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HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses? (merged)

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by frostsh, May 6, 2008.

  1. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    This number drop just recently occured within the last few weeks. And as she stated at the meeting as soon as she gets her license she will be returning to the large number.
    We have talked to her and her answer was again, to have everyone park on someone elses street and walk down.. This does not help...
    Dont get me wrong, Im not upset at home based day care.. But do it right.. from the start
     
  2. lilpea

    lilpea Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    ok both of which are Vdot streets

    if there is a concern (ei traffic - parking)
    IMO - this is a matter that Vdot and/or LCSO would look into - but I'm not well versed in this topic.

    But then the question - which came first the chicken or the egg?

    Since the traffic is originating from a home based business is it the HOA responsibility to adjudicate in this matter? Yes and No - for the license maybe - traffic issues I could see the HOA differing the issue.
     
  3. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    My child attends an in-home preschool in Lansdowne. Before the teacher/homeowner purchased her home she checked with the HOA about whether or not it was okay by the covenants. She was told IN WRITING that it was, that as long as the business was fully licensed and legal the HOA made the decisions on a case-by-case basis. If they had been told that it was not acceptable they would have purchased a home elsewhere.

    After the HOA was turned over from the developer to the residents, an individual complained about a daycare near his home and it became an issue of all home-businesses, but particularly daycare/preschool. In fact, the daycare he opposed was an unlicensed one. Meetings were held, concerns voiced, documents presented, and lawyers eventually were hired on both sides. At this point the home businesses are forbidden in Lansdowne and my child's preschool owner has a lien placed on her home by the HOA. That lien goes on record and on credit reports, I believe. Litigation continues on that front.

    As parents of children attending the school, we have been instructed to make pickup and dropoff as quickly as possible and to drive slowly and carefully down the street to the school (in a wide cul-de-sac). The owner's neighbors signed a petition last year in the school owner's favor, stating that it was not a problem for them. Our drop off period takes about 5 minutes and pickup about the same. Admittedly, sometimes we moms spend a little longer standing outside chatting if we arrive early, which we are not supposed to do. We try not to do this, and I, for one, drive to a nearby community center and sit in the parking lot if I am running early. The owner has a very good relationship with the neighbors on her street and in fact some of the children in her neighborhood have attended her school.

    If you read the thread on this board about the KinderCare issues, you'll understand why many parents look to in-home centers to care for their children. With only two employees at my daughter's school, I know who is around my child while she is at school and have input as to how she is treated and what she learns.

    What else...? The only issue I see as a problem with these in-home businesses is making sure they don't bother the neighbors. At my daughter's school they are inside most of the time and spend about 15 minutes with outdoor playtime. School is in session weekdays from around 8-12, so no extra traffic in the afternoon. I imagine with a daycare the traffic can be more erratic as parents come and go on their own schedules, but still this is an issue to discuss with neighbors.

    After a year or so of dealing with this issue, what I have to say is to try hard to address this type of issue on a case-by-case basis. People's lives and incomes are invested in these businesses. There are enough foreclosures around Ashburn to not try to run people off on purpose!

    If Little Sprouts is new the the area, communication with neighbors is especially important. People don't like the idea of some newcomer moving in and disturbing their formerly quiet street, I'm sure. If you're going to operate a home-based business (especially daycare types) in Ashburn, it pays to do your homework and follow the rules, since we've already seen the potential for legal issues in Lansdowne.

    I'll get off my soapbox now, but I figured I had some experience to add to the discussion. :)
     
  4. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Not to sound argumentative BUT... :D

    What IS "right"? As I can see it, there are 3 "right way" opinions for most issues. Your way, the daycare providers way and the children's parents way.

    You MAY think that the right way is little to no trafficl, Owner may think minimal traffic at drop-off and pick-up, parents probably want to drop kids off at the door and not have to park on another street.

    IMO, IF, IF the business is legal then they have certain rights and this includes usage of the street they live on. As long as traffic (and any other issue) is not hazardous (by fact, not opinion) then there should be no concerns.

    .02
     
  5. cpamom2twins

    cpamom2twins New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    I think some comments have strayed from the original post, if the HOA restricts home based daycare what happens to other home based businesses.

    My daughter attends the preschool, and in defense of the preschool and its administrator, she has now complied with state and county zoning and licensing requirements. She provided tax information for day care expenses to me, so I’m not sure about the secondhand information posted above. I’ve received multiple e-mails from her asking parents to drive safely and be considerate of her neighbors. I think she has tried to offer solutions to neighbors and maintain relations.

    What I am hearing here and from the resident on the street sounds petty and school girlish. If the issue is traffic in and out of the cul-de-sac for dropping off and picking up school children, then what about another cul-de-sac that is very close to an elementary school (Thornhill for example) where every morning and afternoon cars are parked as parents drop off and pick up children from school? Driveways and mailboxes are blocked and children are everywhere. Are we saying that parents cannot drive anymore to drop off and pick up children or is there a double standard somewhere?

    Lets return to the issue of whether the HOA should restrict a home business as to the number of students or the time of day it may operate or the services offered. If a home business is legal then it should be allowed to operate under the legal statutes. If the HOA restricts home based businesses what is next, monthly bunko nights or Fourth of July BBQ’s or Thanksgiving, Christmas and Passover celebrations?
     
  6. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    I took the "right way" remark as meaning to take steps to become licensed first, not after you're been in business for a year.

     
  7. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    I agree
     
  8. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    This is exactly the type of question that was raised in Lansdowne by many people. Those people may or may not have cared or been affected by the daycares but the covenants rule also applied to any business that brought extra traffic in. This included the in-home pediatrician, the insurance agent who had clients visit his home office, the hairstylist, and any business that received shipments from UPS/FedEx, etc. Drawing the line was tough, although in Lansdowne the real targets were the daycares, the other businesses just got caught up in the net.

    Rather than making a new HOA rule and then trying to decide if people could be "grandfathered in" or exceptions could be made, perhaps the board can work as a mediator to help all parties work out an agreeable solution.

    I have never met the woman running Little Sprouts but I am disappointed to hear that she did not apply for licensing prior to opening her business, if that is truly the case. Your comment about operating under legal statutes is a good one, and hopefully this preschool was and is doing so.
     
  9. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Here is a link to a Washington Post article from last May about the Lansdowne home business issue.
     
  10. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    This is all Im trying to say... When you entered into this community you signed a contract to agree to abide, respect, and honor those rules.. Little Sprouts did not do that... Apparently there havent been enough examples made (such as landsdowne), so maybe this will be the one that sticks.
    The kids were fine before she got here, and will continue to be... Maybe she can try again in a year, once she goes thru ALL the proper procedures FIRST..
     
  11. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    There is a distinct difference between the Lansdowne situation and Broadlands.
    The Lansdowne Declaration specifically PROHIBITS home businesses.
    The Broadlands Declaration states that home businesses, such as daycares, may be approved by the HOA.
    The fact that the Lansdowne Developer chose to intentionally violate their own documents (and the cynical side of thinks they'll do anything to sell a house) doesn't make the resident board wrong in enforcing the very documents the Developer created. They even conducted a vote and the results were to keep the ban in place.
     
  12. frostsh

    frostsh New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Wow, just curious, but does it really take a year to go through all the procedures to license a daycare or is that an arbitrary length of time?

    Also, are you saying that once a business is licensed (daycare or otherwise) you would agree that the HOA should allow it to operate under the terms of the license?

    If so, that's what I've been saying all along.
     
  13. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    And I never once disagreed. Yes, I am saying if she was licensed from the beginning it would have been more acceptable to the neighbors..Why, because she would have never had to 12+ kids at a time each day, there is a limit with licensing, and she wouldnt be scurring to get all of these approvals last minute. As far as the others, I cant say.. I dont know the type of traffic or trouble the at home pediatrician, or hairstylest caused.. But as for this, had she come from the start legit, things could have been different.
     
  14. lilpea

    lilpea Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Now I completely understand your frustration - please correct me if I am wrong - but I thought both Loudoun & State of VA have a "ratio limit" (adults to kids) - I thought it was a 4-1 ration?

    FWIW & IMHO: If the business/homeowner of little sprouts (ei 1 care-giver to 12kids) is the sole care giver - well that seems a bit off the County & State guidelines.
     
  15. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    I believe that she has an assistant.. And i also believe the ratio depends on the age of the children.. the older they are the more you can have to -1
     
  16. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    I also suspect that the developer told people yes so they could sell a house. The covenants are considered by some to be unclear on the issue since apparently VA considers daycare a "residential use of property".

    Even so, if the rules state that you cannot have a business then I think people should by all means follow that. However, if you are researching purchasing a home and the covenants are not clear, you look to the developer to clarify. They did, in writing, that it was, in fact, okay. Right or wrong, that is the current situation people are in.

    There was a vote on the issue, but like in many communities, not many people attend the HOA meetings and often times the ones who do typically have an issue on the table. If residents are told that home businesses are not allowed and that some people have them, they may automatically assume that of course they should close. It's possible that the majority of the residents don't care about the issue one way or another and did not follow the issue.

    Yes, Cliff is right that the HOA has a right to enforce the covenants. It's just unfortunate that for Lansdowne the issue had to get so ugly due to the developer's original actions. So as a human issue, people planned their lives around having these businesses and were told it was okay by the officials involved and now after carefully following the guidelines set before them they're being told to close and that's very sad to me.
     
  17. mdcrim

    mdcrim Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Does this mean that, as long as you are compliant with county/ state licensing, you can operate any business out of your home?
     
  18. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Actually, the Lansdowne guidelines were crystal clear in prohibiting home businesses. The Developer looked the other way, approved them, and created a mess for the residents to clean up....Just like the Indoor pool that the RESIDENTS will have to pay millions of dollars to fix because the DEVELOPER screwed it up.
     
  19. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    No, you need to refer to your HOA documents as well to see if you need HOA approval.
     
  20. frostsh

    frostsh New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Our HOA board candidates have weighed in. It looks like there is a difference in views on this one.

    BAKER--"As long as the business is operating in agreement with all local requirements, and the board has approved, they should be allowed to proceed."

    KAPINOS--"If and when we get to a time that a business that has county approval and is operating within those guidelines is still creating issues with traffic, noise etc then I believe the HOA needs to step in and look at requiring stricter regulations then [sic] the county's…My reasoning is traffic and noise issues do not only occur from home based businesses but could also be created by a resident who is a regular entertainer, or was having a girl/boy scout meeting at there home, or a bible study or many many other functions and if we are going to regulate it for one area (ie home businesses) then we need to regulate it for all residents."

    Full posts are at their respective threads.
     

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