) that the BRMC COPN approval was appropriate and met all of the necessary criteria. So basically an impartial 3rd party found that although there were violations of process, they did not materially change the validity of the BRMC approval. I have no idea how anyone can see this as less than a win for BRMC. The judge clearly had the ability to reverse Dr. Stroube decision and given Hon. Markow's history, there is no doubt that he would have done that if he had determined the approval was based on either the email or other political pressures and not on the merits of the application.

I am begining to wonder if some of the LHI supporters are former Russian olympic figure skating judges!;&lt

 

So, BRMC posts the actual documents; INOVA/LHI hides behind the spin they get printed in the press. Insightful, don't you think!

 

VW, as I read the document from the judge (the "mysterious" e-mail certainly is...when I click on the link all I get is machine code, so I haven't read it yet), he could not rule on "arbitrary and capricious" because the appeal did not cover the first two COPNs, i.e. he can't compare them to make that determination. As with all legalese, it isn't that the second one is hereby ruled 100%, it is that the ruling doesn't include a comparison in its scope. Same thing with the fact that it is "100% in compliance with state planning": actually, he found it "not inconsistent". The biggest hurdle is going to be the finding of reversible error--again, he did not reverse because he wasn't asked to. To withhold documents from any side before the closing date is a reversible error, and to call that an "administrative issue" that will be easily resolved is some pretty brave whistling in my opinion.

Yes, I'd say the pro-BRMC posters here are quite upset, given the level of activity, and the level of heat in the posts.

I'd also say the pro-BRMC people outside of this forum are pretty upset too--that new group website from yesterday's Post ad is up today, and it is a pistol: The only pages that aren't blank are A) the one that says they won't say who they are for fear of being intimidated, that their website is an in-kind donation (from an unnamed source), and a incomplete spiderweb page that makes a whole slew of conspiracy theory claims. B) the one that allows you to make donations online (to whom? who is their registered agent?).

Best of all is the fact that you can't back out of the site. Trying to use the back button just throws you through the web counter and back into the main page. I was visitors number 307-311 just trying to get out. If they've programmed the page that way, I wonder when we'll see another ad sans contact info that claims the "hundreds who are flocking to their cause".

p.s. to AFGM--what is your opinion on the info posted on Skins Fan's tsunami thread, that notes HCA is the 4th largest employer in VA--what does that do to your stats comparing the Inova system to Reston-HCA?

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

It's a pdf file - so if you are having trouble, then you might not have the Acrobat reader loaded. Here's the link for others that want to read it:

http://www.broadlandsrmc.com/CPM/commissioner_email.pdf

 

Barbara,

I am tempted to ask for your response to the same competitive question, which has been left unanswered.

But I'll take this as an effort to gather more in put before making a determination on the impact of healthcare competition in Loudoun County.

I think it is important for additional health care firms, that enter the Loudoun market, to have critical mass, financial strength and experience to deliver a competitive offering. This was one of the problems for LHI before the aquisition. This is not only my view, but one supported by many, including LHI.

The fact that HCA is the fourth largest employer also tells me they are (relative) the fourth largest taxpayer in the state, and I'd sure like to see Loudoun benefit from some of that.

Services are delivered locally. A competitive environment will draw in competitive offerings, delivered locally.

What maybe interesting for you,(as you continue your information gathering on this subject, prior to stating an opinion. ) Would be to analyze the regional market for healthcare in Richmond. You'll find that HCA is a viable player in that market, and they actually co-exist very well with other competing health care options. They in no way dominate the landscape. In fact, there is more than two competitors in the Richmond market. Bon Secours being a major one, and multiple others (both private and public). Granted they all compete for patient dollars, and get motivative if they aren't earning their portion of patients, but they do cooperate. I'd expect the same type of environment to develop here in Loudoun. We're just pushing to start with another competitor to INOVA here in the Loudoun area. That is if the BOS sees the light.

Consider this. If someone in your family had a serious health problem, wouldn't you want to have service choices close to home? Or services that aren't currently offered closer to home? Wouldn't you want a healthcare environment that promoted innovation? It may be that INOVA is better for heart care, but HCA is better at cancer treatment. Wouldn't it be a good thing for them to be feeling competitive pressure to maintain their edge within their respective expertise. And wouldn't you want the opportunity for making a choice NOW. Rather than during some unspecificed time and location in the future. It seems like an obvious answer to me.

 

This is what all the heat is about!!! I don't get it. How is this benign communication construed into collusion?

exrook, thanks for posting. And I now see why INOVA was more interested in "tainting" the early reviews of this issue, and not publishing the original. As far as I can see, there's nothing of substance to it.

 

Barbara...thanks for the warm welcome back...although, I've been here all along...just nothing significant to contribute. Question for the SPC...since you all have met with the folks from Inova...what is the time frame they are giving you on building a hospital along Rt. 50? Actually, if you could provide the timeframe for the following, it would be great:
Merger
Healthplex along Rt. 50
Hospital along Rt. 50

I'm trying to find the link back to Fortune Magazine's website...but thought it would be nice to share that HCA is in the 2004 list of Most Admired American Companies. Once I find the link, I'll post.

 

Just saw something funny ...

If you look real close at the 'traffic jam' photos being used in the latest BRMC ads, you'll see license plate that look like they're New Jersey .. in fact, that photo looks like it may have been taken on the road leading up to the Lincoln Tunnel in NJ.

If they're going to use a photo, the least they should do is use one from the Beltway !!



Neil Z.
Resident since 1999

 

Jeanne,

I did not know HCA made the list, that is a fantastic achievement. At the top of the Fortune list is Wegman's. That's pretty good company.