New Lawn Rules

I just read through the new Resolution for the Standards for Lawns and Yards.

Wow!

While I see the need for some standards to be set, the level of subjectivity within the Standards will allow the HOA to cite any homeowner for a violation at any time. I believe that this subjectivity will also allow the homeowner to win, either in a hearing, or a court of law.

Sample of subjectivity:
“Lot owners and residents are responsible for maintaining the health and good appearance of lawns on their Lots…”

Problems with this set of rule:

• Who is to set the standards? We are depending on the “sole discretion” of Covenants Committee. What if I don’t weed for one week, and a bunch of dandylions pop up? I get a warning. (At one time or another, I have had issues with about 75% of the weed grasses listed by VATECH. http://whizlab.isis.vt.edu/servlet/wid
• It is unfair to high-visibility lots.
• It does not allow for the establishment of Wildlife Habitats on your lawn, which by definition are unkempt.

The best part of these rules are the most objective, and therefore the most enforceable.

• Maximum lawn height of 6”
• Trimming trees overhanging sidewalks to 8 feet

I think that there should be some modifications to permit more than 7 days to correct the issue. Growin’ grass ain’t like your paintin’ your house!

Also, the standards should be more objective, measurable items. Photos of acceptable situations, and conditions that would create a violation would also be helpful.

One more “housekeeping” issue.

How did Donna certify the vote if she wasn’t there? :rolleyes3:

 

tell you what Mr. Rogers - it seems like you have all the answers and no matter what the HOA or members of the ARB comm do is just not up to your standards - so .... step up and v o l u n t e e r.

It seems like nothing is going to please you - b/c you have a grudge about your trash can. Blow your grudge into a bubble and blow it away - trust me there are more important things in life.

 

I thought Mr. Rogers' post in this case made some reasonable points about the subjectivity of the standards. I don't think it warranted a personal attack.

 

Listen lady, (you have raised my ire). I am involved in way too much as it is already. I have enumerated my community involvement, and service to my industry before. I currently sit on approximately 8 different committees that serve the Middle Atlantic. If you would like to see my resume, I would be happy the page with my community involvement to you.
I choose to keep my identity private on the board, because I work in the hospitality business, where the private opinions of the employees never are connected with the employee. Also, you don't have to be directly involved with the issue to comment on it. I have never told you, "Go volunteer at the hospital. Then you can comment!" Come on!

Now that I have that off my chest...

I agree with the spirit of the lawn rules, I find it difficult to put my trust in the hands of a select few who will decide if my sidewalk is edged frequently enough.

Imagine being pulled over by a cop.
Cop: "You was goin' way too fast"
Pea: "What is the speed limit"
Cop: "There ain't none, I just say that you was goin' to fast!"
Pea: "How did you determine that?"
Cop: "This here law says that I get to decide"
Pea: "I was going 25, I thought that was the speed limit"
Cop: "Well, you was wrong, because I tell you when you were goin' too fast"
Pea: "So how fast am I allowed to go here??
Cop: "Slower than you just went"
Pea: "Thanks, just give me my ticket"
Pea then gets on her cell to her attorney, who begins laughing hysterically at the unenforceable law.

Are you happy with the way the rules read???

Get it?

By the way, I saw the funniest license plate in Sterling, yesterday.
H8DA HOA.
I tried to take a picture, but my cell phone picture didn't work right.

 

Funny thing about HOA communities, one HAS A CHOICE whether to live in one or not.

 

Are you recommending that I move, because I don't agree with some of the rules?

Perhaps you should not comment any of the laws, citizens, or leaders of the US. Funny thing about countries, one HAS A CHOICE whether to live in one or not.

Sidebar: Regardless of how I feel about the Broadlands, (at heart, I'm a country boy) my DW loves this community, so I don't really have a choice.

And for the LAST TIME, I don't disagree with the new rules!!! As a resident and rules follower, I just want some guidance as to the standards.


O R

 

I plant and cut my grass and prevent crab grass. The rest is in God's (and LCSA's) hands.

 

HEY!!! If you pucker and say "new lawn rules" it sounds like "moulin rouge".

[it's friday]

 

Wow this is going to be interesting on how this plays out ha ha ha ha

HOA's are really caretakers of the developers original vision of his or her PUD and the deed restrictions that were set up by the developer originally. Although HOA's can modify these rules as deemed necessary with usually by some kind of vote from the residents of the PUD. I dare say this is going into the super grey area. I say if you want perfect lawns and landscaping then the community (HOA) then should set up a community service that maintains at least the front lawns just like they do for the common areas. This is done quite a bit throughout the country. My buddy in california lives in an single family detached home community that actually provides the exterior maintenance of their homes such as painting and even replacing damaged exterior items on their homes and a lawn service maintains all the yards. Of course the residence pay for this in their HOA dues but it solves a lot of the squabbling that can arise to what is good maintenance and lawn care.

I don't know how many times I hear HOA boards never use personal opinions but it is really hard in many instances not to. I have delt with a ton of HOA boards in my business over the years and it is at times fascinating how thaey make controversial decisions.

I even had a lady member of an board once that never would approve the design of a new home I was designing no matter how we tried to please her. Finally my client got an meeting with the city of Los Angeles which this HOA was in. Anyway this woman blurted out during this meeting that she thought these people should not have an nicer house then the others in the neighborhood. No body could believe what we were hearing. ANd the city of LA of course over ruled the HOA and had the home approved. You just never know at times what some HOA board members are really thinking at times until you hear a statement like that.

HOA's can be in some very tough positions and grey areas at times, that is when you really respect one that is run fairly and truly leaves their personal thoughts out of it and does not try to make rules that can certainly look like even the appearance that they are giving an personal opinion. Been through this too many times.

 

The guidelines as recently published actually resolve and take away a lot of the concerns that Mr. Rogers has.
As published in our documents, there was no explanation as to what was acceptable or reasonable, and could be interpreted to mean if you have 3 weeds, then you are in violation.
We chose to define it down to a little more rational and reasonable level.
If residents find the new guidelines unacceptable, they are free to petition the Board to change it or offer their own suggestions.
The HOA has had to take action on this issue with only a very few lots.

 

Cliff,
I understand that the HOA has only had to take action with very few lots. But the issue is what will happen tomorrow? Or next month or next year? Rules need to be concise and not ambiguous.

Take for example the word "unsightly". Websters defines the word as "distasteful or unpleasant to look at; unattractive; ugly". By whose determination is something distasteful or ugly? In this instance only the association board/comitee.

There is the statement under Trash & Refuse. Lots to be free from all litter, trash, debris or other objects. What other objects? Can someone be fined for having a bird house in their back yard? A planter? A gazing ball? A shovell? You can't argue that; Of course you can have all those items -- because the rule says you can't.

What about a neat and clean appearance? By what standards? What if I wanted to let my beds go natural and not trim the boxwoods? Let the leaves become mulch? Become more green? Xeriscape (spelling)? This is not a neat apperance because nature is not neat, it is chaotic and unorganzied and that is what makes it beautifull. So the homeowners asscociation wants my yard to be tailored, controlled, harnessed, and look like everyone else.

The last item is something I think i need to think about and have a change drawn up for petition and change. The rights of the homeowners association to enter my property without being found guilty of tresspass. This is a fundamental right that I do not want to give up unless ordered to by due process in a court of law. Which under the current homeowners rules we have given up. This to me is just wrong.

 

Personally, I applaud the HOA for taking any action that makes our community more beautiful. I hope the new rules are VIGOROUSLY enforced just like the rules on basketball hoops were enforced against that one dude who was threatening to sue and got written up in the Washington Post (sorry if got any of those details wrong, as I don't remember all the details off the top of my head).

 

Lets play devils advocate - By who's definition of beauty? Yours? The neighbor down the street who owns a pontiac vibe (ugliest car in the world) My wifes? You don't want her on the board - I am not the most handsome guy out there but she thinks I am.

Give me a definition of beautiful - There are properties with landscaping that I think are ugly as sin (as would most people, but it meets the current standards) Others that I think are beautiful. Think about it.

 

My point, exactly! So if I tick off the (the devil is me, not you Cliff )president of the HOA, he could breath down my neck and point at any piece of bare ground, or crabgrass, and start fining me $10 a day, and then get a contractor to come in and fix it at my expense? Certainly Cliff, you cannot be happy with that piece of "legislation".

And how did Donna certify the vote if she wasn't there?

 

This is an easy one. The Board is made up of 9 members, not one. And again, this resolution actually provides some degree of specificity where there previously was none, making your hypothetical scenario even more likely.
Donna is the Secretary and as such here signature is attached. She does not have to be present or vote on the issue.

ECTA- It would be impossible to list every possible thing or every possible circumstance.
You live in a community that has a Board of 9 members that you elect (at least 4 of us) to represent the best interests of all the homeowners. If you are concerned that these members are going to abuse their authority, I suggest everyone get involved and pay attention to who you are electing.

Given that the average resident attendance at our HOA meetings generally varies between 0 and 5, I can only assume people are relatively happy with the job we do.

Anyone with concerns about the resolution, please address then to the full Board.

 

I agree with Mr. Rogers. When I read this in the newsletter, I was surprised at the scope of the rule. I agree whole heartedly on the lawn cutting provision. It is easily and objectively determined. The parts of the rule that rely on subjective determination of whether a yard is unsightly, I find a bit hard to swallow.

For instance, to what degree do I need to water my lawn? I'm not really big on throwing cash out on the grass to have it green all year round. My lawn is kept well mowed and edged. But if it doesn't rain it gets brown until rain comes again. Will I be cited for this? Who determines this?

One may say that homeowners have control over this by who they elect to the board; however, this is a long term control measure and does not offer comfort to the individual homeowner who has been singled and may be fined or in court. We may feel comfortable with who we have on the board now, but how do the homeowners of the future have assurance that the board at the time will be as reasonable as the current board? Imagine 10-20 years from now when the community has shifted to an older demographic (yes we will all age and become more like our parents, like it or not) and a board that is made up of 60+ year old sticklers who prowl the streets looking for who is not in conformance with their vision. Is the suggestion that in future board elections we should be quizzing the candidates on how they might interpret this rule? And if after they are seated they choose to interpret the rule differently than they said during the election what recourse do we have?

I hereby petition the board to reconsider the subjective portions of this rule. The proposed revisions should be posted in this forum for general consideration and comment.

-Jim

 

I think the watering part is a concern also. I would much rather have drinking water than a green lawn. We'll probably still be on water restrictions in the spring. Grass around here has no problem going dormant when it's hot and dry, and then coming back to life with the next rain.

 

Since the HOA Board doesn't know who an anonymous poster on these Forums is, please forward your request to the Broadlands General Manager.

For those of you who don't like this, please read your copy of the Declaration For Broadlands, page 29, "Individual Upkeep" of Lots. Then explain how this resolution gives the HOA MORE enforcement power instead of less.
Thanks.

Hint: It is so broad, the HOA could hit you on just about anything it wanted to, so your witch hunt scenario is far worse without the new resolution. (in my opinion).