I bet they didn't teach this in drivers ed!

I actually had a long discussion with this (my brother is a Virginia State Trooper so I had is undivided attention...and he's familiar with both intersections) and he said that if it's not marked as straight only, then you can legally turn right there when the light is green (i.e. he wouldn't write you a ticket) because there is nothing saying that you cannot turn right, nor is there a law that he can apply to write you a ticket for that. He would ticket you though if you make a right on red from the center lane--that is definitely against the law.

His biggest concern, however, was that VDOT has not marked the lane as straight only, straight & right hand turn, etc. which he agreed would cause confusion and a potential accident. All I was relaying was that *legally* you can turn from that lane. I personally don't do it--until it's marked I'm not going to turn there, but I was just passing on what he said. There was no need to be rude.

 

Actually, I believe there are signs on the side of the road that give the direction of travel, as well as painted road lane arrows.

Or am I thinking of another intersection ??

 

§ 46.2-846. Required position and method of turning at intersections; local regulations.

A. Except where turning is prohibited, a driver intending to turn at an intersection or other location on any highway shall execute the turn as provided in this section.

1. Right turns: Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway

I would interpret that as saying you may only turn right from the far right lane unless otherwise allowed by a sign.

You may want to ask him how he interprets that code

 

Look, I'm on your side here. I was just stating that since the lane is not marked with painted arrows, and/or indicated on the stoplight itself, that indicates that you must go straight OR you can go straight or right AND there is no sign on the stoplight that says that as well, *legally* you could turn from that lane when the light is green.

The law stated above is for when you are making a right turn in general unless otherwise marked. There are plenty of intersections that are marked where people can turn right from two lanes. If you apply the above law literally, then you're saying that police can ticket someone turning from a center lane that is *marked* to turn right because it isn't technically the lane closest to the curb.

The biggest problem here is that the lane is not marked. Each lane should have markings--they do it at all the glorious 4 way stops here in Ashburn, but for some reason they haven't done it for those two intersections. VDOT has already been notified of this problem, they are just not quick to respond.

 

Agreed!

 

There is no sign in the lane to the left of center either. Does that mean you can turn right from that lane as well?

Quailpond, I am not flaming you here all I am saying is I think your brother is mistaken. The statute specifically states "Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway"
I don't see how that can be interpreted any other way. You may want to ask him to look at that code in his book again.

 

Interpeting the law isnt up to Cops, thats for lawyers and judges. Cops do have leeway to make split second judgements on particular laws such as DIP or Reckless Driving due to the vagueness of wording. The judge will decide if the interpretation was correct.

Anyone on here a traffic lawyer?

 

I did not ask about the other center lane, but I'd be glad to if you really want the answer.

You may be right, and I don't know what your background is, but personally, I trust my brother--he's the one with the badge. In addition, the 3 other troopers that were eating with me agreed with him, so I defer to them and I was just passing on what they said--I didn't get the law number, etc. etc.

Am I going to take a right turn from that lane? Nope. I only asked him about whether or not it was legal b/c I saw other people doing it. Do I think it's safe to do so without any markers indicating that you can? Nope, but I think that's something VDOT needs to fix.

 

here's a case where SIZE MATTERS. when I contacted vdot to ask about making a second turning lane at both the Waxpool-Farmwell/ Waxpool int. and the LCP/Waxpool int- their response was as follows:

the farmwell/waxpool int is TOO SMALL (inside turning lane does not have legal amount of clearance) to support two turning lanes. it should stay illegal to turn right from the center there- they should lengthen that green time on the light to allow more cars to pass to ease the pain.

the LCP/Waxpool intersection IS large enough to support it (lanes ample in number and size) and that was going to be brought up at the next meeting.

SO- it SHOULD be LEGAL to turn right from the center lane- it simply isn't marked yet. That green should ALSO be longer given the volume of right turns being made from LCP onto Waxpool.

it's not about thinking your time is more precious than someone else's it's a matter of forcing the county to take a SIMPLE action that is desperately needed to ease congestion. bombard vdot with requests to mark the road and share your concern over potential accidents because so many people already turn right from that center lane, and maybe we'll get some paint there.

 

why shouldn't it be legal flynnibus? maybe you are misinterpreting my intention with that statement: it should be legal because the road can support it and the volume of traffic demands it. so why shouldn't they just paint the road and legalize the turn, in you opinion? do you think we're better off ticketing everyone for turning from an underutilaized straight lane, and having 50+ cars lined up rather than slapping some paint on the pavement?


it's not a matter of because i CAN, I should be ALLOWED, as your lawn statement implies. it's because there's a NEED, and the means EXIST, it should be done.

 

I think what flynnibus is saying is until it is painted as such it is illegal not that there is a problem with it being painted as a turn lane. And yes everyone that is turning from a underutilaized straight lane should be ticketed until VDOT decides to paint it a turn lane. I have not problem with it being painted, what I have a problem with is people who are truning while it is not painted.
My suggestion is all of you that want this lane as a turn lane need to band together and get VDOT to listen. That is the only way to get any results from them.

 

You know, I took a good look at a similiar intersection [waxpool/waxpool] this morning. The right turn lane is clearly defined as right turn only. I've been driving in VA 16+ years and it usually is clearly stated if right turn from center is allowed. I would take that to mean the center lane is straight only unless implicitly stated. Otherwise everyone can assume that they can do how they please in any lane they please b/c it's not signed that you can.

For example, it doesn't say you can't turn left from the right center lane, but I bet left center lane would have an issue with it if they were going straight.

 

16 years? Pfft. Newbie.

 

Here's the real question. With all the traffic here, why do they WASTE a lane by making one striped?

Let's say you're coming up Claiborne Parkway from McDonald's toward the Safeway Shopping Center. You want to turn left at the 4-way at Claiborne and Broadlands Blvd to go to Safeway.

Wouldn't it speed things way up if those who wanted to turn left could do so in the "striped" lane while others in the regular lane could go straight?

I see this all over the place around here.

And definitely agree there should be a second turn lane onto Waxpool after MCI. No need for those obnoxiously long lines.

To be honest, I work 8 minutes from my house so it doesn't affect me much. But it just seems like a waste of lanes.

 

My guess is that 2 lanes of traffic in each direction is the maximum number of lanes allowed at 4 way stop for safety reasons. While it would be more efficient to have the additional lanes, it becomes much harder for people to manage who goes when if you have the additional lanes of traffic.

Anyone ever see a 4-way stop with more than 2 lanes in each direction?

 

I agree with Wes - even with ONE lane in each direction most folks around here are 4-way stop challenged.....