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Trees vs. Design Center

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by Save The Trees, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. Southern Walk Hokie

    Southern Walk Hokie New Member

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    Okay, but I don't that you and Cliff see the contradiction in your own statements. You have pointed out that Van Metre controls the HOA—5 out of the 9 members represent Van Metre—the “Developer.” So, in a very real sense, any matter that involves the concerns of homeowners in Broadlands and Van Metre are de facto “HOA issues.”

    I don't want to deflect attention away from the main issue—Trees vs. DesignCenter (or possibly some combination thereof). However, I would like to remind those who care about their homes, their investment, and in the spirit of democracy, to recall an instance in time when another powerful entity (not unlike Van Metre, in some respects) prevented a group of people from true self-government. That experience culminated in an historic document that begins with the words … “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another . . . .” Now, I am not suggesting such action here, only raising, for your consideration, what can happen when a people come to feel that those in power no longer represent their interests.
     
  2. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    No, those are 2 different entities/things. There is a company called VM who is the developer. There is a Broadlands HOA. Although the Broadlands HOA is controlled by VM, it's realm of responsibility is limited to very specific things. The Broadlands HOA is not VM, even if VM controls it.

    You can come to an HOA meeting with issues that you have with VM and voice them, but when it comes time to solve the issue, discuss it in depth, etc, you will then be directed to contact VM directly. The HOA does not get involved in VM-specific business.

    I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you need to realize that there is a very defined line between the HOA and VM. They are 2 different entities. Just like you would not call VM if you had an issue with your garbage pickup, you would not contact the HOA if VM reneged on a contract with you.
     
  3. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    WOW! Speaking of "histrionics"!

    As for the HOA, I think what Cliff and Mr. Linux are trying TO HELP YOU WITH, is that you can use the HOA meeting as a conduit to DIRECTLY speak with VM employees.

    As for action, since it is THE BROADLANDS HOA meeting and THE BROADLANDS HOA has absolutely NO say in the property, they could possibly tell you to go away (simplistics terms).
     
  4. Southern Walk Hokie

    Southern Walk Hokie New Member

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    I agree that we've gone far afield. Therefore, I'm reposting my message from earlier so that others may have a chance to see it:

    I was able to speak with Brian Boone from the Loudoun County Department of Building and Development. Here is summary of what I was told:
    • Section 208 consists of two parcels of land – an eastern parcel and a western parcel.
    • The eastern parcel is an area that was cleared of tall trees years ago and is directly across from Broadlands Marketplace.
    • The western parcel, where Van Metre is planning to squeeze in a design center and parking spaces, is an undeveloped area that still has many tall trees and a creek running through it. It is not directly across the street from Broadlands Marketplace, but rather across from another wooded area closer to the pool. Currently, this area serves as an excellent buffer from the sights and sounds from Wynridge Drive and Broadlands Marketplace.
    • The purpose of the boundary line adjustment, according to the County, was to move the boundary line between the eastern and western parcels—although Mr. Boone couldn’t explain for certain whether the boundary line was moving the line toward the east (decreasing the size of the eastern parcel and increasing the size of the western parcel) or toward the west (increasing the size of the eastern portion and decreasing the size of the western parcel).
    • The application for the boundary line adjustment was approved by the County on March 18, 2008.
    Also, Mr. Boone provided the following additional information:
    • A floodplain easement exists on the western parcel.
    • Van Metre is required to submit a site plan for the Section 208 parcels.
    • A site plan (STPL-2007-0042) for an “office park” has been submitted and approved for the eastern parcel.
    • Van Metre submitted a site plan for the western parcel (STPL-2007-0020) for a “home design center,” but withdrew the site plan on March 20, 2008. The County did not have information as to why the plan was withdrawn by Van Metre.
    The upshot of this information is that the boundary line adjustment may result in a smaller parcel of land for the proposed design center, which could increase the environmental impact the center has on the area. Moreover, a reduction in the size of the western parcel could mean that instead of Van Metre providing a larger buffer between the center and homeowners (say 100-200 feet), it is only providing the minimum required by law.

    As for the withdrawn site plan for the western parcel, I think that this provides an opportunity for homeowners and Van Metre to discuss the development (or non-development of this area). Yes, the proposed use appears consistent with the zoning regulations, but these same regulations still requires an approved site plan.

    While Van Metre may be well within their rights to cut down the trees and squeeze in a design center on a smaller piece of land, nothing prohibits the homeowners from asking Van Metre not to. Why can’t we express our concerns about losing part of our tree save area and wildlife buffer? Why can’t we suggest alternatives?

    Remember, just because they can do something, doesn’t mean they should. And the opinions of homeowners who will be affected (many of whom paid lot premiums and put their trust in Van Metre) are absolutely valid reasons for not taking an action regardless of your right to do so.

    I look forward to the opportunity to have a dialogue with Van Metre about their future plans. My hope, perhaps naively, is that we might work together to find a solution that will satisfy the interests of all the stakeholders. Apparently what we need first, though, is a paradigm shift.
     
  5. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    Who is prohibiting you and other homeowners from asking VM not to? Cliff and I have been offering that you and other residents can come voice your concerns directly at the HOA meeting, since VM will be there.

    Please enlighten me as to how the HOA is keeping you from voicing your concerns?
     
  6. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Lee-
    Your link didn't take me to a map, and once again you are relying on something you see on some internet page, rather than reality.
    Drive out to the site and bring a compass. You're once again 100% wrong.
    Or how about another $1000 bet you will run away from?
     
  7. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Southern Walk Hokie-
    I think Eric has explained it. The HOA Board meetings are there to conduct HOA business. This parcel of land IS NOT part of the HOA.
    Let's take your argument and assume that it is: Van Metre controls the HOA Board and can control what topics the Board will address. Do you think they wold voluntarily take up this issue as an HOA Board when it would be opposing their own best interests?
    Not going to happen.

    I have met with you and others about this. I have offered advice and assistance. I have contacted Van Metre to ask them to respond, and have offered residents to come to our Board meeting to speak about it.

    I would hope you would have considered these things, please learn a little more about your own HOA's authority before accusing me of "abusing my discretion."
     
  8. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    There is a map just blow it up.

    Betting is illegal in the state of Virginia or we would of had a race track where MCI or Verizon is :happygrin:
     
  9. Show_hunters

    Show_hunters New Member

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    I say, let them build because we need growth in our area and our local shops need these buildings. If they are going to build then, why not ask them to plant more tree through out the area





    . :fightsw:
     
  10. Southern Walk Hokie

    Southern Walk Hokie New Member

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    Cliff,

    Looking back over what I posted previously I can see how it could be interpreted as accusing you of abusing your discretion. I apologize; that was not my intent. Moreover, I appreciate the advice and assistance you have provided. To better facilitate or discussion, I will dispense with the rhetoric and direct us to some specifics.

    My point was simply that pursuant to the HOA Bylaws, new business may be raised at HOA meetings. In particular, Article 2 (Meeting of Members), Section 2.6 (Order of Business) provides as follows:

    Unless otherwise specified in the notice of the meeting, the order of business shall be as follows: (1) roll call (proof of quorum); (2) proof of notice of meeting; (3) reading of minutes of preceding meeting; (4) reports of officers; (5) report of Board of Directors; (6) reports of committees; (7) appointment of inspectors of election (when so required); (8) election of directors; (9) unfinished business; and (10) new business; provided however, that balloting for election of directors may commence at any time at the direction of the presiding officer.

    Thus, according to the Bylaws, new business is the last item addressed at the HOA meeting. This is consistent with Robert’s Rules of Order, which, pursuant to Article 2, Section 2.7 (Conduct of Meetings) “shall govern the conduct of all meetings of the Association when not in conflict with the Act or the Association Documents.” Yet, neither the Bylaws nor Robert’s Rules, nor even the Articles of Incorporation, define what is or is not “new business.”

    I believe that under proper parliamentary procedure, an HOA member could, if recognized by the presiding officer during the new business, make a motion. According to Robert’s Rules, “a motion is a proposal that the assembly take certain action, or that it express itself as holding certain views.” This motion could then be dealt with accordingly. For example, if the motion is out of order, you can rule it out of order; if it is in order but fails to get a second, it dies. You could even refuse to yeild the floor.

    The crux of my point was that stating ahead of time that an item is not an “HOA issue” seems premature because you haven't heard what the motion will be (if there is one at all). This may discourage members from understanding that they have a right, as HOA members, to propose that the HOA do something, regardless of whatever the HOA actually can or will do it.

    SWH
     
  11. Brassy

    Brassy Hiyah

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    Taking up older large and tall trees and planting newer ones that will take years and years to grow in siaze equal to what is there now...not a great option.
     
  12. Lee

    Lee Permanent Vacation

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    I still don't understand why they must build on that site when they have tons of office land with no trees and away from the residential. Seems very odd.
     
  13. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    SWH-
    Your description of the meetings is correct.
    Generally, "new business" is items that are under the roles and responsibilities of the HOA.
    This is why I encourage residents to come and speak about an issue. If there is enough interest on the Board, they could choose to follow up on the issue and add it to the agenda for subsequent meetings.
     
  14. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    That's an interesting point. If a building is built there, will the employees spend their lunch money at local Broadlands restaurants? They certainly could use the business. Of course, this is pretty much irrelevant to the boundary change issue. I'm just saying it would be nice to have some lunch business at the local venues in that area.
     
  15. blue_devil

    blue_devil New Member

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    I'm confused. Didn't you argue the opposite with respect to the Shouldn't Our HOA Officials Remain Impartial thread. You felt one resident request was enough to get the HOA involved; and, can't some of our board members unilaterally act on the residents behalf here? What's the litmus test for the picking and choosing of when the HOA gets involved?
     
  16. blue_devil

    blue_devil New Member

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    There are better ways to promote growth than at the expense of our neighbors and the environment.
     
  17. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm...do recall there was a vote in favor of the BRMC.:rolleyes3:
     
  18. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    I don't know what you're talking about. If you are referring to the HOA's endorsement of BRMC four years ago, that came after many, many months of meetings, discussions, surveys, etc. and was supported by all members of the HOA.

    If you're referring to my continued PERSONAL endorsement of BRMC, that is completely irrelevant to this topic.

    Is it possible that the HOA will get involved in this issue? As an entity, I doubt it. Remember, Van Metre has 5 of 9 seats on the HOA Board. I doubt they will vote to have the HOA they control pursue something that is not in Van Metre's best interests.
    Is it possible some resident member will get involved? Yes. I already have, as outlined previously. The others can speak for themselves. I would point out there are three other resident members on the HOA Board. I wonder if anyone concerned about this issue has contacted any of them?
     
  19. blue_devil

    blue_devil New Member

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    BRMC was one (and you meant to type 'all members of the HOA Board'). But you listed many other issues beyond the land that the HOA has control over as I'm including below:

    I agree it's not relevant and it wasn't what I was trying to get at.

    I felt the initial responses to SWH seemed to imply that there would be no involvement from the HOA or HOA Members because the land is outside the control of the HOA and because it is not in Van Metre's interest.

    I think your involvement so far, Cliff, is appropriate in helping to facilitate the resident concerns. However, in the previous 'Impartial' thread you stated that you (and the other resident Board members) could also choose to take a side even without resident input and that you even had an obligation to do so.
     
  20. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Now I understand your question.
    Correct, issues that have an impact to the community as a whole, such as sheriff's office, school boundaries, etc. are things that the HOA might choose to endorse or issue an opinion on.
    In the case of an issue, such as the design center, where the HOA is controlled by the same entity that wants to build it, an HOA endorsed action to oppose it simply is not going to happen.
     

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