Four Way Stop Question

OK here's the deal I sent an email to the Virginia State Police. Below you will see my email then the response. In a nutshell at a 4way stop it's first come first served.
(note: my scenario is a bit different than JLC's)

MY EMAIL

Hello,
I hope you can resolve a question I have about 4-way stop intersections. There seems to be a great deal of debate about this in my community.
When vehicles approach an intersection controlled by a 4-way stop what is the law on who yields to who? I can find no specific law defining this. There is a law "§ 46.2-820. Right-of-way at uncontrolled intersections, generally" which states

"Except as otherwise provided in this article, when two vehicles approach or enter an uncontrolled intersection at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right"

But what if it is controlled by a stop sign? Say you have the following situation at an intersection controlled by a four way stop sign.
A
B ...
C

Car "A" gets to the intersection first. Then car "B" arrives. While car B is waiting for A to clear the intersection car C arrives. Does B yield to C since C is to the right or does C yield to B since B arrived at the intersection first?
In other words is it first in first out or do drivers need to yield to the vehicle on the right no matter what order they arrived at the intersection?

Thanks for any help in this.

RESPONSE FROM STATE POLICE


Lieutenant Colonel E.A. Stockton, Director of the Bureau of Field Operations for the Virginia State Police asked that I thank you for and respond to your e-mail of February 2, 2006, concerning a 4-way intersection.

The Code section you identified is not totally applicable to the example you provided. Section 46.2-820 addresses "uncontrolled" intersections. Your example is an intersections with stop signs. The inclusion of stop signs make it a "controlled" intersection.

With regards to an intersection without signs as in your example, "C" would proceed first as he has no on to his right. It would then continue in that progression.

At an intersection controlled by stop signs, you are correct in that it is a first come first served. The State Police has always advised drivers in these situations to proceed with caution and drive defensively to ensure the other drivers are aware of the protocol.

I hope this addresses your concerns.

Bud Cox
Business Manager
Virginia State Police
804-674-2127
Bud.Cox@vsp.virginia.gov

 

That's BS if you ask me. Does that mean if there is a whole line of cars on your right, they all go before you? No. It's first in first out, unless cars come at the same time, then the driver to the right protocol kicks in.

 

I love it when a state trooper trumps Neilz

 

I think it is really interpreted as 'first to the stop bar, first out'. Just because you are in line coming to the stop doesn't mean you are AT the stop sign yet.

 

Yes that is the what they mean. One at a time from a given direction. First one to the stop sign, bar, crosswalk etc. Whatever designates the entrance to the actual intersection. Even if one direction is 10 cars deep and the other only has two. Drivers are to alternate one at a time.

 

With the possibility of four cars arriving (sometimes as many as eight at certain four way stops with two lanes per side) I think it makes sense for the "yield to the driver on the right" to come into play. Then everyone is moving in a clockwise direction without having to pay attention to "East got there first, then North, then South, then West.", etc.

 

I still say opposing directions should go at the same time. If there are cars at NSEW, then the N/S should go at the same time, then it's the E/W people's turn. If only one at a time goes, the intersection is being taken up by only one car at a time when the opposing vehicle could proceed with no problem. You don't see stop lights only letting one direction go at a time...it's opposing directions with a green or red (provided there's nobody in the turn lane). I'm not saying it's the legal, but it shoudl be and thats how most intersections operate anyhow.

 

Actually, his reply is in conflict with the Virginia Drivers Manual, which I quoted:

So, it only goes to show that even the State Police aren't sure !!






Neil Z.
Resident since 1999

 

Yes, alternate direction traffic at same time is the best way, and the way most of the backed up 4-way stops around here work.... the only time it gets messed up is when you have turners.

 

Niel,
You are mis-interpreting that section. If you read it in the context of the entire "rules of the road" section it makes more sense. The main rule that applies here is a vehicle must yield to any vehicle already in the intersection regardless of which direction they are coming from. If the driver to the left is there first, made the complete stop and proceeds into the intersection, the driver approaching from the right is still required to come to a complete stop. That driver is then required to yield to any vehicle that is already in the intersection at that time.

 

Around here I think the rule is everyone yields to the person with the more expensive car irregardless of when the person with the expensive car got to the intersection. Why's this? Cause the person with the expensive care will just keep going anyway because they are more important than you

 

I love it when Neilz thinks he trumps a trooper.

 

I make it simple......I pull up and stop. If someone else doesn't make a move to enter the intersection within 2 seconds, I go. No need to wait for people who don't know how to drive or are to busy on their cell phone to realize it's their turn to go.

 

OK .. now that sounds logical.

If driver A had already stopped at Broadlands heading west (toward the LCPS building), and driver B pulls up to the intersection heading north on Claiborne (toward the Greenway), Driver B must yield (that is not MOVE IN ANY WAY, turn right, etc)to Driver A.

Steve ... I agree with you, the yield to the driver on the right is a tiebreaker.



Neil Z.
Resident since 1999

 

Usually that person is also on the cell phone, shuffling some papers he's reviewing on the steering wheel. []

Neil Z.
Resident since 1999

 

I know there was a question about the Claiborne/Broadlands Blvd light but FYI regarding Claiborne/Waxpool light - they were installing the pedestrian walk/don't walk signs today. One step closer!

 

Also, this person must (1) always pass you in the short distance between turning right onto Broadlands from Claiborne and before turning into the Safeway, (2) ignore the two stops in front of Safeway, and (3) park on the curb where there is "No Stopping or Standing - Fire Lane" so they can beat you by 12-15 seconds to that triple half-caf, 2 raw sugar, steamy, foamy, upside down, extra hot, double-cupped and sleeved caramel macchiato...

 

Actually, for me it is "yield to the person that approaches the intersection the fastest," because the most aggressive drivers will be the first to go regardless.

I am glad I read this conversation, because it confirms that everyone is working on different assumptions, and you just have to approach every stop with common sense, patience, and little intuition (about who is really going to go).

 

It looks like everyone has done quite a bit of research on 4-way stops, but since the major intersections are more like 8-way stops around here, what rules apply to them?

All of the scenarios I have seen discuss 4 - one lane roads. I think the confusion comes in where here we have 4 two lane roads with random turning and straight vehicles. And of course to make things more interesting, intermittent use of turn signals to keep everyone on their "defensive" toes.

Has the HOA considered paying a guy $5/hour to stand in the intersections and direct traffic during the "hotspots"? At least this might help with the backups that occur in some of these more disputed intersections. If nothing else, it would lower the probability of an impact due to a driver misinterpreting the right of way.

I know I would sacrifice a Chai Latte a day to get home 5 minutes faster.