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President George W. Bush

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by DAD4, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    The enlightend? Please, I have had enough of the constant blather about how conservatives (especially those in the rural midwest) are too stupid to understand the "nuanced" reality of the real world. Why is it that liberals always assume they hold the monopoly on education and "enlightenment"? That condescending attitude is one of the main reasons Republicans "rolled" the Democrats yesterday.
     
  2. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    How about my wife, who is an officer in the Air Force reserves? How about the 5 friends I have already lost in Iraq and Afghanistan? I see the casualty reports every day and it breaks my heart, but the sacrifice of those young men and women is the price we must pay to protect the ideals of America as we know it. Failure to win this war (not just Iraq, but the destruction of those who would destroy us and their safe havens) will only result in a greater cost of American lives futher down the road.

    Excuse my poor typing, meant to say C4. I never said that every possible ammo dump was secured before any looting could have occured. My point was that this particular report (last time I checked the UN ARC was still part of the UN so how was I wrong on that) does not pinpoint when the material disappeared, and that the explosives that are possibly missing cannot be used in typical truck bombs (it cannot be used like fertilizer bombs) or roadside bombs. So it is not accurate to state that any of the 380 tons of explosives are being used against the troops.
    It wasn't just the civlians who thought Shinseki was full of S***. A large majority of the field officers also thought his numbers were high by a factor of 2. The problem with the "we need more troops" clamor is that when you put 100k addtional troops in country, only 20k to 25k of that number will be actual combat troops. I am not saying that I agreed with the force projections that were used in the inital planning. My preference would have been to level all of Baghdad to rubble with Air Strikes.
    No one can say this war has been perfect or has gone exactly to plan. And I hear some of the same sentiments from the soldiers I talk to about the ambivalence of the Iraqis, but I hear more often that they feel we are doing the right thing and that the majority of the Iraqi people they love this country and are thankful we removed Saddam from power.

    Who do you want to admit to mistakes and which mistakes? I heard Gen. Franks say that the military did not anticpate the dissolution of the elite Iraqi forces before we even engaged them in combat. I heard the Army leadership state that based on their intelligence, they advised the President that there absolutely were WMD's still in Iraq and that they were completely surprised not to find any. I heard Rumsfeld say that we underestimated the level of the "insurgent" resistance.
     
  3. veronicasmommi

    veronicasmommi New Member

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    I think many of you need to pull out the tapes and watch the footage again of September 11th, the first world trade center bombing, the us cole bombing, the embassy bombings, etc. There are people in this world who just want to kill Americans, not just soldiers, civilians. They want to kill mothers, fathers children. Do you think the people who lost family members in these terror attacks are questioning our President? I am grateful that for once we have a president who will take the fight to terrorists or supporters of terrorists versus having the fight on our homeland. In case you all forget, Saddaam paid the families of palestinian suicide bombers for a job well done. That makes him a terrorist supporter. Aside of the WMDs, we should have gone into Iraq along time ago just for the human rights issues alone. Its very easy for you all to say what Bush has done wrong, but what would you do if you were in his shoes? His job is to do all that he can to protect America at all cost. Its a tough decision to make and I think he is making the right one. I for one do not want to have to worry about my child growing up in a world where she has to worry about someone wanting to kill her just because she is an American.
     
  4. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Yep Gays are a threat to America, Not! Howard Stern another threat! If it weren't for this stuff I would sleep easier.
     
  5. Mearen

    Mearen New Member

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    All you have to do is take a look around you and see how the lack of moral integrity in this country does indeed harm America.
     
  6. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    What business is it of your what consenting adults do behind closed doors, none. How would you like me to tell you that your religion is stupid and should be outlawed because it cause more problems then it solved? You wouldn't.

    The push is already starting for a constitutional amendment. It wont happen thankfully due to the Northern states and cities but it scares me to see that America is going down this road where Rightest Fundamentalists think they can impose their religion and morals on everyone. To me there is no difference from that and what the Islamist extremist do. It's this close to the code of Hammurabi and Sharia law.

    And before you say, how do you know I'm a christian, blah blah blah. If you believe your morals are better then everyone elses then 99.9% you're probably Southern Baptist or some other sect.
     
  7. Farscape

    Farscape New Member

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    Mearen - Do you feel that gay people lack moral integrity? Do you honestly think that forcing ones beliefs on others is the right thing to do? What do you care what someone does as long as they do not harm anyone?

    Some of the most hypocritcal people are highly religious and it is my opinion they are the ones who tend to lack moral integrity. Look at the Catholic priests who molested little boys- how moral is that?
     
  8. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Yeah, and what about the sniper who was killing all the abortion doctors? Same as the death threat on Rushdie!
     
  9. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    The Federal Marriage Amendment does not ban gay marriages. In fact, since it seems everyone wants to blame the Republicans as anti-gay, it was the democratic controlled Senate who passed and Bill Clinton who signed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. The aim of DOMA or the FMA is not to ban gay marriages, FMA as originally proposed would bar state courts from requiring local governments to allow same-sex partners marriage or domestic partnership, or civil union status ("the legal incidents thereof"). This might prohibit any court from ordering that equal civil rights be granted among homosexual couples, such as these spousal exemptions and benefits.

    What FMA does not preclude is the ability of the state legislatures to enact laws allowing gay marriage. So if a state wants to allow gay marriages they can, but it keeps federal and state judges from creating laws out of thin air (as the federal judges in Mass. did). It also addresses what some have interpreted as a legal problem with the original DOMA which is that the "full faith and credit clause" which requires states to recognize the "acts, records, and proceedings" of other states applies to marriages. Which would in effect allow a single state to determine the recognition of marriage for all other states.

    For me this is not a morals issue, but a states rights vs. federal rights issue. Why shouldn't we let the indiviual states determine how they wish to interpret and apply marriage laws.
     
  10. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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  11. veronicasmommi

    veronicasmommi New Member

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    You are focusing on one thing and one thing only, the gay issue. I agree with let the states decide. I did not say one thing about that issue. As for mearens comment, did he say gays were immoral? No he said morality is lacking in this world. You need to stop putting words in other peoples mouth. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion but be careful in trying to interpret it. There is a big lack of morality in this world and a big lack of responsibility. If you cannot see that this is an issue in every race, background or religion, than no one can make you see what you seem to not want to see.
     
  12. veronicasmommi

    veronicasmommi New Member

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    Oh, and the news is always right.
     
  13. thndrkats

    thndrkats New Member

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    I just read this entire thread and it's a confusing whining mess. I can't help but truly wonder what a democrat's "perfect" America would be. So far this much is clear about what they believe:

    1) Middle americans are dumb hicks that can't think for themselves
    2) The war in Iraq is a mistake, a failure, and pointless
    3) We need to be pals with France and Germany
    4) Morals should not be a part of governing the country
    5) Standing up for freedom militarily is never justified unless we have France and Germany on our side.

    Democrats: I'm interested in understanding what would your present-day America be like? (Keep in mind that 9/11 did happen and we are at war)

    Thanks!
     
  14. Farscape

    Farscape New Member

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    Veronica- I think you should let Mearen speak for his/herself. You are putting words into my</u> mouth. I just asked a simple question stemming from a response that brought up the gay issue. Mearen's direct response to that implied that gays lack moral integrity. I asked Mearen the question to see if that was what he meant. I never said that homosexuality was the only issue. I also never said that the world is a perfect place. Practice what you preach and stop puttin words in other people's mouths. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I am speaking mine, sorry that you cannot handle it.
     
  15. veronicasmommi

    veronicasmommi New Member

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    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including me. I don't have a problem with that. I have just found that alot of people on this site are focusing on the homosexual issue, hence the response I got from my earlier post. As for me stating that mearen did not put gay in his statement, I just stated a fact, he did not say gay is immoral and I was only posting what he said. I apologize if I took your post the wrong way and interpreted your post incorrectly.
     
  16. Mearen

    Mearen New Member

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    Do you understand what moral integrity really is? Do you really think moral integrety is in any way tied to organized religion? Do you really think society doesn't force it's views on everyone already? Do you really think there is no such thing as a victimless crime?
     
  17. Farscape

    Farscape New Member

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    I fully understand what moral integrity is and organized religion is not it. People who lack moral integrity sometimes use organized religion to further their own causes through manipulation and brainwashing. Religion itself is not supposed to be that way, it is supposed to be something to believe in, something good, but it is often used for manipulation and hate.

    Moral integrity does not equal organized religion, moral integrity is an individual thing. Do you</u> know what moral integrity is? I never said that religion was the only negative force out there, all I asked was a question from your post that you have not answered.

    Do you believe that gay people lack moral integrity?
     
  18. greggbroadlands

    greggbroadlands New Member

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    1) Middle America? By geography or status?
    2) Yes, the war in Iraq is a pointless mistake and a failure brought to you by our wonderful President.
    3) We don't need to be pals with France and Gremany
    4) No, religion should not be a part of governing our country.
    5) We should not kill and invade anyone the President deems is a threat, if so we'd be into North Korea and Iran next. Well why not, kill them all and let God sort them out, right??

    It wouldn't have a multi-trillion dollar debt like it has now....
     
  19. thndrkats

    thndrkats New Member

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    Thanks for the non-answer.

    4) My liberal statement was that morals should not play a part in governing. And you said No, Religion should not be a part of governing. Here's the problem, there is a difference between morals and religion, even if sometimes they are tied. Should morals be a part of governing the country?

    5) Remember, the president does not unilaterally send troops to war.
     
  20. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Puhlease! It was a direct response to my quote which did include gays. One can only conclude that Mearen is Homophobic and views it as immoral. Correct me if I'm wrong Mearen.
     

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