1. Yes, it's a whole new look! Have questions or need help? Please post your question in the New Forum Questions thread Click the X to the right to dismiss this notice
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Seeing tons of unread posts after the upgrade? See this thread for help. Click the X to the right to dismiss this notice
    Dismiss Notice

Broadlands Hospital Approved!

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by T8erman, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. Pats_fan

    Pats_fan Former Resident

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    1


    coopstar,

    You make some good arguments, but you also appear to be guilty of employing flawed logic.

    How can you support the results of a survey in which less than half of the community participated, but then appear to be ready to discount Cliff's 3-1 election victory on the basis of voter turnout?

    You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Assuming less than half of the residents of Broadlands participated in the election (probably a safe assumption), either:

    a) neither the survey nor the election mean anything, in which case Cliff is free to support or oppose whatever he wishes; or
    b) the survey is a valid "public opinion" poll, AND Cliff's 3-1 victory, in which his views in favor of the hospital were known, does indeed provide a mandate.

    If the answer is b), then I would submit that the election "trumps" the survey, and Cliff is morally obligated to support the hospital. We don't ask our elected leaders to make policy decisions based on public opinion polls; Cliff shouldn't either.
     
  2. coopstar

    coopstar New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pats_fan, I wasn't trying to have it both ways. The premise of my argument was: the results of the survey were nullified due to a low percentage of respondants. What is the yardstick for measuring a "valid" vote or survey to the Broadland's HOA? This issue may come up again in the future. If surveys or elections can be twisted, manipulated or invalidated to support interests other than the community at-large, then why even participate?</u> Better yet, don't even mail them out and save us money on dues.

    The way I understood it, the survey was not a "public opinion poll" but actually a referendum which would be the basis of Broadlands' collective support or opposition to the hospital. I remember Cliff stating that he would abide by the results and that would be the "official" position put forth by the residents of Broadlands.

    Personally, I believe you should only consider the sum of votes returned. The issue that has more votes, even a single vote, wins. Simple, straightforward and fair. I merely proposed contrasting the "invalid" survey with Cliff's election "mandate". For all I know we could have had 100% turnout to elect HOA reps.

    One other logic point to consider. If Cliff's three-to-one win was based solely on his pro-hospital position, then I'd have to consider him truly a one trick poney, but I don't believe that's the case. Again, people clamor for facts vice emotions on these postings. I'd like to see the numbers in order to make an educated decision on what constitutes a "mandate" and what consitutes a non-valid survey.
     
  3. Brooks5

    Brooks5 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cliff,

    This is the first I've heard of Winchester playing a part in locating the inpatient psychiatric services here. Aren't these services instead coming here to absorb the patients from HCA's Dominion Psychiatric Hospital in Falls Church, when it shuts its doors?

    And my understanding is that Winchester's (EIGHT-bed!) inpatient facility for adolescents/teens closed because there was virtually no patient volume to support even such a small facility. If that's true, then our ideal "mid-way" location won't matter a bit to the people of Winchester. If they didn't use their eight beds, they ain't gonna use our forty. Besides, I believe they only closed their adolescent inpatient services, but the previous (failed) BRMC proposal, in place long before Winchester closed, called for a significant amount of adult psychiatric beds as well. With all due respect Cliff, the Winchester excuse seems quite a reach.

    As our representative, rather than so strongly support this thing, maybe you should be angry that a precious fourth of our neighborhood's so-called badly needed hospital beds are being used to solve Dominion Hospital's problems.

    As I said before, Cliff, this whole thing smells funny to me. And you're not doing much to help clear the air. Maybe you were elected on the basis of your support for this project. If so, I'd sure like to hear the reasons you gave during your campaign. I hope they're better than the ones you're using now. I don't know you Cliff, and I respect your desire to serve the community in which you live. But it seems to me that maybe your agenda is clouding your sense of fair play.
     
  4. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    We don't ask them to do that but they do! Case in point the FCC crackdown b/c of a piece of human anatomy that we all have. For 10 years the FCC could care less what was on TV or the radio and all of a sudden it's gotten bad? Uh-huh. It was b/c a vocal minority saw an opportunity to advance their agenda and the politicians stuck there finger up in the air and supported it b/c of perceived public perception when in fact the silent majority could care less about Howard Stern, et all.
     
  5. einstein

    einstein New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cliff,

    Thanks for forwarding the information to HCA. I am aware HCA has recently purchased the land, but it too can be sold if a better site becomes available. To address the statement that "they also stated they wanted to locate as far west as they could (and still have public water and sewer) to serve western Loudoun residents". The MCI property is at most 2 miles east of here has significantly better access to major roads, water, and sewer and is not in anybody's back yard. Further, the Broadlands is not western Loudoun by the County's own definition (slow growth) in that we are east of Goose Creek. If their intent is to serve the west, move west. I suggest when/if HCA does not build in the Broadlands we collectively work to put that land to the best use to serve the Broadlands and surrounding community. Here is my suggestion: Think way out of the box and meet the current and real needs of nearly every Broadlands resident and community member today. Build two four-plex baseball/softball fields, 4 soccer fields, a skate park, (boards and blades) golf driving range, putting green, putt putt golf, picnic area and a wide open multiple ACRE play area for children to play, running track, supported by concession facility and whatever the community would like to see. A sports pavilion similar to the one in Ashburn village????? I may be on to something! Anyway, food for thought.....
     
  6. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,396
    Likes Received:
    5
    Coopstar buddy, did you play "Twister" when you were a kid. [8)]
     
  7. chris

    chris New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I had known that the HOA/HCA representatives themselves would end up BASHING the survey that they created, I would never have participated. Just because the results were not favorable, they discount them. How typical of the pro-hospital fringe.
     
  8. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Loudoun Hospital can change the general plan can't Broadlands change the proffer of the area the hospital will be at to soemthing like Banshee Reeks or at least a Commercial site smaller than AOL?
     
  9. Mearen

    Mearen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    0
    That may be true based on political theory, practical application actually makes the opposite true and based on current political trends you would be a pawn of a special interest group such as the hospital.
     
  10. Donna

    Donna New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2002
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cliff, to responde to your question about where the other locations are that would accomodate water and sewer one large area is at route 50 and the soon to be extended rt 659. This has water and sewer and a large enough piece of land to accomodate the needs of any healthcare provider that wants to build in Loudoun.
     
  11. SK8R

    SK8R On the Clover Meadow

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    20
    Oh come now, Donna.... HCA can't build out there on 50. Bad for business, you know.
    Also, they won't have the following like they do here is the B-lands.
    Look at Reston.... we want to be like Reston, don't we? Everyone in Reston loves their hospital.
     
  12. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,281
    Likes Received:
    344
    einstein-
    I love your ideas for the use of the land. I have only one question...who pays for it. Therein lies the problem.

    Regarding discussions about location. I would support the hospital whether they wanted it built in Broadlands, MCI property, South Riding, Brambleton, etc. My key belief is that we need another hospital now. HCA looked at available sites and their number 1 and 2 choices are both in Broadlands. The desire of some to have it built somewhere else isn't likely to change HCA's opinion of where they want to locate. If this proposal is defeated, it is likely no additional hospital will be built. LHC knows this, knows that South Riding is not the place to locate a new hospital, therefore they are trying to get the BOS to support their plan amendment....to keep their monopoly on hospital care in Loudoun County (my opinion).
    I also happen to believe that the hospital is a better use, and will have less impact on the community than 5-7 7 story office buildings, with the property completely stripped and clear cut with parking lots.

    Chris- You conveniently leave out the fact that Donna, the "leader" of the anti's also agreed the poll did not give a clear indication of the community as a whole. As a whole, Coopstar is most likely right...the majority of the community is indifferent or on the fence.

    I am also one vote of seven on the HOA Board and do not control it. The other two resident members also support it.
    As I mentioned, I will try to get the whole explanation of the issues
    in a week or so when I return.

    Lastly, regarding the survey, I have sent the results of it to the BOS and our state representatives as well, so they know exactly how the community voted on this issue.
     
  13. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,396
    Likes Received:
    5
    Reston does love their hospital, and their is also a Clyde's there that they love.

     
  14. Brooks5

    Brooks5 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  15. einstein

    einstein New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cliff,

    Thanks for your approval of my idea :)

    If not the HCA property, how about the land mentioned at the last annual meeting that is currently owned by the residents of the Broadlands. The same land the HOA board was going to proffer or give to the county to let the YMCA build for free?

    Pay for it? Not a problem, not easy, but not insurmountable. Where there is opportunity, there is money...how did the pavilion in Ashburn Village get built? The Olympic size pool in the Broadlands? However, the question of who pays for "it" is too premature since there are no requirements for "it" to find a "who". First action is to understand what if anything the Broadlands residents would like in their neighborhood and if they would support it. Next, what are the needs of the surrounding communities? I have read there is such a shortage of playing fields and outdoor facilities in Loudoun County right now that getting field time is next to impossible. Nice to have those playing fields in our back yard for our children and the many leagues that are able and willing to pay! (Revenue)

    This could be an excellent opportunity for the HOA Board to show the leadership and vision to and for the parents and children of the Broadlands and Loudoun County.

    P.S. There are a lot of smart people in the Broadlands who would likely be willing to assist with the financial planning, facility planning etc. for something like this if it were to get anywhere besides this post.

    Have a great day!
     
  16. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,281
    Likes Received:
    344
    einstein-
    I need to correct/clarify you on a number of your points:
    1) The HOA does not own the site the YMCA would be built on. It was a proffer from the developer to the county. The county owns the land. The HOA never owned it.
    2) The pavillion in Ashburn Village was built by the developer as an amenity for the residents. It wasn't paid for by the county or their HOA.
    3) The olympic size pool was paid for by the developer, as part of their proffers to get the Broadlands development approved.
    4) I fully support your idea.....if you can find an avenue to get land purchased from the Broadlands Developer (Van Metre) to be used as the HOA would like, let's persue it. Be aware that land will run about $250,000 (or more) an acre. I would love to see how it could be bought and developed in a way that is fiscally sound. If you, or any others, have ideas, forward them on!
    5) I look forward to your running for an HOA Board seat next month!
     
  17. einstein

    einstein New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cliff,

    Thanks for the info and clarification on a couple of points.

    1. That's good news the county owns the land. We can approach the elected officials of the county with an idea/proposal.
    2. Too bad our developer did not think of or propose something like the pavilion. :(
    3. Understood. Not sure a third pool was the best idea but cannot change that :(
    4. Glad you support it! If the County owns the proffered land, purchasing may not be an issue, only selling the idea. How many acres is the proffered land? Is Wes S. the POC from Van Metre?
    5. Hmmmmmmmmm

    Cliff,

    I appreciate your input and response to this thread and answering my questions, albeit very preliminary and fact finding. There is a possibility we could be on to something and would appreciate input and opinions from others on this post. Thanks again.
     
  18. coopstar

    coopstar New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cliff, a few postings back I asked how many people voted in the HOA election. You said you won by a three-to-one margin, so you must know the actual number of votes. As a dues paying resident who voted, I feel that information should be available upon request. Anybody else curious?
     
  19. chris

    chris New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Coopstar: I would not hold your breath waiting for a response... Anyway, I think that I know why VACLIFF is not responding -- that's because I'm sure that less than 1/2 the residents voted in the HOA elections the last time around. That's important because you have to keep in mind that VACLIFF says that the results of his own HCA/HOA survey were invalid and worthless because less than 1/2 the resident homeowners voted. So, what's he is saying by extension is that, unless 1/2 of the residents voted in the HOA elections, his "win" was equally invalid and worthless.
     
  20. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,281
    Likes Received:
    344
    chris-
    The only "worthless" comments are your own. Your constant attacking and demeaning comments about others demonstrates, in my opinion, the shallowness of your personality. Having met you briefly you struck me as an intelligent, considerate person. The tone of your posts conflicts with my impression of you as a person. I guess I don't know which is the real you.
    Also, unlike you, I don't live with a computer in front of my face all day. Sometimes it may take, egads!, a few days, let alone a few hours, to respond. Less than two hours passed since Coopstar posed his question to me, but you feel the need to post a snide comment.

    coopstar-
    I don't remenber the exact count, but it was something like 120ish to 40ish. My point in all this was that you can't consider the results of the poll a "mandate" any more than I can consider my re-election a "mandate" (which I don't).
    Again, my point about the poll was that the result was close and a majority of the residents did not respond.
     

Share This Page