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Broadlands Medical Facility

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by yankee1, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    It truly has been refreshing to just read this forum (occassionally) and not participate, however there are a few corrections that need to be made. First is the CPAM. This document is only open (I believe) ONCE a year for ANYONE to make recommendations to it. There is a protocal that needs to be followed to have an amendment considered for the CPAM. NO ONE can arbitrarily add something to the CPAM just because they feel like it. It is only available for changes ONE TIME A YEAR. Secondly, the traffic study that was conducted was done without the consideration of the MOB. The MOB traffic is considered SECONDARY to the hospital traffic and is not considered to be important to those trying to build. If you truly believe that 16,000 cars daily....DAILY (which is a LOW estimation) is not going to forever change the dynamics of this community you are kidding yourself. As one of the commissioners said...People can not access the hospital by rt 659, because that is for emergency vehicles ONLY, they can not access the hospital by way of the Greenway UNLESS they have a smartag or credit card, so the only way they will be able to access the hospital is THROUGH our neighborhood. You may not live close enough to this proposed site to be directly affected but consider the feelings of your neighbors that do. As many people have said...HCa's plan is a good idea, it's just the location that's bad.
     
  2. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Barbara-
    A point of clarification about the traffic study. I was at the Planning Commission meeting, so I'm speaking from firsthand knowledge.
    The reason an additional traffic study was not done for the medical office buildings is that this is a BY RIGHT use. The county does not require traffic studies for a by right use. The Commission members pointed this fact out. There was no requirement by HCA to do a traffic study for the by right portion of the application.

    That being said, even though peak traffic periods would be reduced, there is an overall increase in the number of car trips with the hospital/medical complex than an office park (a reversal of opinion from county staff since the public hearing). It was mentioned that the county was still several million dollars short of having the money needed to widen Belmont Ridge Road from the Greenway to Truru Parish and that a contribution from HCA as part of this proposal would be helpful.
    I'd be willing to bet that HCA will now offer a substantial amount of money to complete this road project. Given that this road improvement is one of Steve Snow's top priorities, I wonder if this will soften his opinion about BRMC?
     
  3. GCyr

    GCyr New Member

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    Cliff,

    Thanks for the correction. Guess my memory didn't serve me right... [8D]

     
  4. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    GCyr: first, thanks to Cliff for his clarification (which raises another question). Second, in answer to your query I called the county offices at least twice over a period of time on this. When I heard some people raise the issue of a "waived" traffic study, I asked about that, and received the logical and reasonable explanation about the change in type of land-use application (to ZCPA, I looked it up), which did not necessitate an immediate repeat of an accomplished (duplicate) procedure. The issue of the med building traffic is in staff comment to the PC, and I received that info when calling the county offices.

    Cliff, your information raises an interesting possibility, along the lines of many questions in the quest for specificity; If the med office is a by-right use for which no traffic study is needed, is this a loophole that technically allows the non-addressal of the issue? Before anyone gets their neck ruff up, consider: is one of the papers in the bundle of applications to pull a by-right permit for the portion of the assembled parcels on which the med offices are now planned, so that traffic is covered? Possible, but is it probable (much like questioning the realism of the desire to believe that the CPAM was a two week knockoff)?

    What could be occurring is the fact that there are so many possible land uses in the pile of multiple-app paperwork, administered under so many different land use statutes, that staff is sorting through a lot of spaghetti at once and trying to pry it off the wall in recognizeable chunks. Had the applications been dealt with in sequence instead of bundled for simultaneous decisions, it would probably furnish more comprehensive (and comprehensible) information. But then it wouldn't be able to be as crucial a now-or-never issue, either.

    Donna, I think you're talking about applicant-initiated CPAMs, and that's a good point to remember about the block of Trans Zone CPAMs submitted. Some people are already raising in the press and at the BoS meetings that the numbers "prove" a "developer conspiracy". No, they're just coming in at the deadline for applicant-inits. (Because CPAMs take time to put together and vet.)

    Cliff: I'm not sure if they're short in that section (Greenway to Truro). I think that is nailed down under the agreement they began to hammer out when the infill was done that is building the access to the park across from Truro. You could be right--I do know that one of the new CPAMs with the Greenvest projects proposes doing all of 659 from 621 to Bull Run. I can't wait to see who comes out of the woodwork (and from how far away) to chain themselves to those grading machines if it is approved.

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  5. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    Gosh, what side of their mouth are they speaking from...just curious. Is competition good or not???


    Support for limits to hospital competition
    Government advisers say in an early report that niche centers take away profitable patients.

    By Kristen Hallam

    BLOOMBERG NEWS


    HCA Inc., Tenet Healthcare Corp., and other operators of general hospitals have won support from a government advisory panel for limits on competition from niche providers such as MedCath Corp.

    The independent commission said in a preliminary report that specialty medical centers treat a larger share of profitable Medicare patients and a smaller percentage of the poor than do conventional hospitals. The panel's final report, due in March, will help Congress decide whether to extend a moratorium on the expansion of specialized facilities.

    "Release of the preliminary report highlights the ongoing struggle between community hospitals and specialty hospitals over the moratorium," Rami Armon, a policy analyst with Lehman Bros. in Washington, wrote in a report last week. "Lobbying has already begun."

    Last year, HCA and Tenet persuaded lawmakers to limit the expansion of rivals such as MedCath, of Charlotte, N.C., arguing that they siphon off profitable business without providing costly services such as emergency and charity care. Officials at MedCath, which runs heart centers and other doctor-owned units set up to treat certain diseases, say specializing improves the quality of care.

    Tenet owns five hospitals in the Philadelphia area: Graduate, Hahnemann University, Roxborough Memorial and St. Christopher's Hospital for Children in the city, and Warminster Hospital in Bucks County.

    The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission's staff members visited three markets with specialty hospitals: Austin, Texas; Wichita and Manhattan, Kan.; and Sioux Falls, S.D. Almost two-thirds of specialized hospitals are in Kansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Texas, where state approval isn't needed for the construction of hospitals.

    The preliminary study concluded that specialized hospitals "are an attractive alternative for patients and their families" and have forced general hospitals to be more competitive. At the same time, the panel found that doctors who own interests in specialized hospitals refer healthier Medicare patients to their facilities instead of to general hospitals.

    The preliminary report "certainly verifies everything we hear from community hospitals," namely that niche competitors avoid Medicaid and uninsured patients, said Carmela Coyle, the American Hospital Association's senior vice president for policy.

    "It's important to underscore that this is only the beginning of their work, but they're really looking at all the right issues: conflict of interest, referrals, and the community safety net," Coyle said. The association, which represents 4,700 hospitals, wants the moratorium extended.

    Much of the debate is focused on heart centers, which perform such profitable procedures as bypass surgeries. General hospitals such as those run by HCA reported that about one-third of their patients were Medicare recipients, whereas 62 percent of those treated at heart hospitals were covered by the U.S. health insurance program for the elderly and disabled.
     
  6. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Is there a date for this article?

    Welcome back Donna, for a while there, I thought you had quit your job working for LCI and had been helping Dan Rather with some of his "document work" :)Just kidding!

     
  7. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Barbara-
    There was a member from the county transportation office at the Planning Comission meeting. He said there was still a shortfall of 1-3 million dollars for the completion of that stretch of Belmont Ridge.
    Also, the "loophole" you mentioned seems to be correct. The county staff mentioned that medical office buildings, being a by-right use, requires no traffic study. However, they did not expect that a by-right use would have the volume, 400,000 square feet, of medical office space as the hospital/medical complex would have. They pointed out that HCA in no way attempted to deceive/hide information and pointed out the traffic information they did provide exceeded county requirements.

    Donna-
    It appears your article is mixing apples and oranges.These facilities that HCA was opposing do not provide charity/emergency care. As you are aware, these are a drain on resources.
    Given that BRMC will provide emergeny care and has a charity care program that Dr. Stroube pointed out as superior, the comparison is not pertinent to the LHC/HCA battle here.
    Did you note the one line in the article "and have forced general hospitals to be more competitive." Sounds like that's a good thing!
    Also, Broadlands Blvd is a MAJOR COMMERCIAL road, not a quiet residential street. Even if the hospital is not built and the 1,000,000 square foot office complex that generates 11,500 trips/day is built in its place, add to that the Clyde's, the School Admin building and the 1,000,000 square foot section that is not build on yet, this will be an extremely busy commercial road. That's the way it is and there's no way around it. Unless, of course, someone comes up with about $25,000,000 and buys all the property to not develop it.
     
  8. exrook

    exrook New Member

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    Sounds like LHI is probably for this moratorium as well.
     
  9. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Historic Perspective:


    HEADLINE: Officials See Health Care Price War; Loudoun, Reston Hospitals Could Battle for Customers


    Increased competition between two local hospitals could mean lower health care costs and expanded services for residents of western Fairfax and eastern Loudoun counties, according to hospital and state health officials.

    Should Loudoun Hospital Center move six miles closer to Reston Hospital Center, each facility likely would cut some of its rates and offer more services to try to to hold on to its own patients and draw customers from the other, a state health planner said.

    Officials at both hospitals also predicted lower costs and more services, although they disagreed on whether the cost-cutting would be driven by increased competition.

    This month, the state health commissioner approved the Loudoun hospital's plans to move from Leesburg to a new building in Lansdowne, a move that would bring the hospital closer to the fast-growing communities of Ashburn and Cascades.

    Reston Hospital Center officials had opposed the move, saying it would cut into their share of patients from eastern Loudoun. The hospitals would be 11 miles apart.

    Dean Montgomery, executive director of the Northern Virginia Health Systems Agency, a state agency that recommended the move, said patients at both hospitals likely would benefit from the pressure to keep rates competitive.

    "The move will enable Loudoun hospital to compete more effectively for patients not just from eastern Loudoun but also those living between Countryside and Leesburg," he said. "That's the area Reston Hospital has been trying to woo away from Loudoun."

    In an interview last week, Thomas D. Miller, chief executive of the 127-bed Reston hospital, agreed that consumers could expect to see reduced charges and expanded services because of the Loudoun hospital's move.

    Although it was too early to provide details, he said, the hospital had to add such services as obstetrics, radiation therapy and psychiatric treatment to compete with Fair Oaks Hospital, which is about six miles south of the Reston facility.

    "We're going to bring our costs down further and continue to focus on improving our quality of health care," Miller said. "The winner of all this is going to be the consumer."

    Loudoun Hospital Center officials also said they expect to cut rates and add some services. But they said that is because their new building would make operations more efficient, not because of a price war with Reston.

    They predicted that both hospitals would benefit from population growth in eastern Loudoun and western Fairfax and that neither would experience much of a change in market share. Eastern Loudoun residents make up about 15 percent of the Reston hospital's inpatient volume and about 35 percent of the inpatient volume at Loudoun Hospital Center.

    "Both hospitals will have the same size pieces of a pie that is getting bigger," said Cheree Cleghorn, spokeswoman for Loudoun Hospital Center.

    Cleghorn also said the move would allow the Loudoun hospital to affiliate with other health care providers in Northern Virginia, such as Fairfax Hospital and Mount Vernon Hospital, helping to reduce operating costs and expand patient services.

    The affiliations could involve joint purchases of supplies, coordinated training of interns and transfers of patients with special needs, she said.

    The hospital's move still faces several obstacles.

    Hospital officials must secure financing, in a volatile bond market, for the 80-bed, $ 43 million facility in Lansdowne.

    The state health commissioner's decision to allow the move also could be appealed. Although a group of Leesburg and western Loudoun residents has said it will abandon its fight, Reston hospital officials said they have not ruled out an appeal.

    Hospital officials hope to begin construction in April and to open the new Loudoun hospital by early 1997 if financing is completed by March.

    In rejecting the Reston hospital's arguments, state health officials said the move would even the playing field. A state health department report said Loudoun hospital was hardest hit when Reston and Fair Oaks opened in the mid-1980s. Under pressure from Fair Oaks, Reston has increasingly targeted eastern Loudoun.

    As a result, the Loudoun Hospital Center's share of Loudoun residents admitted to Northern Virginia hospitals dropped from 66 percent in 1985 to 56 percent in 1991. The drop was particularly sharp in the Sterling and Ashburn areas.

    "If this isn't done now, another facility would be added in eastern Loudoun, and that's not needed by anyone," Montgomery said. "In the end, Reston could have been hurt more if this didn't happen than if it does."

    Source: January 26, 1995; Washington Post
     
  10. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    AFGM, No, I wasn't helping Dan Rather, I've been down in Alabama trying to win the $50,000 offered to anyone who can prove George Bush fulfilled his Air National Guard duties in Alabama, but alas, I was unsuccessful so I guess I'll have to keep my day job. The article appeared in Bloomberg News on September 13, 2004. HCA has been doing a lot to make news lately, not all of it is good. Check into some of the recent hospital closings HCA is doing. Interesting...
     
  11. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    AFGM-
    Great article you found!! Sure puts things in perspective and demonstrates the utter hypocricy of LHC.
    Hey Donna-
    Which side of the mouth is LHC speaking from?????
     
  12. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    Cliffy,

    I'm sure they didn't mind competition back then, because it took focus away from then while they were scamming everyone out of billions of dollars...duh.
     
  13. Wick

    Wick New Member

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    Does HCA own RHC? If so, maybe HCA is getting back at LHC for its move from Leesburg to Lansdowne? Hmmmm.... Whatever the motivation, I'm still pro-hospital.
     
  14. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    boomy-
    And they paid back billions of dollars, rather than sticking the bill on the backs of employees and taxpayers, like another Ashburn-based business did. Anybody protesting MCI?
    And, as previously pointed out, none of this fraud occurred in Virginia.
    An old argument against HCA and, therefore, against Reston Hospital and BRMC.
    If this is someone's objection to the hospital, I can understand that.

    Wick-
    Yes, HCA owns Reston Hospital.
     
  15. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Wow, another blow to the "not-for-profits care about the community and for-profits are evil money mongers, making money on the backs of the sick" argument:
    As reported in the Washington Post last Friday, several not-for-profit hospitals, including Inova, are being sued for over-charging uninsured patients, and then using strong-armed tactics to collect the money.
    With stories like this, it's easy to see why not-for-profits tax-exempt status is coming into question.

    The local case cited involved a Herndon man. It was also interesting to note that he had reached an arrangement with Reston Hospital (a for-profit hospital) regarding his bills there. Looks like the local for-profit hospital does a better job of taking care of the uninsured than the massive not-for-profit Inova hospital.
     
  16. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    Hey, there wasn't any activity for a while, so I figured I would start some 8)

    The fraud perpetrated by MCI wasn't against its customers.

    ---

    Shortchanging the community and patients:- Columbia was accused of anticompetitive behaviour and of giving financial considerations priority over community needs. Decisions were made centrally and not at the community level. There was a lack of commitment to any particular community.

    Columbia/HCA was alleged to have closed needed local community hospitals once it had secured market position with control of all hospital facilities in the region.

    It was claimed that when compared with not for profit services it did not invest in costly services as readily and the amount of charitable and indigent care provided was much lower. Charges were consistently higher and any cost savings were due to one factor only, staff reductions. This was not as claimed due to purchasing power. They were accused of cherry picking profitable admissions, cream skimming and patient dumping

    Larger profits were made by Columbia/HCA through charges which were substantially higher, by not providing expensive and less profitable services, and by reducing staff levels. These profits were passed to shareholders and did not benefit the community.
     
  17. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    Gosh, I wonder what promises HCA made to this community to build there and provide state of the art services and Trauma care...


    SJ Council Opposes Medical Center Closure
    Medical Center Slated To Close In December

    POSTED: 10:15 pm PDT October 5, 2004

    SAN JOSE, Calif. -- The San Jose City Council approved the creation of a letter Tuesday condemning the announced closure of the San Jose Medical Center.

    Councilmembers voted unanimously to approve the letter, which will be sent to Nashville-based Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), the owners of the hospital slated for closure.

    HCA announced last month that the San Jose Medical Center would close its doors on Dec. 9, leaving downtown residents without a nearby medical facility and Santa Clara County residents with only two trauma centers.

    The City Council also voted to conduct an appraisal of the 81-year-old hospital's site, as well as what options the city has in retaining a downtown medical center.

    "In San Jose, 89 percent of emergency calls are medical-related," Councilwoman Cindy Chavez said. "Whether we like it or not, we are in the health-care business."

    Chavez and fellow Councilwoman Nora Campos held a town hall meeting Monday to address the impending closure, with more than 250 city residents and health-care advocates showing up to address HCA officials who were also in attendance.

    About 40 speakers urged HCA to delay the closure and to consider selling the facility to other potential buyers in the health-care industry.

    HCA officials are refusing to delay the deadline due to already mounting financial losses and also have refused to sell the facility to any competitors, HCA spokeswoman Leslie Kelsay said.

    Kelsay said the city could preserve the site by invoking eminent domain, however the city would be forced to pay fair-market value.

    Council spokesman David Vossbrink said the city would not likely be able to afford the purchase of the hospital due to the recent budget crisis.

    HCA anticipates demolishing the hospital prior to the sale of the site, which Kelsay expects to go on the market in early 2005.

    Mayor Ron Gonzales also sent a letter to California Attorney General Bill Lockyer on Monday asking for a review of HCA's sudden decision to close the hospital, which was originally scheduled for closure in 2007.

    "We believe that HCA has a special legal and social responsibility," Gonzales wrote in the letter. "This signals not only a breach of their commitment to the well-being of our community, but also prevents adequate company and community planning for an effective transition."

    The hospital closure is also expected to leave 450 employees without a job, according to Kelsay.
     
  18. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Donna,

    I've heard you have continued to send out misleading correspondents claiming "independent views" (albeit your employers, Loudoun Hospital) and then cloaking it around your roll as a HOA Board member.

    Would you like to have an opportunity to clarify, as I've heard this from multiple sources? I assume it might be old information based on the responses of the earlier incidents. If so, that would be good news. Is it true?

    Oh, and once again, you've posted something without a source. Always good to consider the source and what bias may exist in the interpretation.

     
  19. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    Given HCA's original venture's into this area some years ago (seeking partnership, gaining joint venture, then being dissolved from then-Arlington Hospital), I find it interesting that the hospitals they are closing to consolidate and move are in Arlington and next door in Alexandria. Target there to establish a base and gain some (movable) assets? It could appear that they are still following the pattern of target, move in, take over. Which is pretty hard to paint as "enhance" once they've done their thing.

    AFGM: Maybe not my business, but if Cliff (who is a member of the Broadlands board) said Donna hadn't done anything wrong on an earlier issue, is it really the place of anyone who is not a member of the Broadlands HOA to insinuate and accuse a Broadlands HOA member? I talk about my own HOA, but I'm not going to come here and do it. You know those glass houses, eh, friend?

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  20. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    AFGM, once again you are trying to undermine my credibility and right to forward information. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "misleading correspondents"...etc. If you could provide a source for your information as you say "it's always good to consider the source and what bias may exist in the interpretation" I would better be able to address your question. To answer your question about the source of the article, I get many news alerts, most of which I don't forward, doing a web search on HCA would probably be the easiest way for you to find out about the many recent HCA dealings and events. Again I would ask that you provide to me the misleading information I am said to have "cloaked" and then sent out, I would like to be able to address it. I will wait for that information. Thanks
     

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