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Ballot referendum

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by robzilla, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. robzilla

    robzilla outta sushi

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    I just cast my vote--absentee--for next week's election. Don't know how many people out there know that there is a public vote on the $9,000,000 multi-purpose facility for South Riding.

    Now, from what I've heard through the grapevine and read on these postings, that multi-purpose facility was originally destined for Broadlands until Steve Snow routed it to South Riding. Our consolation prize is the planned YMCA.

    If what I recounted is true, can anybody tell me why any Ashburn resident would want to vote in favor of the funding?


    Robzilla
    "Whoa no. There goes Tokyo."
     
  2. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    Robzilla, I don't know who told you that, but you got told wrong. If you want the facts, you need to read the county CIP--six year facilities schedule that is evaluated/updated every year as part of the budget process. There is a Broadlands community center (which I heard two years ago when it was proposed by county staff to be accelerated from 2007 funding to 2002 funding, that it was to be the first publically funded county facility that was to be built just for the use of the commmunity it was located in--at least that's what the grapevine said down here to get us all mad at Ashburn--divide and conquer is the name of the game in Loudoun politics, and it is played very well.)

    The money in the bond is for engineering and architecture for the proposed Dulles South rec/community facility. It has also been in the CIP for years, and was proposed for acceleration last year by Parks and Rec, because they determined (and were in the process of doing so before this board was elected--this year's school CIP is being drafted as we speak) that Arcola community center needed total replacement. The building has sewer and water issues, possible asbestos ones, and no functioning kitchen for the senior facility located there. It is an old school building dating from the Roosevelt era.

    The site for the proposed replacement is in South Riding because Parks and Rec owns land there (approx 34 ac) from one of our proffers. Last year's proposed total replacement was somewhere around $72M. What ended up happening in the budget was allocation of existing funding to replace the square footage of Arcola (senior facilities plus community space, approx 9K sf), and drafting into the annual revision of the CIP a phased approach to eventually getting the total center built. This year is design, and sometime in the future is the rec components.

    The YMCA is a completely separate issue, with a history all its own.

    Do some back reading and get a copy of the proposed CIP when it is released (January), and you'll find whatever the Parks and Rec staff suggests this year for both the Broadlands facility (returned to 2007 in the 2002 budget cycle), and the phasing of the DS facility.

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  3. ssripada

    ssripada New Member

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    Are these Forums for both Broadlands(Ashburn) and South Riding Residents?

    Just Curious :)
     
  4. jeanne

    jeanne New Member

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    Barbara...you may want to thank (?) Steve Snow if this doesn't get passed. He seems to be making many enemies in the county. Check out the Leesburg Today...
    http://www.leesburg2day.com/current.cfm?catid=17&newsid=9650

    You know how those folks in the West do turn out to vote!

    The grapevine...is this Snow? He does seem to be doing very well at the divide part of it...as for the conquer...I'm not so sure about that.
     
  5. neilz

    neilz New Member

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    If you're not sure what the bond issues are for, please check out yesterday's Loudoun Extra, or go to the Washington Post website.

    This bond issue includes: A center in Purcellville, a community center in Dulles South, and to buy land for a park.

    The Purcellville package will renovate an 80 year old school currently being used as a community center. It will upgrade the electrical, plumbing and heating systems. Additional monies would be used to complete a performing arts center that has been built in Purcellville. Lovettsville would get land for a park, and the current Arcola Comminity Center would be replaced with the new multipurpose building in South Riding. All functions currently housed in the Arcola building would be moved there.

    This bond issue covers the County Parks & Recreation, more details in the Washington Post article.

    FWIW ... the community center replacement has been on the books for a while, way before Snow was elected. The center that was proposed for the YMCA site, was always that, just a proposal that would not have been funded until 2010 or later.



    Neil Z.
    Resident since 1999
     
  6. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    Hi ssripada. There are several members who don't live in Broadlands, and I'm one. I put my name and where I live as my signature so that anyone who doesn't want to read me can easily ignore me. If I break forum rules, I'll get bounced like anybody else.

    Jeanne: As NeilZ pointed out (thank you NeilZ!), there are western issues on the parks bond as well. The west has historically had a much higher turnout because they know they have to: two thirds of the landmass of the county divided into two districts tells you how sparse the population is in relation to our area, and every vote does indeed count.

    I guess if the western voters want to, they can attempt to spite Snow by voting the bond down, but I seriously doubt they'd do that to Franklin Park and the performing arts center, the Blue Ridge community center, or most particularly to Mayor Walker and Lovettsville. This is a very un-hardcore-Republican thing to say, but even if Lovettsville was the only thing on the bond I'd support it, because that woman is an example of gracious advocacy that I wish more people in her neck of the woods understood. Mayor Walker and the Lovettsville citizens who have been active on that park issue have been before the board literally for years getting support for all the bits and pieces that had to come together to get this on the bond. They have been positive all the way, and it's hard not to respond to that.

    Which brings me to divide and conquer: insinuating rumors with just enough information to catch people's interest have flown before elections, boundaries, you name it since I've been here. Before Little River elementary opened, my neighborhood was leafleted, telling people in the vicinity of the new school that they would be bused out of the neighborhood so that the first residents in the front section of SR could be bused to "the SR school". Guess what? They're ALL COUNTY schools. (Just like they're all county parks.) But that didn't prevent people from being snippy to one another by neighborhood until it all got sorted out. The facts are out there, but to anyone with an agenda, rumors and insinuations are much more useful.

    As for Mt. Zion, as far as I know, a 501(c)3 shouldn't be hosting political rallies, and that's what this was. I'm glad L2day printed that the PEC was running the show. Really interesting to me was that York's aide (who is also on the Purcellville TC, and people raised conflict issues with keeping his county govt job when he ran for that) was one of three speakers at the event (which was to launch two groups consisting of the other two speakers--both previously of the Eastern Loudoun Civic Network). I imagine he was representing York, who was out of the country, but he apparently never said so. One news source listed him as York's aide, one as Pville TC. The speech was pure political anti-growth. If he is on a western township's governing body, and holds a job in the county government, he really ought to begin any remarks at any public events clearly stating who he is representing, and reading prepared remarks. Particularly if he is at a political event by a 501(c)3 in another district. So, yes I'm sure Snow made some enemies by calling them on it, because it was egregious. And what the heck was that in the article about the PEC not needing to ask permission to use a county facility? Really?





    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  7. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Barbara,

    Your conclusion may be right, about the meeting. And I have no reason to disagree with you, but it sure looks like an attempt to censure opposition.

    Why get in a food fight, they are going to meet regardless of the location. I don't see the big issue in letting them meet where they did.

    Good solid debate helps everyone. We've definately seen it in this forum.

    As for Mt. Zion, as far as I know, a 501(c)3 shouldn't be hosting political rallies, and that's what this was. I'm glad L2day printed that the PEC was running the show. Really interesting to me was that York's aide (who is also on the Purcellville TC, and people raised conflict issues with keeping his county govt job when he ran for that) was one of three speakers at the event (which was to launch two groups consisting of the other two speakers--both previously of the Eastern Loudoun Civic Network). I imagine he was representing York, who was out of the country, but he apparently never said so. One news source listed him as York's aide, one as Pville TC. The speech was pure political anti-growth. If he is on a western township's governing body, and holds a job in the county government, he really ought to begin any remarks at any public events clearly stating who he is representing, and reading prepared remarks. Particularly if he is at a political event by a 501(c)3 in another district. So, yes I'm sure Snow made some enemies by calling them on it, because it was egregious. And what the heck was that in the article about the PEC not needing to ask permission to use a county facility? Really?





    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
    [/quote]
     
  8. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Please clarify. Related to the South Riding Rec Center is the bond only covering engineering and architectural expenses? If so, do you know how much?

     
  9. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    AFGM: It's A&E design for the whole thing, and it might be phase 2 as well--i.e more community space for county programs. Phase 3 is the gym/pool etc, which brings the total up to the $70+M mark originally proposed. I know the first phase is duplication of existing space at Arcola, so that ongoing county programs there can basically move to a new facility w/o too much interruption. Apparently the current LCPRCS position is to use Claude Moore as the benchmark for county rec centers, and since it was DOA in last year's budget to accelerate so much so much, a phased approach is what did pass. I think there was a county PIO press release when what went on the bonds was settled, so the exact specs should be on the county web for everything included in that bond.

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  10. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    P.S to AFGM: of course it looks like an attempt to censure opposition. Isn't that the point in telling part of a story the week before an election? ;)

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  11. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    Antidotally, it will be interesting to see what Lovettsville does with it's portion of the bond, if passed.

    It has taken them Lovettesville 5 years to use there portion of the 1999 Library bond. The 1999 Library bond included the Ashburn Library, a technical systems upgrade, and the renovation of Lovettsville . The Lovettsville library is currently closed for the work. The most significant delays were associated with town politics. The good news is, they finally got it right, and will be getting their library enhanced.

     
  12. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    robzilla-
    Regarding the timing of funding and building community centers and the YMCA:
    The priority given for recreation facilities is:
    1) Claude Moore. This facility had a bond referendum for financing passed several years ago. Note that it still is not built. Why? Because, in large part, the county does not want to incur the additional debt, even though the voters approved it.
    2) Broadlands. The dates for a bond referendum were a moving target, but it looked like it was going to be this year or next year.
    3) South Riding. Not sure what years had been floating around previously for this one.

    The point I want to make here is that even if the voters approve money to build a rec facilty, there's no guarantee if and when it will actually be built.

    When the YMCA proposal came along, it seemed like this would be a good way to get a recreation facility built without incurring any additional debt to the county.

    Since the county is supporting this idea, South Riding would be the next in line to get a facility built. If someone thinks that a county facility would have been a better deal than the YMCA, that is debatable. Given that there was overwhelming community support for the Y, I don't have any problems with the decision by the county to support it.

    The county has decided to lump funding requests together rather than listing them as separate items. I believe they did this to further they're liklihood of passing, rather than allowing funding decisions to be based on geographical location in the county. For example...if the western part of the county wants to take another shot at Steve Snow's South Riding, they have to take a shot at themselves as well.
     
  13. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Good points Cliff.

    The irony of these bond issues is; we are actually only approving the funding mechanism, not the project. Obviously, if a bond referendum loses it provides political fodder for opposition, but reality is it is only approving the financing vehicle.

    Hence, the County likes to bundle the requests, crossing jurisdictions, because in most cases the bond funding is the least expensive financing option.

     
  14. robzilla

    robzilla outta sushi

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    Thanks everybody, for the background. I appreciate the clarification and the debate, even if Steve Snow doesn't...

    Another out-of-curosity question: does South Riding have an online forum? If so, where can we find it?


    Robzilla
    "Whoa no. There goes Tokyo."
     
  15. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    AFGM: You're right about funding mechanism. How the projects themselves get approved or not is the jockeying every year for CIP approval--some things move up, some move back etc. Once something actually gets IN the CIP is a big hurdle, but anyone with a project they love has to be very active during budget time, because the six-year plan gets evaluated and adjusted every year as you know.

    "Bundling" is common, and I think it originated to protect school issues--with the western elementaries being proportionally so much smaller than their eastern counterparts, the feeling has been for a long time that it ill serves smaller communities to have to educate the entire county on the need for a new roof at their kids' building, and separate decisions can allow a genuine need to get shafted.

    Robzilla: SR doesn't have a forum online. The POAA compliance with a free and open means of uncensored communication is a comment book in Town Hall lobby. Use of the internet hasn't stood up in court for any FOIA or FOIA-type compliance, because if even one person does not have access, it doesn't serve everyone. We do have a webiste, which primarily serves as info clearing house--county, community/committee info. They often publish surveys there (which has its own attendant stickies over the fact that anyone can--and does--reply, which makes it difficult to determine who actually does or doesn't support a new tennis court vs. an outdoor grill area). The closest thing might be the Letters to the Editor, which are submitted with a name and address form to be considered (much like applying to this forum, but any letters selected are printed with the actual name--not address or e-mail--of the writer shown. There is no anonymity). Staff reserves the right to edit anything submitted.

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     
  16. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    That's a heck of a lot of money just for A&E? Are you sure there isn't any bricks and mortar in it. If the project requires that much planning, maybe there should be some thought to thinking of a smaller project.

     
  17. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Here is correct information on Parks & Rec bond referendum from Leesburg2day.com


    Schools Print | E-mail

    On The Ballot: Parks & Recrecation Projects
    Margaret Morton

    Nov 01, 2004 -- There are four choices on the public facilities projects section of the Nov. 2 bond referendum. Voters will be asked if they wish to support a bond issue in the amount of $15,430,000 for four county projects:
    Franklin Park Performing and Visual Arts Center: Toward the completion of the arts center in Purcellville, including electrical, plumbing, fire suppression, heating and air conditioning, telecommunication and computer systems; interior finishing; theatrical systems including lighting, sound and stage curains; and exterior finishing. ($1.4 million)

    Lovettsville Park: Toward the purchase of a 91-acre site to be used for a regional park on the eastern edge of Lovettsville, for passive recreational use. ($1.3 million)

    Dulles South Multi-Purpose Facility: For Phase 1 construction of a new center to replace Arcola Community Center. Replacement space includes classroom, gym and preschool space, a Senior Café, administrative offices. Future components include space for community programs, pre-school and daycare, meeting rooms and classrooms, recreation and fitness areas, and a 25-yard lap pool and leisure pool. At complete buildout an 84,000 square foot community/recreation center building will be located on county-owned land within South Riding.

    Loudoun Valley Community Center: For the building and system upgrades to the aging infrastructure at the 1922 former school in Purcellville, including to electrical, plumbing, fire suppression, HVAC, secdurity and information systems; exterior and interior finishes and reconfiguration of program space and improvements to site utilities including parking. ($3.730 million)
     
  18. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    AFGM: I pulled the specs this afternoon, after reading your second to last post the a.m. Glad you posted the news item.

    The way the $9M breaks out is $3.7M for A&E of the total (listed at 83K sf in the county docs of last April) facility, and $5.3 for construction of the first 23.9K sf, to include duplication of Arcola services, i.e. community meeting/teaching/program space, and senior services component. Apparently the additional sf is more class/etc space, as well as construction of the county office component.

    Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
     

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