Car Egging Necessary?!?!?

You have zero proof of any of the above. Cameras do catch crime, and I do have actual proof.

http://www.times-herald.com/Local/Home-surveillance-camera-catches-burglars-in-the-act-1311751

Tell that homeowner his camera made zero difference:
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/vandal-caught-on-camera-slashing-tires

Has he caught the guy who did it yet? Who knows, but he got them on video.

Or this lady.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/23075928/detail.html

Or this store owner.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/03/staten_island_stores_surveilla.html

Want me to link a hundred more? Do a yahoo search and read them yourself.

A security camera has a chance of catching a vandal in the act. That's a fact. You can argue whatever comes after that until the cows come home. If they get past your illlegal electric fence, that is.

 

umm- Steve- since when has YOUR "O" ever been "H"?

seriously though, you both have points. ALL crime is not deterred by a camera- if someone is out to get YOU then they will, but random acts of vandalism and stupidity- if they think at ALL they might think twice about doing a house with a camera, or they might not. a camera would have DEFINITELY helped with our vandalism because they had to come right up to our garage to do what they did.

you guys talk in black and white so often... but there are shades of gray and infa-rad in THIS argument.

 

Sounds to me like a flock of teenagers hatching plans of Halloween mischief. Perhaps they were egged on by their peers or perhaps try were trying to impress chicks. Either way, I understand the OP clearly, but don't quite get why you're all henpecking them. I'm not saying you all have to walk on eggshells, but you all could be a little nicer and cooperative.

 

Like I said before, still having crime is irrelevant. You don't seem to get that.

The entire point is to install security cameras to help catch whoever did it. That's it, and the facts show that to work. No one here is arguing that it stops crime.

 

That Insight camera looks impressive but appears to be some serious money...

We started out with Lorex, if anyone does that make sure you get a system that can record D1 resolution on all channels (slightly more than 4x 320x240). The "Edge" model we started with does not, and the recorded picture is notably worse than the camera fed in to the TV. Their "Link" model does, so does the system mentioned earlier in the thread. If you can't get a good pic off the DVR it won't do much good. The motion detection feature was useless on ours, too many false triggers. We learned that IR cameras cannot be set in a window, the IR just reflects off the glass. And the IR range is limited, figure half what it is rated for in a dark scene. From what I've read the pros use true day-night camera enhanced with external illuminators if needed (more on true day-night in a minute).

A few months ago I read about Vitamin D on the forums, being an engineer I set off in search of a better solution than our Lorex.

At the moment, we have an Axis P3344 which is a very good HD network camera (1280x800).
-Over 3x the resolution of a typical camera
-Simple to hook up just run Cat5 to a POE ethernet switch
-Sees at night with no IR LED's, 0.05 lux rating so the external house lighting is enough
-It can also record to an internal SD card
-Has a pixel counter for setup so you get enough pixels for identification
-3.3-12mm varifocal lens with remote zoom and focus greatly simplifies setup
-Auto iris so can cope with some amount of sun etc.
-It is a true day-night camera, which means that it switches out the IR filter at night and goes to black and white and can be enhanced with external IR illuminators if needed. For example in the backyard where there is not that much light (although motion activated floods do a fine job). Since it does not contain IR illuminators it can be set in the window.
-These cameras can also be accessed remotely although I haven't gotten around to that yet.

The also make this in a box style (e.g P1344), and up to 5MP. The nice thing about box cameras is that you can change the lens. However The 5MP versions are not cheap...

Have also played around with CNB VCM-24VF, which has a 0.005 lux rating ($150 new) and a used axis 243 converter ($200), once again running into Vitamin D. This camera makes it look like daylight out in the middle of night. Also varifocal 2.8-10.5mm, auto-iris and true day night. The cool thing about the Axis 243 is it also comes with 4 inputs that can be controlled via the internet, and 4 outputs to interface with home automation etc.

The CNB was significantly better than the stock Lorex, the Axis however is really nice. Panasonic BL-C120 and Linksys camera (can't remember the model) had poor night vision and mediocre picture quality and went back to the store.

We use Vitamin D on a computer to record. It distinguishes objects vs. people and can take actions based on that. We've never had a problem (knock on wood) but the cool thing is our system sends us an email when UPS delivers a package to the front step.

Or you can have it send your cell phone a picture (it draws a box around what triggered it). If you want to play with it there is a free demo limited to 320x240, you can use your laptop webcam for the camera. It does a pretty good job of identifying things, although for some reason it seems to think the neighborhood cat is a person.

Note that with Vitamin D once you get a few cameras running it will use a fair bit of the processor, especially with megapixel cameras. I can run the P3344 and one other at 640x480 on a 1.6MHz dual core mac mini and still have some processor left over. If I use chicken of the VNC to display the mini screen on my laptop it pretty much runs the processor to zero but works. As an aside, realVNC can be used to access a windows machine via a mac. I'm not a computer guy but these are all pretty cool programs.

I've found CCTVforum.com also has some good reading and examples as does youtube, and the people at Midwest Surveillance were very helpful. The other thing is that Costco has a good return policy on the Lorex systems.

Our system will probably evolve a bit more but hopefully these notes will help someone.

In a few years the network cameras will come down significantly in price, they are already superior and less expensive to where they were a few years ago.

Mike

 

Mike - that is one impressive home surveillance system, I now have home surveillance envy.

The Lorex Night Vision was/is expensive; the pic quality is okay - 480 HTL & 393 pixels. When we installed I had our contractor integrate "moon lights" to the cameras so even at night we get color pictures .

We have our cameras linked to a DVR as well, but I agree with you on the motion detection feature, it was an epic failure as 2 of our cameras are adjacent to Ridgeway, so lots of foot traffic. Although the motion detection in the basement & front door have worked well for us.

Based on your post I am definitely going to look into the Axis & Vitamin D, our system is a few years old and needs to be update. Thanks again for the info.

 

I'm not trying to get in a he said / he said match with you but you did say "And the likelyhood of any said camera making a difference in this case is about zero. For many of the reasons why a single camera, or even a handful won't make a difference at the pools." That's your opinion. That's why I posted facts on how its made a difference in similar situations. The likelyhood of cameras making a difference in this case is quite good, same with the pools. It is most definitely not 'about zero' and the links I provided prove that.

I think the op was acting like installing cameras could help nail vandals in the future. I agree.

Prevention, putting up a fortress, asking to be tested, going to court, etc etc is another topic(s) all to itself.

 

Eggcellent!

 

I used a Kodak instamatic once.

 

Well....I called the sheriff's office tonight and they came out and took my report. They remarked that they believe they know who may have done it since numerous reports have been filed on the same perpetrators in the area and that they are still investigating it and are talking to several neighbors that have filed reports from last night along Ridgeway Drive.

I am not at liberty to reveal much information but the police have a good idea of who it might be but aren't saying at this point. They are working to narrow down the list of suspects.

 

Amen.

 

This will take a little bit of effort, I estimate about 100 man hours, but have you thought about installing a "burning moat of fire" around your house?

 

Oh sure, keep laying on the bs!

 

Wow, I looked up that Axis P3344 you have. And I thought the $100 cameras were good... that is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg8tQSdDobU

Have you seen their newest model of the series? Checkout the zoom. Just don't look at the cost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnr5D_7pIks

 

Yep, they have some pretty cool stuff. Could not resist looking at the cost...

I first found out about them at a home show last year. The Control4 home automation guys said they used nothing but Axis, I had never heard of them before that.

Mike

 

Gene Weingarten of The Washington Post wrote:

======================================

Gene Weingarten: When did Halloween morph from a joyfully mean-spirited event involving fear, extortion and vandalism into the modern feel-good, squeaky-clean, everyone's-a-winner variant, where children find it appropriate to dress not as rotting dead things but as, say, "fairy princesses," and no one says boo? I don't know when it happened, but I don't like it.

In my downtown, gentrified Washington neighborhood, there is at least a little tension. Many of the trick or treaters are driven in from less affluent areas, presumably because the pickings around here are better. Some are teens who don't bother to wear costumes. This all makes some of the locals feel a little put-upon, which puts their earnest, egalitarian white liberal souls at war with their senses of middle-class entitlement. It all tends to all work out fine, but not without some angst and grumbles. I rather enjoy the show.

At 10 p.m. on Halloween night, my son, Dan, and I were loading something into his car in front of our house when a caravan of boys rode by on bikes. They were about 15. One of them yelled, "'Happy Halloween, motherf-----s,'" and flung an egg at us. It splattered the car.

Dan and I agreed it was the most authentic Halloween moment of our lives.

 

I wonder if this is legal to use in Virginia and whether it can be used if someone was to attack you if they were that close. This item cannot be used if the person is at a distance from you....

Legal questions are for "food for thought":

1) Can this be used against anyone who attempts to egg you (some lawyers say yes since you don't know what is in the person's hands and is attempting to throw at you..it could be a knife, egg, rock, or something and you can use this item to "protect" yourself and neutralize the person from throwing the item.

2) Does the law hold the person (victim) harmless and not responsible for adverse reaction to these pepper chemicals if being legitimately used for protection purposes against a personal attack by someone?

Just wondering here, 'tis is all. I saw the video and it seems to be a pretty good defense mechanism if you are alone at night or going to a dangerous place.