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Belmont Ridge @ W&OD Trail - Bike Rules question

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by StevieD, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. StevieD

    StevieD New Member

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    Ok, hoping I can get some info or opinion here. At the W&OD crossing on Belmont Ridge, how does the right of way work? Is it a full stop for cars if they see bikes approaching? Or do bikes yield the right of way, full stop and cross when it is safe? The uncertainty here continues to exasperated me. I always slow down approaching the crossing in my car, but treat the crossing as if I have the right of way. Many times I have been behind cars who slow down, hesitate, then decide to do a full stop at the last minute - creating a very dangerous situation. However, perhaps I am wrong and that is the proper way to regard the intersection.

    Anyone have either firm regs on this, or accepted etiquette?
     
  2. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    you have a stop sign - the cars do not. The cars are supposed to yield to people in a crosswalk but do not need to stop for someone waiting at a crosswalk - but you can't just step out in front of a moving car and expect them to stop either.

    cars stopping there are doing so out of courtesy. The trail has a stop sign for a reason...
     
  3. StevieD

    StevieD New Member

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    That has been my assumption (by the way, I am not a biker, I have been speaking from the vehicle point of view). Today, I was yelled at by a group of bikers stopped at the crossing - I think they viewed the crossing like a 4 way stop!
     
  4. sharse

    sharse TeamDonzi rocks!!

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    Bikes are required to stop. (Police can and have ticketed cyclists who do not come to a stop and put their foot on the ground at stop signs.) Cars are not required to stop. However, being a cyclist myself, if there isn't a lot of traffic behind me and I see a few bikes waiting to cross, I'll slow or even stop to let them go through. Not required by me when I'm in the car... just a courtesy if traffic on Belmont Ridge is light at the moment.
     
  5. Rhaegar

    Rhaegar Member

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    I think the assumption is that courteous people will stop. Those perceived as non-courteous may get yelled at.
     
  6. Mom8386

    Mom8386 Member

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    It is not a 4 way stop in any way. The squiggly lines on Belmont Ridge are a way to make people slow down some, not stop. The bikers have a stop sign. We have almost been rear ended several times due to someone stopping in the road to let bikers go. The assumption is that traffic keeps moving and when someone stops, they are really screwing with the flow of traffic. The bikers need to stop and wait til it's safe to go just like they would in a car at any intersection with two stop signs. This really bugs me when I'm endangered by someone stopping, thinking they're being "nice" to let bikers cross.

    It's actually kind of funny because bikers ignore traffic lights and stop signs all the time, yet they expect drivers to stop where they shouldn't. They can't have it both ways.
     
  7. StevieD

    StevieD New Member

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    I absolutely agree with Mom8386 - we have come very close to getting rear-ended as a result of someone trying to "be nice". Had I stopped today to "be nice"' there was a good chance the guy behind me would have hit me. My original post was intended to determine if I was actually wrong not to stop from a traffic regulation perspective.
     
  8. twubs

    twubs New Member

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    Don't put all cyclist in this category. I ride to work a few times a week on the roads and follow all traffic laws as if I am in a car. I pull up behind you at a stop light and wait for the green just like you. Would it be fair to put all drivers in the same bucket when I am doing 20+ mph on a two lane road and the speed limit is 25mph and I almost get blown off the road by some one speeding by.

    Cyclist need to be more mindful of the rules of the road and drivers must be aware that bikes are considered a vehicle on the road and should be respected.
     
  9. Brit

    Brit New Member

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    What we need is a nice little "flyover" bridge. I'd hate to have to cycle across that road.
     
  10. twohokies

    twohokies New Member

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    If vehicles are paying attention and slowing down, there should not be any problem whatsoever when a vehicle ahead makes the decision to stop for cyclists. I realize that this is common courtesy and respect for others that continues to fizzle away in this country.

    If traffic speeds allow for it and I see cyclists waiting to cross I always stop. I am not a cyclist.
     
  11. StevieD

    StevieD New Member

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    I think if there is nobody behind you, it's fine. The problem is that given it's not a stop, people behind you are not expecting you to come to a stop, and this can endanger both you and them. It's not like you are driving through a neighborhood at 10 miles an hour - this is a state road throughway where people are traveling at 45 mph.
     
  12. bgirl

    bgirl New Member

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    I think it's also important to remeber that Belmont Ridge has two directions of traffic, and just because you stop at the trail to let somebody cross, there's no guarantee that oncoming traffic will stop as well. This is why I slow down but don't stop. I think it's safer all around.
     
  13. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    There are many roads this path has to cross... this one has faster traffic but isn't as bad as many of the other crossings. You just couldn't build a flyover at all of 'em :)

    The path has to cross through downtown Herndon... crossing at hunters mill rd, etc. And many of the crossings through Reston are just as perilous even though they are just on side roads.
     
  14. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Common courtesy is one thing but stopping in the middle of the road where there is no stop sign is very dangerous. At that location slowing down is appropriate for cars but the stop is mandatory for bicycles.
     
  15. amye

    amye New Member

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    This was recently a topic in the local paper. If you are in a car and stop, you can be ticketed. I'm one of the guilty ones who always stopped for bicycles out of courtesy, but not after reading that.
     
  16. mikebnllnb

    mikebnllnb Active Member

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    Motorists should only stop if a pedestrian is in the crosswalk. Stopping at crosswalks where no light/sign is present creates a hazard for all.
     
  17. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    These squiggly lines should be removed. Obvious from these comments and comments on other forums, no one knows exactly what they mean or what they are telling you to do.

    If anything the squiggly lines should be painted on the bike paths, that's were the stop signs are. If VDOT wants a vehicle to slow down then reduce the speed limit and put signs up with the reduced speed. If they want vehicles to yield to bikes then put a sign up. If they want vehicles to stop then put up a stop sign. But remove those stupid and dangerous squiggly lines.

    I agree with a few others here, it is absolutely a dangerous practice for vehicles to stop at this crossing. Rear ending is possible, but I most worry about a car stopping, biker proceeding to cross, and then have a car approaching from the other direction go right on through without stopping. Bad news and the second car would not be at fault if I biker was hit. Some would say the car stopping would be at fault for blocking the view of the intersection.

    I never stop at this crossing, and I honk my horn if someone does stop.
     
  18. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    It is my understanding that the lines are there to get a driver's attention so they are know they are approaching an area where they should pay attention. You know, put down the cell phone for a few seconds.
    It is not intended for vehicles to slow below the speed limit, let alone stop, for anyone waiting to cross.
     
  19. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    *Nodding here in agreement*
     
  20. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    I must admit that after searching and finally finding traffic law information for Virginia, the documentation is a bit confusing:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924

    § 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.

    A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

    1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

    2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

    3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.​

    B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this section, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device.

    No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.

    The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously.

    Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians.

    C. The governing body of Arlington County, Fairfax County, the City of Fairfax, the County of Loudoun and any town therein, and the City of Alexandria, may by ordinance provide for the installation and maintenance of highway signs at marked crosswalks specifically requiring operators of motor vehicles, at the locations where such signs are installed, to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians crossing or attempting to cross the highway. Any operator of a motor vehicle who fails at such locations to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians as required by such signs shall be guilty of a traffic infraction punishable by a fine of no less than $100 or more than $500. The Commonwealth Transportation Board shall develop criteria for the design, location, and installation of such signs. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any limited access highway.

    (Code 1950, §§ 46-243, 46-244; 1958, c. 541, § 46.1-231; 1962, c. 471; 1968, c. 165; 1972, c. 576; 1976, c. 322; 1989, c. 727; 2000, c. 323; 2002, c. 327; 2004, c. 658; 2007, c. 813.)
     

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