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HOA Mail-In Survey about HCA

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by Forum Administrator, Dec 11, 2003.

  1. einstein

    einstein New Member

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    To all Broadlands Residents,

    Although I applaud the intent of this survey to actually capture the opinions of residents and exercise one of the rights we have in this country (Many thanks to all current and former military personnel and their families for their sacrifices!) it was not conducted in a fair nor impartial manner.
    1. Suspect is the order of the “choices”. Research has proven the order of choices on surveys can and does skew the results. That’s why in elections the order of candidates is altered.
    2. Bad timing: Why now and not before the Board meets and decisions are made. I suggest being more proactive to inform people and afford them the opportunity discover the facts for themselves and attend the presentations, meetings etc. This would have better served all to make an “intelligent choice.
    3. Requiring people to sign their names to “validate” the vote, whether for or against HCA violates an individuals’ right to privacy and is especially suspect. If the results are as important as many believe it is, the residents deserve to have it done professionally and anonymously. What is preventing someone to copy the survey and falsify the results by sending in under another’s name? Remember one falsified vote negates the entire survey.
    4. It was mentioned in a post that costs were the reason for the conducting the survey in the manner it was. Not acceptable! The residents of the Broadlands are Professional and appreciate being treated as such, therefore would have understood the additional costs. RECOMMENDATION: Re-allocate the money budgeted in the social budget and NOT purchase alcohol for Broadlands sponsored events, especially after the underage drinking event of recent putting all residents at risk for a lawsuit. I suggest this board and Armstrong management are at fault for such a gross oversight. BTW: Does not Armstrong management work FOR the Board? If so, then the burden is with this Board.
    5. As a resident who followed the instructions against my better judgment, I request and demand results are not shared with any organization outside of the Loudoun County Board to include HCA
    6. Lastly and most important, the results will be presented to the board ONLY if a majority (greater than 50%) of TOTAL Homes in the Broadlands, NOT homes participating in the survey. i.e. minority sampling making decision for majority of homeowners. This is imperative to validate the survey and ensure the integrity of the results.
     
  2. chris

    chris New Member

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    Cliff: First, I want to say that I have nothing against you as a person. You seem sincere in your beliefs. You say I am "wrong," but I think that you are. So, it seems like we will never agree about the hospital, but thankfully the Commonwealth and the HSA decide this issue. Fortunately, they keep saying NO despite HCA's bankroll!

    Also, I'd like to thank you for continuing to make jokes about the survey. And people wonder why some people on here have questions about it!?! To address your latest points, you admit that the HOA and its contractors or employees have run this survey. To be valid, all parties involved should have been totally neutral. Where is the arms-length distance in your process? Your only answer can be there is none.

    GCyr: First of all, I also want to state that I have nothing against you as a person either! You are very opinionated, but so am I. We happen to think differently, so there is some clash. That's fine with me. I just am sorry to hear that you are not getting a gift from HCA this year. Heck, man, you deserve one, don't you think??? I'm not saying that they are buying you off, but it would be nice for them to recognize your support for golly's sake! And, no, I do not expect anything from Loudoun Hospital. Loudoun Hospital saved the life of the person dearest to me, and I am forever indebted to them. That's not why I have questions about HCA. Oh, no! HCA has enough wrong with it already, and its plan to drop a hospital in the middle of the Broadlands just makes it worse.
     
  3. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Wow, the paranoia is amazing. Even before the votes are published people are attacking the survey. Makes you wonder why anti-healthcare supports are so freaked out about a simple survey. The results are still an unknown, I guess the energy required to do a pre-emptive strike is warranted in the minds of those concerned they will not like the results.



     
  4. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Einstein-
    To address your points:
    1) Can't respond on this, since I have never studied or researched "choices".
    2) The timing meets your concerns. We had been informed that this issue may have been brought up at a January Board meeting. We wanted to get the results as close to that meeting so we could supply the results. I have since been informed it will be a few more months before it is heard.
    3) We need to have the names so we can verify the surveys were returned by Broadlands residents and that there was only one vote per household. As I mentioned, this is the same procedure we use for electing our HOA Board members.
    4) Thanks for your opinions on costs and where we should allocate our resources. Not sure of the allegation about "under age drinking event." If it was in reference to the pool party two years ago, the truth did not match the sensationalized accounts that were being spread. If it was something more recent, I would like to know about it. Armstrong Management has nothing to do with the social activities of the Broadlands HOA.
    5) Our intent is to make the results public, and I'll be posting shortly to explain the results. They will also be published in a future edition of our newsletter. Obviously, no names will be associated with any votes since we do not have that information.
    6) All vote counts will be presented.

    With all due respect, I have no idea if you are even a Broadlands resident, so any demands and requests you make of the HOA here have no weight.
     
  5. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Hi folks-
    Here are the preliminary results of the survey. I say preliminary because we will count any additional surveys we receive in the next week. I will post a final result then.
    Six people were involved in the tallying tonight. The process took 3 1/2 hours. Those present included 2 HOA Board members, 2 residents that support the hospital and 2 residents that oppose it.
    We received 739 returned surveys out of approximately 2000 mailed out. This is a return of 37%.
    The names were validated with a master list of all residents. This ensured the surveys were from Broadlands residents and that only one per household was counted.
    The surveys were then tabulated by the group. The breakdown is as follows:
    292 of 694 valid surveys (42%) support the hospital.
    320 of 694 valid surveys (46%) oppose the hospital.
    67 of 694 valid surveys (10%) have not received enough information.
    15 of 694 valid surveys (2%) have no opinion.

    45 surveys were not valid. 43 had no return address and did not enclose the sheet with their name and address. 2 were duplicates from the same address. Of these surveys that were not counted, 20 supported the hospital, 14 opposed, and 11 had either two choices selected or no choices selected.

    Any additional surveys received will be counted in the same manner.
     
  6. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Thanks, Cliff! I daresay that if you project that on a bell curve it's gonna be a tight race with no clear mandate. Happy Happy Joy Joy!
     
  7. killer_bee

    killer_bee New Member

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    I haven't been in the forums for about a week, but what a pleasure it is to log in and see this! What the survey proves is the following:

    - The pro-HCA, admittedly-biased HOA was not able to force its will on the MAJORITY of residents that have been forced to endure mis-leading ads from HCA as well as distortions of reality from HCA's MINORITY of ho$pital supporters here in the Broadlands! Despite being constantly lied to, the Broadlands community figured out the truth!

    - Even though the HOA controlled the whole survey process, they could not "shred" enough anti-ho$pital surveys or otherwise manipulate the outcome enough becuase the good folks on here pointed out problems with the survey and shed light on how the HOA was trying to conduct a survey designed to skew the results toward HCA's favor. THANK YOU TO THOSE OF YOU WHO MADE THIS PROCESS BETTER!

    Now a question for Cliff... Why are YOU holding the survey open AFTER the original deadline? Above you state, "...we will count any additional surveys we receive in the next week." Wasn't the response deadline December 15? Are you trying to manipulate the outcome so the result favors HCA? I wonder what you are going to be doing over the next week to "find" more pro-HCA responses.

    What gives you to change the rules mid-stream? How is that fair?

    killer_bee in broadands, ashburn, virginia
     
  8. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Let's not jump the gun here. There are alot of votes left to count and it could easily swing the other way.
     
  9. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    I just sent mine in -- I was lazy. Had this been an internet survey, I would have done it the day I received it! =)

    I voted no because I did not like HCA -- I'm not opposed to a hospital that much.
     
  10. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    KillerBee-
    Where ya been buddy? You post that you want to be there to count the ballots, I invite you numerous times, but you don't show up on the forums again until after it's over, then continue to lodge complaints and accusations.
    You are priceless.
     
  11. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    vacliff - can residents still vote? We did not receive a survey as we moved recently into Southern Walk from another Broadlands section. BTW, I vote yea for the hospital more so because of the anti-hospital whiners than any other reason.
    Also, I do not think the survey is valid because of EVERY reason the anti-hospital people spouted. Are we sure there were no anti-hospital people shredding votes? I would not be surprised if they had a mole in the HOA. Maybe they have someone in the post office who did not deliver to the obvious pro-hospital people. Hell, I would not be surprised if the have Osama and bring him out just in case the hospital does get approved! Inquiring minds need to know these things! :)
     
  12. einstein

    einstein New Member

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    Cliff, Had you read my post "that I followed the instructions"... it would be obvious I am a resident. Thanks for the timely response.
     
  13. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    Lord knows Cliff and I do not agree on this hospital issue, however I feel I must come to his defense (who would have thought that). The process of the vote counting was fair, unbiased and as democratic as it was possible. As far as Cliff saying more votes will be counted, we all agreed that is fine, however the deadline for the votes was to have been postmarked by the 15th, any votes with a postmark past the 15th will not be included in the results as they are not valid and past the deadline. You will be happy to know that Greg did not bring his paper shredder as we all had to pass through a metal detector to enter. (joke) However there were a lot of sharp envelope openers on the table...hmmmmmm makes you wonder...:)
     
  14. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Excellent work on this project to all involved. Good leadership! Very interesting results. Seems pretty obvious there is not a majority against the hospital as KillerBee continues to tout. No mandate either way. Actually, I am surprised, I had thought there would be more against the hospital, based on the fervor of those opposed to it. Also, the response percentage is very impressive. Shows a strong community, actively interested in their neighborhood. Broadlands should be proud of the participation.

     
  15. chris

    chris New Member

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    Setting aside all concerns about the validity of the survey, what the results show, first of all, is that the pro-HCA forces do not have the majority that they have claimed all along. Second, there is majority of folks in the Broadlands who oppose the hospital despite incessant pro-HCA propaganda (now on our TVs, too!). Third, HCA just needs to go away -- the State has weighed in, our elected leaders oppose HCA, the courts oppose HCA, and now the residents have noted their opposition.

    Also, I agree with Donna that is reasonable to count valid surveys with a postmark of December 15 or earlier.

    Finally, I am glad that there were no shredders at the meeting! Whew!
     
  16. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    What survey did you smoke!!! These convoluted conclusions show no relevance to the results.

     
  17. einstein

    einstein New Member

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    Donna,
    You cannot in good consciende exclude any votes postmarked past the 15th. The "deadline" was extended once for no specific reason. DO IT AGAIN. This is the Holiday season and mail can be slow or temporarily lost as Cliff eluded to (blamed) in an earlier post. Do the right thing and extend the deadline again because it's the right thing to do.
     
  18. Donna

    Donna New Member

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    It really isnt up to me about the deadline, however that is what the word means...deadline, cut off point, time to put a stop to, not to continue, if we kept it open and specified no deadline, votes could be coming in until next year. 1 vote either way is not going to make a difference...28 might, but I seriously doubt that 28 people forgot to mail it in by the 15th. Time will tell but keeping it open for an undetermined time is not the right thing to do. Sorry if you forgot to mail it in but 739 of your neighbors remembered.
     
  19. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    The survey proves nothing. It is an ever so slight moral victory for the "anti" folks based on the numbers. Unless EVERY homeowner, and by this I mean anyone who has their name on a mortgage, casts a vote, the survey will remain somehat baseless in my opinion. I would have said this if the "pro" folks had a slight advantage. All polls/surveys, unless it is finite always has a margin of error, typically in the 3-5 point range. So yes, even more people MAY OR MAY NOT be in favor for the hospital.
    I think the HOA should have saved the money and used it towards more alcohol at other events.
    Kudos to those who DID work on the survey tho.
     
  20. sunnydog

    sunnydog New Member

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    Thanks to all who were involved for conducting the survey and the process you took to count my vote.
    I was in the 10% who felt I did not have enough information to make an informed decision. I look forward to the next public form, if there is one, to hear from all sides.
     

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