Loudoun Station & Moorefield Station

I'm not sure I understand your logic. At one point, Tysons was very similar to what Loudoun is now. At some point, Loudoun will be very different than what it is now. That's progress and how life works. There's a lot of demand to live here, so development is going to continue to occur. I don't understand how people can draw an arbitrary line in the sand and say that any future development somehow has less merit than all of the development that occurred beforehand. Remember, at one point your property likely had some trees on it that were torn out. Why was that okay, but anything from here on out is not? People need places to live and do business.

Also, I think you missed the point of my now 2-year-old post. There is more information available now (at least for Loudoun Station) as to what these developments are going to look like. I was concerned that these developments were going to end up being nearly entirely residential. However, Loudoun Station is going to have more than one million square feet of class A office space. That's exactly what we need to lure employers. It appears Moorefield Station will ultimately dwarf that amount as well.

You say, "Metro is designed primarily to move commuters out of Loudoun, hence it benefits FFX and DC." If Metro gives Loudoun residents better access to higher-paying jobs in Fairfax and DC, doesn't that benefit Loudoun as well? It's not a one-way street. At first that will be Metro's primary purpose, but the county is clearly aiming long-term for Loudoun itself to become a job center.

I'm sorry you're so horrified with what's happening in Loudoun. If you are truly putting your home up for sale, I wish you the best of luck finding someplace that makes you happier. Personally, I enjoy what Loudoun currently is and am also excited about watching it develop.

 

Do you 'Like' Tyson's? I've spent many days moving 3 feet in as many hours there, so we moved out here. I have trees on my property, believe it or not. They will remain unless nature takes them. This kind of living is not at all what we planned for and we probably won't be able to sell bc the broadlands used to be green, but is quickly going grey.

When I look at the renderings it makes my stomach turn, it is horrifying. The point is that Urban exists elsewhere, people that want that should go there. If all the big business is coming here, why do residents need to go find high paying jobs elsewhere? They also won't need metro to commute bc of the massive business growth *cough*

And what are the plans for all the vacant commercial now? Do you believe adding more will help? That's like saying if you add more lower value homes to the area, your value will increase. *cough*

Lots of big business is already here because the taxes were lower, but surprise, their taxes will go above FFX quite soon. And so will yours. I'm not worried, cuz LightningBuggs will pay my extra tax. hehehehe.

Interesting Read:
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dmb/fy2012/advertised/volume2/122.pdf

 

You seem to be talking around my points. Your neighborhood was almost certainly covered in far more trees before the houses went in. The roads that you use everyday most likely had plenty of trees on them, you and your neighbors' homes most likely had at least some trees where your structures currently sit. Why were those okay to remove, but according to you, anything else from here on out is not okay to remove? It's a bit hypocritical. You clearly have trouble accepting that change is inevitable.

Nobody likes Tysons traffic. And that is why Metro is needed there. But plenty of people like the jobs available in Tysons.

I actually think the renderings look quite nice. I'm sure there are others who agree. And again, you missed my point. In the initial years of Metro opening here, yes it will be used primarily for commuting out of the county. Long-term, the county is clearly planning for more home-grown opportunities.

You are neglecting the difference between different classes of commercial space. Some vacant storefronts are entirely different than the need for large amounts of class A space. Do you think a Fortune 500 would ever plan on taking up residence in a strip mall? And the more I hear, the more I realize that part of our vacancy problem is the absurd rental rates the owners are charging. For example, near Safeway, a small roughly 1,500 square foot storefront rents for around $10,000/month. That's the landlord's business decision. As a result, many storefronts go month-after-month generating zero rental revenue. Wouldn't it make more sense to lower that and ensure steady monthly income?

In other words, it's not all black-and-white as you make it out to be. Some commercial property happens to be in terrible locations. Many of the strip malls built during the boom probably paid a premium for the land and construction costs and are trying to compensate for that. It's not all about demand, there are plenty of supply-side issues as well.

 

Yes, most of loco was farmland. But do we need to destroy every last bit of it? Enough is enough. Growth can be well planned, but it isn't in this case. They forgot to plan to pay for it didn't they?

I agree that the landlords in the strip malls charge too much. I'm talking about the empty bldgs along 28, big buildings. Nothing is black and white, except the fact that this BoS hasn't had the time they need to vet the project.

"Nobody likes Tysons traffic. And that is why Metro is needed there. But plenty of people like the jobs available in Tysons." FACT: The formerly excluded residential props in FFX are now being entered into a new proposed tax district...(cannot trust anyone that says metro wont raise tax @ RB, MT, SW, SY)

Surprise, suckers!!

"Half of the funding ($253,000,000 in 2012 dollars) should be generated by a Tysons-wide tax district, whose boundary would be the same as the Tysons Corner Urban Center," the proposal states. "The Tysons-wide Road Improvements will be contained within this boundary and will serve to benefit the entire community within Tysons."

The proposal also says: "The Tysons Corner Urban Center would by law also include residential property owners. These residential property owners are currently exempt from the Dulles Phase I Rail District taxation*, but would be subject to this service district. As of January 1, 2012, residential property owners make up approximately 10 percent of the total assessed value of properties in Tysons."

More…http://mclean.patch.com/articles/fa...district-to-help-finance-transportation-costs

HOW MUCH TAX ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY for the metro? Unlimited? We pay 20 cents more than FFX already, to add to that is insane. I have more stats than I know what to do with.



Problem is, people can't handle the truth. It isn't just a classic movie line anymore...

 

"Enough is enough" now, but clearly it was still okay to build when your home was built. Again, I don't understand your distinction. It equates to saying it was okay for you to move here but we should keep anybody new out of Loudoun.

One can make stats say anything. The pro-metro side of the argument has just as many as you do.

Many of us can very easily handle the truth. The truth is I'm willing to pay more in taxes for a major infrastructure improvement near my home.

Clearly it's not worth continuing to go in circles with this argument. We differ on opinion and likely always will.

 

I had nothing to do with the development of this area. Never saw it but, I moved here because it was nice at the time. It won't be nice any longer. It's already falling apart at the seams. We can't accommodate the kids in schools, we can't manage the roads, Belmont Ridge will be a major highway with 18 wheelers running back and forth. Sounds marvelous.

And the pro metro stats leave out important information, like cost. oops.

Give me a number, Cav...how much more on top of your 1.235 tax rate will you be willing to pay? 10 cents, 20 cents, 50 cents? 50 cents to serve 1200 daily riders?

To put this in perspective, the Heritage Foundation estimated that the cost per new rider attracted from a car (daily rider annualized) exceeds $15,000. That is enough to lease each new Dulles rail transit rider two BMW 328i convertibles for life and still return a few thousand dollars back to the taxpayer. By this measure, the Dulles extension would be one of the most expensive new transit projects ever conceived.

 

I gotta go Cav, to support a new business that will hopefully survive in one of our mostly vacant strip malls.

Have a great night.

 

I imagine that when my house in Ashburn Village was built there were some people in Loudoun who thought the community was intruding on the rural feel of the county. Probably the same could be said of Broadlands, Brambleton, and the many other communities in our area. I think we all move here because we like it just how it is and once we're here we don't want it to change. But the people here before us might have felt the same way and to them WE were the intruders (so to speak).

Once we are here, we want services, businesses, and restaurants so development continues. We all have our individual thresholds of what enough is enough is. But that's just how things go. You can buy a place in what you think is a beautiful, undisturbed area but eventually more people will move there because they think it's great, too.

Even realizing that, naturally I still see the problems and issues that brings but I don't think it's going to change much. Bringing big business to Loudoun would be good so that people don't have to leave Loudoun to get a job. That's the kind of development that would be nice. When AOL was the big game in town out here it was a fabulous commute for homeowners here. But you can't count on one employer to sustain everything (or anything).

That's my two cents.

 

@TeamDonzi -

I think it will still be quite nice here, even with further development. So we disagree there.

Anti-Metro folks leave out important information as well, such as acknowledging any benefits of rail whatsoever.

1,200 daily riders? Other estimates put that number at 11,500. Not that's not too high, just that just because something is "data" doesn't make it legit.

You lost me at "Heritage Foundation". I don't find partisan think tanks to be reliable sources of information.

You're entitled to your opinion. You just seem to find it impossible that there's any merit to opposing views.

 

Donzi,
It's perfectly rational to not want further development in Loudoun because you feel it will negatively impact your lifestyle. There's no need to couch that opinion in "DOES NOBODY THINK OF THE TREES?!?!?" and try to Lorax the argument.
The data is ambiguous, the sources are biased, and no one can prove anything at this point. That's a sad state of affairs, but every side is attempting proof by anecdote, which just doesn't work. Comparing possible-future Loudoun to present Tysons, for example, is disingenuous as Tysons does not have Metro, which is the point of the entire effort currently underway.

 

*Isn't that like saying 'You were told your water rates wouldn't go up.. but your electric bill did... Suprise Suckers!!' ?? You're comparing apples and oranges. Your quoted article isn't about funding Metro - but funding the transformation of Tysons as a whole and other transportation projects.*

Exactly Right. Where will they get the money for all the unfunded road projects to get ppl to the metro stations? Technically that has nothing to do with metro but it will cost millions from the taxpayers. In addition to the metro tax, and the toll increases. Very few of the road improvements are profferred.

The whole idea that they singled out certain residents was ridiculous. IF they take it officially off the table, then great. But it's not a done deal, it was a straw poll. The revenue from the alternate tax district raises only 5.9 million/yr (est.) but there is no tax base there yet (it's not built). The annual maintenance is 30 million. That means they'll need to raise taxes to cover the deficit.

For Matt L. to say that there will be no tax increase is insane. Flynn, maybe you'd put a number on how much more you'd be willing to pay? How much is too much? (Consider that .09/100 = $6000 over the next 5 years before any trains arrive) FFX prop tax is 1.07/100 compared to our 1.235/100. To go higher makes LoCo less attractive, not more.

@Cav~What's your number? Let's say there are 12,000 riders in 2018, that's 3-5% of the population, but there are less than 5000 parking spaces. Cav, I'm using the county's numbers, actual ridership will likely be lower due to increased travel time [think Rosslyn tunnel] and expense.

I foresee never ending tax increases and the decrease in other county services and a big budget decrease for schools, etc. There are no caps on metro expense, no negotiating.
*Jan. 2011 cost of living index in Loudoun County: 117.8 (more than average, U.S. average is 100) Get ready for a meals tax also. What's next?

@Pea, not sure rental units are that great, maybe they make money, maybe not, but renters typically don't care for properties the way an owner would. All of the VA code came directly from an attorney who says that definition is very much a factor. And you can stop with the hysteria comments already. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them hysterical.

Did anyone see the Pentagon City area of Crystal City before metro? It was beautiful. Considering you could walk into DC if you had to, one would think these numbers would be quite a bit higher, especially because 'metro adds value.'

Pentagon City, Arlington, VA Housing Prices:
Median Sublet: $2,300
Median Room: $925
Median Foreclosure: $239,900
Median For Sale: $415,000
Median Land: $120,000
Median Rental: $2,454
Median New Home: $227,990

I think it's obvious that some of you have unlimited incomes and abundant discretionary income and that's awesome for you. Not everyone here does however, so to take from them a big chunk of money to supplement 3-5% of the county residents and out of county riders isn't right. Metro is a non-essential compared to roads and schools and other services. If you get the developers to pay for it all, super duper, financing is a moot point.. If it's so important, it should be done properly, and so far, the financing hasn't been planned very well.

 

Donzi -

The definition is absolutely not a factor, since it only applies to the CTB chapter in the VA Code. And the attorney that suggest that it does, is either trying to manipulate you or lacks the most basic understanding of how the VA Code and corresponding chapters are written. The notion that "definitions" contained within CTB code are some how applicable to all the chapters in the VA code (re: tax district, trans tax) is irresponsible.

As far as the "hysteria" comments, I am sorry if that offended you and others.

IMHO: some of your responses have literally read like "Chicken-Little's the Sky is Falling". It's not that I disagree with you per say , I disagree with the Loudoun Opt-out/Tax Pig's tactics. During the entirety of this Metro debate you and others continue to move the goal post. Thus making any attempt towards a substantive dialogue nearly impossible. There is a fine line in debating facts with passion and vigor, versus being overly dramatic.

We will have to agree to disagree on the luxury apartments.

 

TeamDonzi-
To answer your posed question: I would be willing to pay the 3 1/2 cent increase to the general revenue budget to pay for Metro.
I would also support tax districts on commercial property within one mile of Metro stops, similar to what Fairfax did. Loudoun could ask for this in the next legislative session.

 

I don't care if the metro comes or not. I just don't want to pay more than everyone else it would impact. I wouldn't be adverse to a $.035 increase to pay for it, as long as the rest of the county is paying it with me.

 

Finally!! Yay Cliff. This is what I suggested to the supes. They gave us a 'tax cut' that no one has yet realized (I think they jumped the gun). Put the tax back where it was and use the general fund. Problem is, the majority doesn't like that plan.

@Pea, it's not chicken little but it's certainly 'wake up or get the cr*p taxed out of you!'

How has the goal post moved, examples please??

Every statement is based on County provided information or transportation expert analysis. Dr. Fuller is not a transportation expert, he's a policy guy. That's why his study has been discounted and replaced by the Lesser study. CAV thinks all the data can be manipulated to look the way you want. If that is so, why do we use any of it? If none of it can be trusted, then it's all useless.

Are you saying that the supes were NOT considering a 2-mile tax district? PUH-LEASE!
Are you saying it's not the most expensive transpo project ever?
How about the fact that there isn't funding in place to pay for it? FFX planned since 2004.
How about the issues with MWAA and WMATA, do those not exist?
And about their 'exclusive control' over DTR rates? I have the page that says so.
Are you saying that the cost estimates will remain stagnant? Or will they increase each year, like everything else on the planet? I'm saying they are understating the costs.
Are you saying that all the road projects are funded? The supes don't agree.
Why won't WMATA release their studies to Sec. Connaughton? Could there be a BIG issue with the idea that more than half of the funding will come from DTR? You bet.

They fought the PLA and got it removed. There are other items they need to fight to remove, but are too chicken to do so.

I for one, think the taxpayers should have a referendum on how to pay for this. It affects us 100%, the money I can use for my kids to go to camp or go to wherever will be decreased to supplement 3-5% of the county. This is a luxury that IMHO we can't afford unless it goes the way Cliff says, then ppl wouldn't notice as much. And there is NO way that a Tax District with very few residents paying is equitable in any way, shape or form.

If I'm 'sky is falling', you're 'pie in the sky'.

 

Having Metro here might be an investment in Loudoun's future. Current residents may pay for a big chunk of it but hopefully in the long term it will have a positive impact on the county. I didn't pay for my child's school to built but I'm benefiting from it. I'm paying for other schools to be built to benefit other children, so it all evens out. I know that isn't quite the same, but I'm hoping that having Metro in Loudoun will be a good thing for the county in the future.

 

Back to my original question... I saw all these renderings too and site plot lines but now list of actual vendors. I was curious since they are close to having residents move in but no info on what stores/retail there will be. Saw plans a long time ago that had a two story bookstore and a theater but those are long gone.

 

Me too villager, it's a big investment and we don't have much if any, control over it. Lower cost, better oversight, all that goes a long way. It will most likely happen I'd like the financing to be in place and don't want Broadlands to foot the bill. Maybe it should be "cloudy with a chance of meatballs "

 

Hberg, we looked at houses at one LOUDOUN, they haven't filled but 20% of the space acc to sales agent. Millions coming to Kincora, millions SF at LS, well need lots of hope to fill it.