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Local fuel price jumps

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by volvo_nut, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. volvo_nut

    volvo_nut Member

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    On Sunday the Sunoco was $3.99 (premium and diesel). I went back today to top off and premium is $4.07 and diesel is $4.08. That's a significant jump in 48hrs.

    I believe 87 octane is listed at $3.89 and 89 $3.99. I know we are lower than other States but its just tough to see our prices finally heading over $4. :(
  2. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Because of this we'll probably drive our Prius when we go on vacation instead of our small SUV. When the prices are this high the difference in MPG really hits the wallet.
  3. cobymom

    cobymom Sheila Ryan

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    Fuel costs in the UK are over $7 a gallon; wonder if that's why they have so many fuel efficient cars, and actually use public transportation....
  4. tracie

    tracie Member

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    Fuel in the UK is so high because it is taxed at around 85% - the rest of Europe is much cheaper in comparison, and road tax for SUV/Trucks/mini vans type cars is really high aswell - which is why there are way less on those on the roads over there. Its the UK governments way of trying to ensure that people use more fuel efficient cars (aswell as recoup more money to pay debt), and it works!:pofl:

  5. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    UK is the biggest car market in Europe.. I wouldn't really say they are an example of car efficiency. They are very much car-oriented similar to the US.

    Much of their MPG efficiency comes from the adoption of Diesel. Unlike the US, the UK and the rest of Europe have embraced Diesel. The UK also has much more small cars - in part because their infrastructure is so old it can't cope with big Suburbans, etc.


    The government is also very willing to tax and discourage car use in areas (Like the City Congestion Surcharge).

    No one needs 40k Chevy Volts to get 40mpg... the rest of the world has been doing it with Diesel for ages.

    In other areas - gas is even much higher. In Norway they tax you not just by the sticker price of the car.. but based on the engine size and power output. Insurance is through the roof.. and gas costs about $12/gal.

    You don't need to look at other countries to understand what it takes to get people out of cars and onto public transport. There are great examples like NYC right here.

    The key is you have to make cars a hassle and you must provide a viable alternative. If you had to pay $400/month to park you car, pay $10-20/day in tolls, and still have a major hassle to get to/from your car.. where the train offers the same path and is actually easier to get to. You'd reconsider driving too.

    The issue is cars are such a statement of 'freedom' for people in the US that anyone trying to take cars away from people or make them less accessible is going to be committing political suicide because voters in large, are not concerned with the greater good, but themselves.
  6. latka

    latka Active Member

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    I don't want my government taxing my behavior. JMO.
  7. cobymom

    cobymom Sheila Ryan

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    According to CNN, in 2005 gas prices in the Netherlands were 6.48, Norway 6.27, the UK 5.79, Germany 5.57, Japan, 4.24. My point is, that maybe we should count our blessings, get smaller cars, drive more efficiently (i.e., slower!), use more public transportation, walk and ride our bikes more, advocate for better public transportation and alternate forms of energy, etc.

    I drove on the roads in the UK for a few years, (and they do have a lot of cars on their roads!); I rarely saw large cars that got low gas mileage. Mostly lorries that were delivering goods, and they used diesel.

    I think that cheaper, more fuel efficient vehicles (like diesel, and other alternative fuels) could have been a reality long ago, if not for the oil and car companies who have a vested interest in keeping us buying their products, and people who are easily swayed by the propaganda those same companies put out.
  8. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    No - its because buyers in large don't want the compromises.

    If gas were .25/gal - do you think anyone would buy a Volt?

    People can blame the oil industry if they want - but the reality is it's buyer preference and the true cost of roll out that hold things back. Not conspiracies.

    Do people buy SUVs because they've been brainwashed? Or because that's what they chose? We have economic cars.. and have for years. You could buy a Civic that got 40mpg on regular unleaded 10 years ago. But people didn't buy them!

    Gas now has the advantage of economies of scale and vastly deployed infrastructure. That makes it cheap.

    Other technologies without those same two advantages can't just show up overnight and compete.

    Until consumer choice changes - the only way it's going to happen is if you price people out of owning cars or buying gas... or legislate people out of owning cars or being able to buy gas.
  9. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    I think it's a combination of all those things. Some people like big vehicles. Some people don't care about gas mileage. Some people don't think about the environmental impact. For some people it's a status symbol to drive and to drive a big car. The oil industry has a vested interested in keeping itself profitable so they will make and push what makes money for them. If people are still making their choices irrespective of gas mileage and environmental impacts then that's what the car companies will make.

    My neighbor drove a Jeep Wrangler for years because it was what he liked. He didn't care about the poor gas mileage.

    For people who care about this issue, it's a big deal but there are a lot of people out there who don't concern themselves with it. Of course, as gas prices get higher and higher more people BECOME concerned with it...

    We bought a Prius a few years ago when gas prices were like this. Since that time we have an average of 51 mpg in that car. Our CR-V gets about 23 mpg. 23 mpg used to be considered pretty decent, but the times they are a changin'. And at $3.75/gallon, it makes a big difference.
  10. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    To put it in perspective... with my coworkers move here from Norway... know what kind of cars they buy? The biggest baddest cars they can get their hands on. Normally high end sports cars... or big SUVs.

    They don't buy them because of some oil company propaganda - they buy them because they desire them.. and in their home country it's not economically feasible to own such cars.
  11. volvo_nut

    volvo_nut Member

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    I am really interested to see where Telsa goes with its products and ultimately pricing.

    The Model S is a great looking car, seating for 7, 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and is going to offer 160, 230 and 300 mile range batteries. A 45min quick recharge and off you go.

    http://www.teslamotors.com/models

    The challenge is pricing. At $49k with a 160mile range, the 300 mile range battery adds $20k to the price.

    I would be interested to know what it costs to charge an electric-only vehicle. How does it compare to the dollar per gallon standard? If we spend $50/wk for fuel, what does an electric car cost? This page provides some information but it is Telsa's PR: http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/efficiency

    Surely, there are many hurdles to cross before we view fully electric vehicles as a realistic choice but I hope companies like Tesla are successful. The technology is exciting and it can't get affordable quick enough.
  12. jim

    jim Member

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    +1

    I have seen the same where I work. The Europeans, including the Norweigans, buy big and fast. At home, the tax on the car (especially engines with greater than 3 liter displacement) and the price of fuel keeps them in small cars with small engines.

    As for diesel in the EU, it is taxed at a lower rate than gasoline. This price signal set by the government combined with its greater mpg is what has encouraged its use. The gasoline that is not being consumed in the EU is heading over here. The diesel that is not consumed in the US is heading back on the same tankers to the EU. In the end it is a zero sum game (except for the fuel being burned to transport it). The molecules in crude oil will be consumed somewhere by someone.

    -Jim
  13. Brit

    Brit New Member

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    It's not just the tax that keeps them in small cars, there simply is not the infrastructure to support big cars or SUVs in the UK. From roads to parking spaces, it's completely impractical.
  14. hberg

    hberg give me some of your tots

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    Having grown up in Germany, the public transportation system was a lot better than what we have here. There was not much reason to own a car and taxi cabs were not that $$.
  15. wolf685cln

    wolf685cln Member

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    We'll figure out a better way - when the oil supply has completely dried up...I'm starting to think that this is unfortunately what it's going to take. Look at the math of pushing something like 3500 lbs of metal and fuel to propel a 170 lb human? That is simply a ridiculous waste of energy (speaking as a guilty party myself).

    Maybe the quest for H3 on the moon will help up achieve that holy grail of unlimited energy through fusion (as seen on disco or natgeo the other night). That or figure out how to better harness solar. Saw some off the wall stat the other day that estimated that solar energy hitting the planet daily exceeds total human energy consumption by a factor of 20,000.
  16. wolf685cln

    wolf685cln Member

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    Also I'd be interested in seeing a metric demonstrating an annual sum total of fuel consumed by the cars sitting still in rush hour or other traffic hang-ups in the US...

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