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HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses? (merged)

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by frostsh, May 6, 2008.

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  1. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Real simple - you working from home tends not to bring lots of additional cars to your house on a recurring, persistent basis. Having 1-2 people visit you every few days is nothing of the scale where its been a problem with the neighbors.

    There are no proposed restrictions and no one has said there was any. Complaints have been discussed in front of the board.


    I think people are getting emmotional and trying to fight symantecs vs what's actually significant. What is significant (IMO) is how any such action affects the community.

    I don't care what you do in your house as long as its legal and doesn't affect everyone else around you. But if what you are doing is having a long term impact on everyone around you - that raises some ears.

    To me the entire issue is the effect any such activity has on the community. To me it doesn't matter if you are baking cookies, watching kids, or selling makeup - what matters is the external affect your activity has on the surrounding area.

    How do you measure such a thing? First off, ignore the one offs. All the 'well its no different then having a birthday' arguments are off-base. You don't have a birthday party every day, 5-7 days a week, 50+ weeks out of the year. The same goes for any private function. The one-offs are just that - inconveniences that everyone should expect to deal with when you have neighbors.

    This means what should be of interest is not how many at one time, but how many over a time period or as a recurring issue. If you look at things as a issue of how much additional traffic an activity brings, at a recurring interval.. then you start to get something that is interesting. Then its not a matter of what type of business you are, or even if its a business at all... what your business is I really don't care (as long as everything is legal). What I think matters is the impact it may have on the community.

    For noise, etc - there are already county ordinances for such things and are easily enforced if there are problems.

    So what that leaves is traffic. The quotes from both sides of the current day care issue were what was 'excessive' traffic. To me, the way to consider that is by looking at how much additional volume the activity brings in a recurring way. The weighing factors of course are are how often such an activity occurs, how much additional cars it brings, when, the location and its ability to handle such volumes, and the times of these activities.

    The county looks at such issues when looking at licensing businesses - but their maximums do not mean the HOA could not look at restrictions beyond those of the county. There is plenty of presedence where the HOA can be more restrictive then what the county choses to regulate or not.

    To me the home business or not is irrelevant. If the guy on the end of the street holds a poker night 4 nights a week bringing an additional 15 cars every day... I think that would raise some questions.

    Look past your emmotions on the type of activity being discussed and focus on the residual impact... that is what the community should look at if its significant or not. Not if we should allow 'mary kay' vs daycare vs pampered chef, etc.

    The underlying problem is... while its possible to set guidelines to use when reviewing such activities as part of an approval process - its hard to monitor or enforce such limits as no one wants to sit on a curb and monitor this for long periods.
     
    flynnibus, May 13, 2008
    #81
  2. Forum Administrator

    Forum Administrator Member Forum Staff

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    Posts from related thread topics have been merged into this thread
     
    Forum Administrator, May 13, 2008
    #82
  3. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: Regarding LITTLE SPROUTS PRESCHOOl

    I was on Fernbrook Court this morning and observed several cars come and go. None of them were driving too fast.
    Obviously, I may have missed the one you saw.
     
    vacliff, May 13, 2008
    #83
  4. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Valid points. Do you not draw a distinction from a social use of a home and one that uses it to run a business and make money?
     
    vacliff, May 13, 2008
    #84
  5. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    Re: Regarding LITTLE SPROUTS PRESCHOOl

    Odds are the cars are not speeding. The homeowners who have concerns have most likely witnessed speeding and since it is now more of an issue, the perception is that most of the cars now speed. Because that is what they expect to see.

    We all do it from time to time.

    I quite often yell at people on village to slow down (seriously, people do 45-50 on this busy road). One day I got yelled at and I was doing 25 MPH. I think the street environmet has something to do with it also. A think a tight, small street, like some in SW - Courtyard or a cul-de-sac will lend to people thinking that a car is going to fast.
     
    T8erman, May 14, 2008
    #85
  6. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: Jeremy Baker running for the HOA board

    Well these "two" who are no longer in your program, must have just within the last 24 hours been removed, becase on this pass Tuesday there was speeding down Fern Brook. It seems to me like Mr Baker is saying "its not his fault the parents speed". And, Tax payer dollars used to control traffic with police or security officers for YOUR business on a cul de sac is utterly ridiculous.. Are you serious.
     
    Mrs Smith, May 14, 2008
    #86
  7. Mazinger

    Mazinger New Member

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    Re: Jeremy Baker running for the HOA board

    If the UPS guy drops a package off at my house and speeds away. Is that my fault?
     
    Mazinger, May 14, 2008
    #87
  8. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: Jeremy Baker running for the HOA board

    NO that is not your fault, and happens on rare occasions. But 5 days a week,, Yes, I would say it would be your fault,because you know about these daily "deliveries" (and you would have spoken to the driver by now) And if your driver just doesnt care, then guess what. You STOP getting the deliveries. Again, I say.. You can say its not your fault your parents wont slow down.. but unfortunatly it falls on you.
     
    Mrs Smith, May 14, 2008
    #88
  9. Mazinger

    Mazinger New Member

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    Re: Jeremy Baker running for the HOA board

    OK. So lets say the parents end up driving 10MPH through the streets. Would you be fine with the daycare?

    Is it the speeding that bugs you or the fact that numerous strange cars are driving back and forth down a public street in front of your house?
     
    Mazinger, May 14, 2008
    #89
  10. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: Jeremy Baker running for the HOA board

    Its the fact that for over a year an unlicensed daycare started out with a few cars in and out, then went to a whole bunch of cars in and out, and is now back down to a few cars (since licensing inspection), and will be back up to many cars(as she stated herself) when and if the decesion is made by the HOA.
     
    Mrs Smith, May 14, 2008
    #90
  11. frostsh

    frostsh New Member

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    Cliff, you raise an interesting point. In my initial post (as the title suggests), I was focused on home-based businesses. However, given the discussion to date, it seems that the "concerns" that people have relate more to "traffic" and "safety" than to making money. I believe that any activity that attracts many visitors on a regular basis could give rise to these concerns. The money-making aspects of the preschool in question don't seem to give folks much pause. I don't want to speak for anyone, but if that school were free, I think there would still be strong feelings about it.

    If the HOA board were to decide to "go beyond" the current government regulations (zoning, business licenses, social services, etc.) for businesses, it would only seem fair that those same rules would apply to any activity that gave rise to the "concerns" being addressed. I believe in her response, Stacy indicated as much when she said that such considerations should apply to social and business activities (I'm paraphrasing).

    I think we've come full circle with the original question of whether we're at the top of a "slippery slope." I'm definitely interested to see if the board decides to step forward and I, for one, hope that they won't.
     
    frostsh, May 14, 2008
    #91
  12. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    Re: Regarding LITTLE SPROUTS PRESCHOOl

    Well I am not going to stand out there and video tape each and every car, and maybe you missed "that one" or a few, but it happens.. Its happening. I dont think and entire row of houses would be saying the same thing if it wasnt a problem. If you sit outside 5 mornings a week and watch you'll see it. And I saw you Mr Prez walking around that morning, and maybe someone gave her a heads up that you where there, and they slowed down.
     
    Mrs Smith, May 14, 2008
    #92
  13. Sunny

    Sunny Chief Advisor

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    I don't think Staci was in support of such a regulation, if I am not mistaken. I think she just wants everyone to consider the possible problems if regulation were to take place. And it would certainly be a problem IMHO.
     
    Sunny, May 14, 2008
    #93
  14. Mr. FAN

    Mr. FAN New Member

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    Call the Loudoun County Sherriff's Traffic Safety Office at 703-771-5798 (choose Option 1). The more complaints they receive about a specific street or area, the better chance there is to have them step up their patrols. Provide them with as much detail as possible (times/street name)
     
    Mr. FAN, May 15, 2008
    #94
  15. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild New Member

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    So Mr. Flynnibus if I am reading you correctly your problem is only with the additional traffic a home business brings to the development is that correct? So then I propose this question to you. I am selling classic cars parts on ebay or other web sites, which requires FedEx, UPS, DHL etc to come by my house daily. This activity would be frowned upon by your standards of traffic correct? Before you answer this activity is a hobby, not a business.
     
    Thunderchild, May 15, 2008
    #95
  16. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild New Member

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    Re: Jeremy Baker running for the HOA board

    Mrs. Smith, I will pose a question to you. In 10 years or so your kids are in High School and they are popular and dozens of thier friends drive over to visit, do you think your neighbors will have the right to complain about extra traffic this activity creates?
     
    Thunderchild, May 15, 2008
    #96
  17. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    One of my thresholds as I mentioned would be about capacity to handle the traffic. Regardless of how many different shipping companies you can name, its highly unlikely that you'd find them all coming to your house at the same time. It's not a very good analogy.

    Having 20 cars on a street at one time is massively different from having 20 cars on a street spread over 72 hours.

    Two - your delivery trucks would probably never reach levels that I (personally) would probably consider excessive simply because those vendors aren't going to keep coming to your house repeatedly because its not cost effective for them. They may make their 2-3 trips tops - but again eventually they will look for efficiency as well.

    This is why a pure number of cars is not really valid. I think any such quantification would be a function that takes into account the location (example, through street vs dead-end, parking, open space, etc), frequency, and consistency. Probably the last factors being quantified by simply looking at trips as a longer term time period to normalize any spikes from regular activities (such as occasional parties, etc).

    When someone moves on the block, and a 18 wheeler blocks the street for 6hrs. That's an inconvenience. But you know what, they do don't do it every day, they don't even do it regularly - so any inconvenience is simply what happens when you have neighbors.
     
    flynnibus, May 15, 2008
    #97
  18. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: Regarding LITTLE SPROUTS PRESCHOOl

    Now you're being ridiculous. And you're not adding credibility to your argument with your (as I interpret it) snooty "Mr Prez" comment.
    My wife and I decided to go for a walk. Because of this issue I decided to walk down Fernbrook.
    I guess I am guilty of listening to resident concerns and taking time out of my day to investigate things; something very, very few of our Board members do. I even stated in my post that I obviously did not see every car, but you still chose to offer up a ridiculous possibility.
    I'm sure the Baker's have all of their customers on walkie talkie, have look outs around the neighborhood, and the call went out........"Keirce coming down the street, Keirce coming down the street!!!!"
    Give me a break.
    Your credibilty with me is gone, Mrs. Smith
     
    vacliff, May 15, 2008
    #98
  19. Chsalas

    Chsalas Active Member

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    Re: Regarding LITTLE SPROUTS PRESCHOOl

    Doesn't everyone?

    hahahaha
     
    Chsalas, May 15, 2008
    #99
  20. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Re: HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses?

    A book club meeting is a social gathering.
    Scouts are an organization.
    Mary Kay is a business.

    Our HOA documents specifically mention "business". It doesn't mention social events or organizations.

    Do people see the distinction here? Or not?
     
    vacliff, May 15, 2008
    #100
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