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Do you feel lucky?

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by iamironman, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. iamironman

    iamironman hoa member

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    I'm not against gun-toters but seeing a gentleman in plain clothes with a side arm near Bloom/Jiffylube kinda reminds you of Dirty Harry.
     
  2. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    I bet I know who it was too.
     
  3. teak

    teak New Member

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    Unless he was open carrying a 356 magnum boom-stick, I don't get a picture of dirty harry in my head. You always see black.
     
  4. fidothedog

    fidothedog Member

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    I am also not against people carrying guns but I did see something last Saturday which shocked me.

    I was going down Sycolin toward Leesburg and going up a hill. There was a van with the hazard lights on going slow. As I passed the van, there were 40 men wearing hats and blue shirts saying Honesty, Respect and something else. They were all carrying M-16s in their hands.

    I couldn't figure out what they were doing walking down Sycolin. If they were demonstrating, it seems like an out of the way road for that.
     
  5. mdcrim

    mdcrim Member

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    The National Guard has a unit based off Sycolin Road. Maybe it was their weekend to drill?
     
  6. BellaRu

    BellaRu Member

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    That would be a 6" .44 magnum boom stick. Much bigger BOOM.

    I have a 4" .357 mag - and while it will put a good size hole in ya - the .44 will just take your limb off. :D
     
  7. iamironman

    iamironman hoa member

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    I think it was a standard issue Glock
     
  8. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    Oh, a 'splodygun.
     
  9. BigDog

    BigDog Member

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    You do know that Virginia is an Open-Carry state? http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

    Personally, I think more people should open carry.
     
  10. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    You're right! I think we should go more Old West style with guns! Although it isn't surprising this is being espoused from a guy who wears Big Dogs t-shirts =) (not that there's anything wrong with that)

    Anyways, IMO it's way too easy to get a drivers license, much less a gun permit... can you imagine if it got more popular and lots of idiots that qualified for a firearm license and didn't necessarily know how to handle a weapon started open-carrying all day? You would have way more deaths from idiots doing stupid things than defending yourself from criminals.

    Just my 0.02

    P.S. I like shooting guns for accuracy, having one for home defense, etc. I just don't feel the need to carry one throughout the day.
     
  11. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    Boomer - Remeber that in order to get a concealed permit you do have to show proof of training in VA, even a Utah permit requires proof. Now, you can do it the cheap way and get one on-line, or invest the time and go up to SEG and attend the classes. If you are going to carry at all in B'Lands/Ashburn you almost have to have the CHP because of all the school properties in the area.
     
  12. Iris

    Iris New Member

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    The Gun is Civilization
    by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)
    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.
    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.
    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
    People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
    The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)
    So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.
     
  13. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    Does one really feel safer knowing people can be allowed to openly carry guns in public, loaded or not? Guns are lethal weapons, not glorified toys and they offer no value other than to kill something living, target practice, self defense or (exercising one's rights :rolleyes3:). And just because someone carries doesn't mean they know how to handle a gun. States with high gun ownership also have higher gun related accidents and fatalities.

    "When the issue is life and death, feelings should never trump facts—even when there’s an armed mob arguing otherwise."
    Josh Sugarmann
    Executive Director of the Violence Policy Center
     
  14. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Isn't that like saying 'states with more cars also have a higher car related accidents and fatalities' or 'more accidents happen at home...'

    1% of 10,000 is higher then 1% of 1,000... but it's still 1%

    I don't agree with the article posted above... guns aren't equilizers... they are just another method of force.

    So you have a pistol.. what happens when the 'other guy' has a shotgun... or an automatic rifle? Weapons make someone 'stronger' - they never equalize because there never is a 'maximum'.

    There is merit to the 'only the criminals will have guns' argument and therefore making people more vunerable.. but with empowerment comes responsibility and greater risk. There will be more gun related accidents when there are more guns out there. It's just math. But is that trade off acceptable? That's the real question...

    If we educated people to handle guns early... there wouldn't be the fascination with them and there would be less accidents from 'playing' with them. But we can't figure out how to educate people to drive either.. so I don't have high hopes for such a government program to educate 'everyone' early on gun use and safety.
     
  15. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    Should have said...States with higher gun ownership and "weak laws" have higher gun accidents and fatalities.

    Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety Statistics:

    The number of firearms injuries remains high in the United States, compared with most of the rest of the world. Firearm suicide rates are strongly impacted by the rate of gun ownership. (Kaplan and Geling, 1998) There is a positive correlation between homicide rates and availability of guns in developed nations. (Hemenway and Miller, 2000) The number of firearms in the hands of private citizens continues to grow each year at a rate far exceeding that of the population as a whole. It might even be said that Americans live in a "gun culture" based upon traditions and behaviors well-entrenched in our society. This is reflected in our constitution, whose second amendment guarantees that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Though the application of this amendment applied to maintenance of a militia, and not private gun ownership, the second amendment has been consistently interpreted to protect private ownership of many types of guns.

    http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html
     
  16. Kaosdad

    Kaosdad Will work for Rum

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    Dead on, but we cannot rely on the government to do it. There are so many private organizations that do it better & cheaper than the govt ever could; The Boy Scouts, Isaac Walton, Civilian Marksmanship Program, Appleseeds, 4H - the list goes on.

    KTDid - thank for that link. That study is presented well and is (suprisingly) well balanced. However, there is one thing they say that really needs to be looked into more deeply. They state; "The number of firearms in the hands of private citizens continues to grow each year at a rate far exceeding that of the population as a whole." This makes it sound like everyone and their grandmother (living & dead) are out purchasing firearms. Obviously, not true. What they are ignoring are the collectors and competition shooters who will own multiple firearms. It would also be interesting to see if they include inert firearms there.

    Also - if you really read deeply in to that presentation, it speaks more to firearms education. "Accedental" firearms deaths are, more than likely, due lack of training & education. It's the uneducated parent that leaves a loaded firearm out for investigation. It's the uneducated child that plays with that firearm. Remember - the firearm itself is not evil. No more so than the kitchen knife in the drawer, the softball bat in the closet or the car in the garage.

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
    Thomas Jefferson

    BTW - KTDid - if you'd ever like to, I would be thrilled to take you up to the range and poke some holes in paper plates.
     
  17. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    Ha! I was on the rifle team in HS. Their primary goal was to teach safety and marksmanship. What was I thinking?! :scaredeyes:
     
  18. BigDog

    BigDog Member

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    Interesting Read...

    Gun Control: Myths and Realities (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4706)
    by David Lampo - David Lampo is the publications director at the Cato Institute.

    The number of well-publicized public shootings during the past few years, especially the tragedy at Columbine High School, has re-energized the gun control movement. As a show of strength, a coalition of gun control groups has organized a "Million Mom March" to be held in Washington, D.C. on Mother's Day, an event designed to stir up emotions rather than promote rational thought. And when one looks at the facts about gun control, it's easy to see why the anti-gun lobby relies on emotion rather than logic to make its case.

    Think you know the facts about gun control? If your only source of information is the mainstream media, what you think you know may not be correct. Take the quiz below and test your knowledge.

    1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

    False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.

    2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the hands of criminals.

    False. Contrary to President Clinton's claims, there is no "gun show loophole." All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.

    3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the deficiencies of current gun control laws.

    False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 handgun used by them was already illegal.

    4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don't.

    True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

    5. Waiting periods lower crime rates.

    False. Numerous studies have been conducted on the effects of waiting periods, both before and after the federal Brady bill was passed in 1993. Those studies consistently show that there is no correlation between waiting periods and murder or robbery rates. Florida State University professor Gary Kleck analyzed data from every U.S. city with a population over 100,000 and found that waiting periods had no statistically significant effect. Even University of Maryland anti-gun researcher David McDowell found that "waiting periods have no influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides."

    6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.

    False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.

    The basic premise of the gun control movement, that easy access to guns causes higher crime, is contradicted by the facts, by history and by reason. Let's hope more people are catching on.
     
  19. Djwlbrn

    Djwlbrn New Member

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    I couldn't have said it any better myself. Those in our society who think that firearms are the "cause" of our societal ills in terms of gun violence should always remember that a choice was made, good or bad each time the trigger was pulled. Blaming the weapon is like blaming the cars for crashing into eachother...and that's just silly.
     
  20. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    That has to be coupled with responsibility, and the US culture as a whole obviously is not as responsible as other civilized countries and that's why our gun crime rate is so high... that's a fact too. It's the culture that has to change -- Is that what you're referring to?

    Easier access to guns (by the higher percentage of irresponsible people) in the US *will* increase crime rates. You can obviously see that compared to other countries, we have a MUCH higher percentage of gun crimes.

    Djwlbrn/Iris, to make a better society everyone should be armed? You're nuts. I understand the point that the Marine fella is trying to make, but he's coming from a military background and the general public isn't trained the same way ... there are a LOT of idiots out there, unfortunately. I don't mind guns, in the hands of responsible people, but you are advocating everyone, even the irresponsible ones, carry them, thus making everyone armor up just to protect against them.... that's a f-ed up way of looking at things, and it would snowball.

    It's kinda like riding a motorcycle -- I would LOVE to, but I'm afraid of the other irresponsible idiots on the road with the bigger cars (guns)... =)

    It all boils down to idiots, you see, and it's hard to limit them unfortunately =)

     

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