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Shouldn't our HOA elected officials be impartial?

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by Brewer, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    T8erman, why let the facts get in KTDid's way?! It's easier just to make accusations and make up things to suit your purpose.

    After all, this is the same person who gave this well-reasoned argument against the hospital:
    Wow, okay.
     
  2. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Moot? Because you say something it automatically is true, without any substantiation or qualification to its merit? I think the only thing that is moot is your repeated claims that you can't even defend. Who's being defensive now? You're the one making claims and can't defend them and when asked to qualify it, you ignore the question or call the defense of it moot.

    Defensive? Do you mean I have something to defend? Do you even know who the board members were who made this vote without looking it up? I doubt it, yet you can claim its self-serving to them and you probably don't even know the circumstances of it. I'm not being defensive, I'm asking you to quantify your claims you continue to make and project as fact. When you go and start making claims - asking for substance behind those claims isn't defense - its common sense.

    Maybe you should take some statistics classes to help clear things up. Especially when you start using terms like 'overwhelming' - considering more people answered they didn't have enough information then there was a difference between for/against. I never considered in any circumstance a delta of 39 votes (5% of the tally and less then 2% of the total surveys sent) 'overwhelming'.

    I personally agree with the conclusion drawn from the survey - that there is no clear majority that can be drawn conclusively from the results. There wording was:

    And with no clear mandate - the answer lies in the judgment of those elected to represent us. That's how representation works - they've been elected to make decisions on our behalf.

    Why? Probably having to do with the fact there is a major regional issue happening directly in our front yard that has direct impact in several aspects of our community including roads, property, and proffers. And in the negotiations the community is part of the process, including obtaining proffers from the hospital. I think it would be rather absurd to sit and put your head in the sand about the whole thing and pretend its not going on.

    By your logic.. sending out the survey alone is 'self-serving' because what do they have to gain from doing it??? You can't answer it, so you automatically assume its self-serving. That's ridiculous.

    You must separate your reaction to the process vs the result. You claim the action is invalid.. because you didn't agree with the conclusion. Make up your mind.. what do you have a problem with? The HOA saying something on the topic, the conclusion of the survey, or the statement made after? They are all separate blocks.

    blue_devil believes they shouldn't have been involved at all.. and in that case he should be pissed HOA time and money was even spent asking the question. Personally, I lump that into the 'head in the sand' behavior. I think it would be childish for the organization to just ignore the whole thing when its happening right in our front yard - especially when doing so may put the community at a disadvantage of getting OUR concerns answered or addressed, or even benefiting from the situation.

    on the survey results - I agree, they only show that the community as a whole is mixed.

    on the statement, I agree that even in the face of inconclusive data to claim for/against that a decision must still be made. That decision was made by the people elected to represent us and make judgments based on the interest of the community at large. That's what elected representatives do. And yes, sometimes those results do not align with every resident's belief - that's a fact of life when you are part of a GROUP, not a independent.

    That's the process - and I find it all to be sound. If you don't like the final conclusion - then have your beef with those who made those conclusions - not with the process. And if you have a beef - you better have a better platform then just throwing around accusations without any merit. I think the HOA did a respectable job outlining their reasoning for the conclusion they drew. You however continue to make conclusions without any qualifications.. so honestly.. who's position carries more weight? The one who can defend it, or the one who just keeps repeating the same statements over and over without anything behind it?
     
  3. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    As I said in a previous post to Lee, I would actually rather hear "just because" versus made up, unprovable, fear-mongering reasons.
     
  4. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    I'll weigh in one more time on this topic and try to sum things up.
    A person questioned whether I, an HOA Board member, should write letters to the editor.
    I have stated that I will continue to exercise my free speech rights whenever I feel necessary, whether anyone else likes it or not.

    A few people then drag out something that occurred four years ago that the HOA Board went on the record about. This has been discussed. As it stands, the anonymous posts of people who may or may not be Broadlands residents are meaningless to me. If residents don't like what the HOA does, then express your opinion to the HOA Board. We have a Board meeting on Tuesday at 5:30pm at the Nature Center if anyone is interested.

    As it stands the HOA Board will continue to evaluate events that effect, or could effect, our community and, when the Board so chooses, will issue an opinion on it.

    If you don't like that, you can:
    1) Come to the Board and express your opinion.
    2) Run for the Board to have a vote in any such matter.
    3) Support other candidates that support your position.
     
  5. blue_devil

    blue_devil New Member

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    I've never said the HOA Board should not have been involved, I said it shouldn't be taking sides. There was an opportunity to act impartially, facilitate, to bring forward the concerns of those who opposed the hospital, people who the HOA represents.

    Instead it took sides on the very first HCA proposal. Donna was voted in the very next election on an anti-hospital platform. We now have a board with two officers who adamantly oppose each other's position. Is there anything constructive our Board can do at this point ?
     
  6. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    So your solution would be to make sure we have a Board that is unanimous behind one position? And whose position would that be? What's wrong with having opposing views represented on the Board?

    Isn't that how a representative democracy works--contrary to what many many think, the Founders purposefully set up our system so that it would be DIFFICULT for the government to actually take action. Gridlock can be good :)

    I'd like to know how many of those complaining have actually taken the time to meet with said Board Members in person or speak with them on the phone, and how many have consistently or ever attended HOA meetings. Get involved if you don't like what's happening.
     
  7. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Are you aware of all the fact finding and open dialog that was facilitated by the board for residents with BMRC? They did do all that stuff. There are minutes to task force meetings even in the newsletter archive if you care to review.

    Well last I checked there are FOUR resident members of the BHOA, not two. You do the math
     
  8. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Oh thats right.. you think the HOA should not be involved unless there is 'strong agreement', unless it meets other criteria you decide and then its free to operate as it's intended. I think that would generally be referred to as 'have your cake and eat it too'.

    Personally I wish the HOA was more involved in acting as a collective voice of 3,000 individuals in Loudoun County in topics that directly affect our community. But for that to actually mean something, the residents would have to back that up with action and voices to show that the HOA is representative of those voices.

    But in reality when it takes.. what.. maybe 60-100 votes to get someone elected... less then two dozen people show repeat commitment to the organization.. then the HOA's voice is pretty weak outside the grounds it directly controls. Now if the HOA were to announce at the monthly meetings that they've been working with Van Meter to make something happen, and they weren't doing it, and a call to action resulted in 500+ phone calls to Van Meter.. I bet their statements or fights would mean a lot more before relying on the residents to make those calls. Instead people choose to be passive, and then complain that their HOA isn't able to do something for them. You reap what you sow.
     
  9. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Not quite true. Donna ran against me on a strong anti-hospital campaign in 2003. I got three times as many votes as she did.

    The next time she ran, there were three people running for 2 seats. 2 of the 3 made it to the Annual Meeting, and those two were the ones that were elected, including Donna. She beat the absent person by less than 10 votes.

    The next year, 3 people were running for 1 seat. The person that stated they supported BRMC won, the person who didn't have an opinion came in second, and the person who was against it came in third.

    As Lee would say.. "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....":scaredeyes:
    Please note I am not implying that the only reasons the people won or lost was solely based on the hospital issue. I just find it interesting!
     
  10. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    Hey you know I still luv you pal :) someday we will be on the same side of an issue again and just think how powerful that will be :happygrin:
     
  11. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    Lee, the source of the friction is NOT because you differ on the hospital issue. It has nothing to do with that at all--as I think everyone recognizes there are legitimate reasons to be for and against BMRC.

    The problem is that you continually and recklessly impugn people's character based on rumors, innuendo and conspiracy theories; you present as facts what are really your opinions or conjecture; you willfully ignore facts and documented data in favor of what you "feel" or "think" is going to happen; you make baseless claims and when invited to do the hard work/research necessary to be informed, you shrug it off. And I haven't even mentioned rehashing irrelevant information and scare tactics ad infinitum.

    Just be clear: no one has a problem with you being against the hospital. It's your repeated characterizations, primarily of Cliff, that are off-putting.
     
  12. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    Come on Silence and Cliff's characterizations of me don't count like Cliff says just draw pretty pictures he says can vouch for. Well he has seen a very few of my projects in real life. But you know what the big set of plans he walks around with about the hospital. Guess what my plans are also full of not just pretty pictures but serious details and engineering just like the hospital plans on a slightly smaller scale. My plans just like the hospital ones must go through plan review and zoning. So when I hear i don't have a clue about planning or the process how many of you have taken an idea from a client and got it approved just like the hospital to a finished product. I don't just draw pretty pictures but the pretty pictures are what people pay the big bucks for then their is all the rest the tons of details and engineering that the client really does not care about they just want to see pretty picture and move in all the rest of the details and construction is just the hell we go thru that nobody really appreciates they client wants and only understands most of the time the pretty picture then moving in. There is all the stuff in between that is not the fun part for most. It seems most of you don't really understand the entire process from idea to moving in!!!!!
     
  13. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    Huh? How do you get from my post to this?! That is why people don't take you seriously. You equate Cliff telling you to draw your pretty pictures with your allegations of corruption and conspiracy theories? Get a clue!

    Yes, we have already established about 400 times that:
    (1) You get paid big bucks for your pictures (of course, it's okay for you to make money from "rich" people, but not okay for the hospital to make a profit)
    (2) No one really appreciates how amazing you really are.
    (3) None of us are smart enough to really understand how this process works so we need to leave it to experts like you.
    (4) If we would just take your word for it, you could make everything all better. All hail the architect man!
     
  14. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    It is not worth it anymore because you want to treat me as the enemy so no matter how I say things you will always want to twist it to your point of view. Well thanks :happygrin:
     
  15. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    And silence perhaps you should show up at the HH and be a little less silent except around. At least I have met many of the people here and actually we really do get along :happygrin:

    I really do respect all the people I have actually met here and we all have our opinions whether we agree or not I still respect their opinions especially when they say it to me to my face not just here.:happygrin: So I challenge you to show up this friday Slience not just hide here behind a keyboard. :happygrin: how about those apples my good buddy :devil2:
     
  16. Silence Dogood99

    Silence Dogood99 New Member

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    Maybe I will bring you the world's tiniest violin, Lee ;)
     
  17. Baywatch68

    Baywatch68 New Member

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    I wish I could attend the HH.
     
  18. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    This entire response (especially, the "have your cake" part) is just the latest in a series of posts by the HOA that appear to show utter contempt for the opinions of residents. I would hope that the representatives could hold a discussion of their decisions without resorting to snide remarks. I am genuinely thankful for all of the hard work that you, vacliff, and T8erman do; however, this type of hostile reaction seems to be building toward a dangerous trend.

    If the community is divided, why should the HOA stake out a public policy position that, according to the HOA's own survey, is not supported (or opposed) by anywhere close to a majority? In such a situation, the reasonable course of action would have been to neither endorse nor oppose. Anything else would have been, as it was in this case, inappropriate because it represents the entire community.

    Again, I must say that on the issue of the hospital, I am neutral. I am fine if it is built here or elsewhere. Either way, the Broadlands will have a hospital within a few miles.
     
  19. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Do you honestly believe that if there is any descent you should just do nothing? Then what gets accomplished? Elected officials must sometimes go against some of the opinions of the residents - that's a given. Why? Because many times individuals fail to put the group above themselves.

    Should the HOA just sit back and do nothing when the community can't decide what's the best way to fund a required capital expense? No, they must make a decision and continue moving forward. Some people aren't going to like the result - you will never get 100% agreement between 3,000+ people. And sometimes you will have to make actions that are even against the the majority's opinion - because a decision may not be popular, but necessary.
     
  20. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    flynnibus-
    Don't let him draw you in.......
     

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