BRMC Update & Press Release

AFGM: I was just digging at you a bit--your comparison of the Inova system with one HCA hospital, which Jeanne later commended as "interesting numbers" outlining the Inova "monopoly". It seemed a bit funny to have one of the state's largest employers painted as the underdog by your choice of comparison.

Jeanne, as I'm sure you recall from the previous in-depth discussion about our HOA SPC and the presentations we received, we have never met with Inova. LHI and Inova had not yet merged when we were gathering info on the healthcare CPAM, so as I reiterated perhaps a page ago, we received presentations from LHI and HCA (at our invitiation).

Exrook, thanks for the link. When I had visited the BRMC site earlier, I was able to read the pdf for the judge's letter, but the e-mail pdf either gave me error messages or the code. Your link worked fine.

AFGM, I think Dr. Stroube's comment appended to the e-mail from the commissioner is interesting--"does he support it or not?" This seems to raise the question of why he wrote at all, if he had nothing specific to say other than to caution Dr. Stroube about the governor's policy. Well, it doesn't change the ruling.

NeilZ, I've heard others comment on the stock photo in the ad--a lot like a stock growth ad. I wonder if we'll see "the CPAM is a developer conspiracy" ads break from the new Oliver Stone group? Life is never dull in LoCo!

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

AFGM…not sure how I got in Fortune Magazine’s website before, but now it wants me to buy a subscription to bring up the information. Maybe someone out there has a subscription. HCA made the list of Most Admired American Companies. (Wegman’s made the list for Top 100 Companies to Work For.) Pretty good neighbors to have!

Barbara…thanks for the clarification…that the SPC has never met with officials from Inova. Which leads me the question….how can the SPC “oppose the approval of a hospital project by HCA in Broadlands” if they don’t have information available on the Rt. 50 project since the Loudoun/Inova merger? I went back over your meeting minutes for 2004 and now have several other questions…

Why the change of heart from the SPC? Why do they go from supporting a CPAM with no specified medical group to opposing the approval of BRMC? And what surrounding communities does the SPC represent? Do they have representatives that sit on the SPC? How can the SPC make this kind of decision that will ultimately affect 220,000 county residents if they have not met with officials from Inova to determine questions posed to you in my last post…what is the timing of the Inova/Loudoun merger, the Healthplex and the hospital along Route 50? Was this information provided in M. Hummel's information to the SPC in November?

As for the ad you referenced in the Post…I also saw the ad and visited the website. No, I’m not a member, but I did learn a little when I clicked on the spider web!

The comparison of HCA to Inova...as AFGM pointed out in the number of beds each has in PD 8, Inova’s 1499 beds (without Louodun’s beds) in no way compares HCA’s presence in Northern Virginia. After the merger, it will be something like 1650 beds for Inova, and after BRMC is built, HCA will have around 290 beds.

 

Jeanne, I'll see if I can clarify some of your issues. The questions you now raise were not covered the last time we went around on the SPC.

Do you live in a community with an HOA? If so, then you are no doubt aware that HOA committees are part of the proprietary organization of the community, a non-stock incorporation whose members are all of the residents/property owners in the community. This is why the "regional HOAs" implemented by the PEC are bogus--they may be "Regional Associations of Homeowners", but they are not what their chosen name implies.

Of course, by choosing that name, they not only get to imply that they are somehow an official representative body, but they also get to make the same arguments you are now putting forth: regional representation, "speaking for" a region and its residents, a larger place in the scheme of "affecting 220,000 residents" (of which they are a large large very official part!), and so on.

Of course there is no regional representation on our HOA: the surrounding communities are their own discrete entities. Does your HOA include representation from other communities? AFGM, does Ashburn Farm's? I doubt it, but if they do, that is your community's business and that of your governing documents. Our HOA consists of resident/property owners here, and as such any committee position is going to operate from the perspective of this community only, and can only be perceived as such.

I think your arguments are basically red herrings--regional representation on our HOA: wrong. Somehow we must now go back to square one and meet with INOVA, LHI and HCA? No. We personally affect 220,000 people? Nice try--we only represent the 12-15,000 who are members here, and only "affect" the rest of the planet if you wish to espouse the communitarian position that we are one world and a storm drain repair in South Riding deserves to be voted on by representatives from Paeonian Springs, because it may directly affect a vernal pond outside Waterford. And as such, whatever decision the HOA group comes to is what it is and no more. My personal feeling (and I stress that I am NOT speaking for the community or the SPC/HOA) is that the feeling of those who seek to be on record opposing BRMC is based on the same evaluation of good planning for the entire county versus the bird-in-the-hand, crisis/immediate need argument, which has also been argued to the degree that it is not worth rehashing simply because two new things have happened--merger and ruling, no matter how much you may want to. The committee position before the merger doesn't change because of the merger.

If you wish to feel that all of your new issues are questions that demand an answer on the part of the greater community of Loudoun, go right ahead. I can't speak here for the community or the committees, and when I am participating there in that capacity I am only my vote (which I do not perceive to somehow belong to the county at large).

p.s.--did I ask if you were a member of the new group? I don't think I did, did I?

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Barbara, the minutes show zero attendance by BRMC, you've conveniently ignored that fact. As you said, your Chairman is a stickler for communication. I assume it would of been caught if BRMC was at a meeting.

Makes me more convinced this thing is about South Riding for your perspective.

I have no idea how anyone can come up with a valid conclusion on something without hearing out both sides.

Also, have you completed your research on the competition issue. Would love to hear what you're thinking there.

 

No, AFGM: your carefully phrased accusatory post ignores the fact (as was exhaustively detailed in the previous go-round about our SPC--deja vu all over again, or 50 First Dates?) that when we invited HCA/BRMC, they were unable to attend a regular meeting. Consequently a special meeting was scheduled on July 14, 2004, at which Brian Dearing of HCA, Mark Looney as legal rep, and Megan Descutner of BRMC gave a presentation. Shall I be petty, and ask rhetorical inflammatory/diversionary questions about why we had to do that if they are so interested in caring for ALL communities? No, because to my knowldege and recollection it was a simple scheduling issue.

The posted minutes of the regular July mtg '04, under the heading "Briefing from HCA on BRMC", records discussion of the presentation, and a unanimous vote to suggest that the Directors support the CPAM, but not any specific healthcare entity. While it is tempting to accuse you of shoddy research, or insinuating for the purpose of being deliberately misleading, I'm sure you are neither that sloppy nor that dishonorable. Perhaps you didn't look back that far, or scroll down far enough, or you surely would have "caught" it, "stickler" that you are, eh?

Which one of us is conveniently ignoring facts, or apparently engaging in tautology for the purpose of advancing an agenda?

As I've said, I have no interest in succumbing to the desperate diversion of rehashing (very) old arguments, and neither do I agree (while Jeanne would apparently like to believe that one HOA committee affects one-quarter million county residents) that the pertinent discussion revolves around the scope and veracity of our SPC. While your subtly phrased and surely unintentionally misleading statement that "the minutes show zero attendance by BRMC" is technically true, the shift of focus away from the only new information (the judge's ruling and its ramifications) seems a bit desperate. As such it does little to advance the credibility of your position.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Barbara,

Obviously our written debate is complicated. Let me try to simplify. A couple of questions.

1. Would you like one type of grocery store to serve your community?
2. Would you be satisifed if one service provider delivered day care services to your community?

 

AFGM, should I quote you and say "Another dodge!"?

1. It's been that way for years.
2. It was that way when I was a preschool consumer.

Both have since been/are in the process of being expanded by zoning.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Barbara...your responses still don't answer these basic questions...let me put it in a simple question format like afgm...

1. How can the SPC make a decision to oppose BRMC without having met with Inova to determine:
a. when/if the merger will go through
b. when the healthplex will be built
c. when the hospital will be built

If you have the answers to a, b and c, please share.

2. What was in M. Hummel's presentation to the SPC that swayed them to now oppose BRMC?

3. If there is no representation from other communities on South Riding's SPC, how can you word a document, or a motion to oppose something, that says your are speaking on behalf of their community?

Sorry for just not getting it...maybe someone from our HOA can help out. Does the Broadlands HOA ever word a document that says you are speaking on behalf of another community?

Sorry, too, for answering a question you didn't ask, Barbara. I know how annoying it is to read more information than you asked for.

 

Jeanne, thank you for the simplistic reframing of the questions. Let me try to answer clearly and simply so you will perhaps understand:

1a. The merger is none of our business, and doesn't affect the resolution of support for the CPAM, as has been stated multiple times.
1b. The timeframe is not yet public, and as such is none of our business; neither does it affect the resolution of support for the CPAM, or any resolution of opposition to a hospital on the Greenway.
1c. See 1a and 1b.
1a-c: if the committee members who voted for the resolution (and I may/do NOT speak for them) are supportive of the CPAM on the basis of logical planning, a hospital planned in contravention of logical planning may follow as worthy of official opposition.

2. I could be rude (but accurate) and say that is none of your business--you are very lucky that we have an open website which allows those who are not members in good standing to review minutes that are technically not available to them. However, I will say that people seem to feel the location is poorly planned and could block approval of NEW beds when the review promised by state occurs after all existing approvals to date come on line, as has been stated how many times now? This is not a new argument, no matter how much you desperately wish it were. Neither is the argument about our SPC, no matter how much you are trying to divert it there.

3. The document is not worded that way--the meeting minutes reference discussion of wording that is more inclusive of the area, i.e. Dulles South as opposed to South Riding--precisely because there are people who make a federal case if a South Riding group makes a case for a South Riding position--as I'm sure you're familiar with if you live in Ashburn, which has suffered its own rep of expecting things, at least as perceived by other areas of the county.

If you're not getting it, perhaps you should read the minutes again--read slowly and carefully, and you'll see that the document does not state it is speaking on behalf of other communities. It suggests more inclusive language.

I doubt the HOA here seeks help in writing our minutes, as they are written for us and we seem to have no trouble understanding them. You may surely seek help from your HOA in gaining understanding of our minutes, if you think it will make you feel better, but I doubt your HOA will contact our HOA with recommended changes on your behalf. Perhaps I'm wrong, but should they choose to do so for you, it may not be wise to expect those changes to be forthcoming at any rapid pace.


Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

If INOVA decides to build a hospital in South Riding...how far away would it be from there other hospitals in the area (just the INOVA chain)? Of course this is all just assumption and approximate distances.

 

SoxFan, the only one I know of close by is Fair Oaks. The site I have heard discussed is west of the village of Arcola, on the north side of 50. I don't know the mileage, but if you check a map and scan from the location of Fair Oaks to about Quail Hollow (approx where 50 goes from 4-lane to two) you can get a good guess. Interestingly enough, although it is perpetually referred to as "South Riding", the land in question is in the Aldie zipcode.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

These hospital threads are like a Nascar race - round and round and round. I hope the finish line comes up soon so these threads will end. I don't know why I keep reading them. Guess I am waiting for the crash on turn 3!

 

AFGM and Jeanne-
The South Riding area's reason for opposing BRMC is clear:
Better to oppose BRMC now so that a hospital can be built in 10-15 years when there is enough demand for one near them.
Better to deny healthcare to everyone in the county now so they can get a hospital near them some time in the future.
They can put any other spin they want on it, but the truth (to me) is painfully obvious.

 

Cliff, I only offer that the hyped immediacy of "denying everyone in the county" for our own obviously selfish reasons is spin in its own way if one doesn't buy the argument (Scott York's as stated during the '03 campaign) that one in the wrong place for most of the county is fine if it's immediate.

I also did some reading on Wilcox County Alabama, the subject of the new secret pro-immediate hospital ad campaign: what a comparison! They have approx 13,000 people (6% of our population) and have shown a steady decline in pop over the last century according to the decennial census #s. The majority of the pop (over 80%) is African American, so I don't know what gives with the affecting photo of the people on the porch, all of whom are white. The county boasts one of the largest inventories of intact ante bellum homes in Alabama, most of which are still in use (perhaps the poverty is primarily confined to a portion of the majority?), and the major economic engine seems to be their vast unspoiled reserves of woods, water and a wide variety of game animals--the major economic opportunites seem to be camping/boating/recreation and fishing/hunting. Maybe they are "poor" because they have no production economy, and hence low taxes, given that there really are no people to provide services to? Their sole hospital is the J.Paul Jones, staffed by four doctors and containing 26 beds. That's some ad campaign. At least they provide the disclaimer of "*beds per resident"! Truth in advertising rules!


Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

The advertisement is very effective to those still with an open mind.

Barbara, your flag is getting bigger, and the true is now being exposed.

 

Now that is a good analogy! And humorous frankly.

Consider this stuff an attempt to keep the mud off our "community" windshield. Best to go into that last turn with a clear view on reality. A clear view on who is throwing the mud. I am not sure everyone in the stands can tell what is happening on the track.

 

I would suggest if you are satisifed with the status quo, or you think the County will fix (zoning) your lack of choices, you are living delusionally.

"If you zone it, they will come", is a totally ridiculous argument.

If Safeway, or a day care center saw a need I am certain "zoning" was already in place to provide a free enterprise to exploit the opportunity.

On the other hand, using zoning to kill free enterprise is a devious endeavour.

It is a selfish view to promote legislation that would deny a grocery store from opening elsewhere, just so there's a better chance it is opened in your back yard. What twisted logic. (substitute grocery store for hospital)

Barbara, you're much smarter than this.

 

AFGM, it appears you're going to keep posting until I take some bait. Here goes: aren't you smarter than this?

Rooftops come before business, and zoning doesn't always list specific businesses as by-right use--like preschool or daycare (or hospital). The Comp Plan for town center development where Giant is now under construction was heartily opposed by the "smart" growth crowd, and may still be found on the Sustainable Loudoun web as a very bad thing for South Riding.

The fact that I think placing moved beds (as opposed to NEW beds) so close to the only other hospital is a bad idea is NOT new news.

The fact that these are not NEW beds counters the immediacy/bird in hand argument, because any new evaluation after the beds are moved and the existing approvals are functional may see no need for NEW beds in any proximity to the recently moved ones--and aren't we all on record as seeing a need for NEW beds?

The fact of the merger does not reopen the competition argument, even if you reframe to compare all of Inova to ONE HCA facility. You were also talking about monopoly when it was just LHI.

As for mud on the windshield, I see no comment from you on that remarkable post about our HOA meeting minutes, where it certainly seemed as though you were either being deliberately misleading, or seriously in need of remedial reading comprehension skills.

None of this is NEWS, and the only NEW news we may probably look for is more legal action, and more mud on the windshield from the increasingly more desperate anti-CPAM group.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Isn't there some other place that Ashburn Farm and South Riding can debate this hospital ad nauseum?

 

As long as they take cliff with them.