Greedway tolls raised again?

Jim,

Earlier this month I sent my comments to the SCC and other govnt officials. I wanted to let you know, that I sent emails to the following news outlets regarding the Greenway tolls:
WJLA (abc7)
WUSA (cbs9)
WRC (nbc 4)
NewsChannel 8
...with any luck one of these news outlets may run a story, around the time of the SCC hearing. Just because Loudoun County maybe the richest, does not justify our tolls to be one of the highest in the nation. Much less, paying to sit in the back up ( Morning and Evening rush hour) where the Greenway meets (bottlenecks) the Dulles Toll road. The main point I tried to convey is: How much revenue (from the Greenway) is actually being collected by the County and or State (VDot) to help fund traffic congestion?

 

There is an article in the Loudoun section of the Post today.

Explains all about the tolls and why and how they go about approving raises.

Quite interesting and should dispell some of the myths.

Lee J Buividas

 

Do you have a link to the article?

 

Seems they have not updated the online version. Still have thursdays and this is in sundays

I read it in the print version.

Lee

 

K, thanks!

 

Unfortunately, the Post did not get into whether TRIP II's assertions (they have lost money, and despite the proposed increase it will be a good value) are accurate. They just parrotted TRIP II's justification.

What they did say was that the SCC will not be giving much weight to the arguments that the tolls will be too high for many users to afford. This was Congressman Wolf's whine in the press (is this an election year?).

What the SCC is supposed to examine is:

Whether TRIP II is really in the red
Whether there will be a decrease in the number of users
Whether the toll paid is reasonable versus the other alternatives

Unless one of the CPA's around here wants to go review their books or we want to perform an analysis of cost vs. number of riders, we need to respond on the thing we know most about - the tolls and their value.

Send your response to the SCC:

If TRIP II wants to use a distance based method of calculating the value (i.e. a trip from Leesburg), then they should provide distance based tolls.

The value calculation should include the 20 minutes of waiting time to get off the Greenway to the DTR in the AM.

The cost for projects to add capacity should not be born by all users, but by the increased number of users generating more $.

Be like thePea2001 and submit your response!

-Jim

 

I did some additional digging into the Greenway's consultant's report. Believe it or not, they are skewing the time savings calculation to favor the Greenway. Here are the additional comments I submitted to the SCC:

(Remember: the last day for comments is Sept 28. You can place them at: http://www.scc.virginia.gov/caseinfo/notice.aspx )

--------------------------------------------
Further to my earlier comments, I have given additional examination to TRIP II's consultant's report that was submitted to the SCC. TRIP II is inflating the time savings of the Greenway versus the alternate route. The average speed for the alternate route was determined by using the average speed along the length of Route 7 from Leesburg to the intersection with the Dulles Toll Road (just west of Tysons Corner). But, the route used for the calculation of time savings was on Route 7 from Leesburg and then south on Route 28 to the intersection with the DTR. This method ignores the much faster speeds along Route 28 and includes the much slower speeds along the section of Route 7 in Sterling. If the calculation basis uses Route 28, then the average speed for that route should be the one used in the calculation of benefits, not a speed for a much slower section of roadway.

Further, the calculation does not take into account the time savings for the bulk of the Greenway's users coming from the Ashburn area. These user's alternate route is along Waxpool Rd. and Route 28. This much shorter route will have much lower time savings than those put forward by TRIP II.

This reinforces my earlier point that if TRIP II prefers to use a distance based benefit calculation as the method to support its application for higher tolls, then it should be required to install equipment to allow full distance based tolling. This would insure that the benefits are equal for all users and not just the smaller portion that use the full length of the road.

 

Jim,

I thought you might find this interesting, here is a link the corporate background of the Greenway, it's short and sweet.

http://www.innovativefinance.org/projects/highways/dulles.asp


Also back in July the Post ran an article about the proposed Toll Road going PRIVATE...the group that owns the Dulles Greenway, wants to buy the TOLL ROAD too... (with some help from other investors)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/25/AR2005072501754.html

NBC4 emailed me earlier this morning and what more facts, based on the story request I sent a few weeks ago.

 

Just wanted to Ping this one - if you havent - please be sure to send any comments to the SCC by tomorrow!!!!!! Every little bit helps!

 

Here is the text of the letter I just sent to the SCC:

-------------------------

Hon. Joel H. Peck
Clerk
State Corporation Commission
Document Control Center
Tyler Building - 1st Floor
1300 East Main Street
Richmond, VA 23219

Re: Toll Road Investors Partnership II, L.P. Case No. PUE-2006-00081
Comments Regarding Hunton & Williams October 12 Submission


Dear Mr Peck:

I have read TRIP II's October 12 submission to the SCC replying to the public comments received on the proposed toll increase. In their letter, TRIP II tries to categorize all of the comments as being baseless protests against the proposed increase without addressing those comments that questioned the validity of their arguments supporting their petition. There are three points in particular that were brought up in the public comments that go to the heart of TRIP II's reasoning and require an answer by TRIP II and careful consideration by the SCC:

o In calculating the cost per mile and benefit derived, TRIP II uses the entire length of the road as the basis. As the bulk of the riders do not use the entire length of the road, this basis is faulty. Most riders start or end their trips in Ashburn or points east and therefore use less than half the length of the Greenway. As such, the cost per mile for most users is double and the benefits are half of what TRIP II claims.

If TRIP II would like to calculate benefits and costs based on the length of the trip, then TRIP II should be moving forward with plans to install facilities to enable graduated tolls to be collected instead of the flat rate currently in place.

o TRIP II uses a skewed basis for the time savings to show a larger savings for the use of the Greenway than is actually the case:

 They use the entire length of the trip along Route 7 from Leesburg to near Tysons Corner as the basis for the average speed, thereby taking into account the very slow section of Route 7 through Sterling and Dranesville
 Then they apply this average speed to the route that goes from Route 7 in Leesburg to Route 28 to the junction with the Dulles Tollroad; thereby, ignoring the higher average speed that is enjoyed on Route 28

In addition, the time savings for short trip users coming from the Ashburn area is not calculated and is likely much less than those using the entire length of the Greenway.

o TRIP II claims that "the modified toll structure will allow TRIP II to undertake the capital improvements necessary to enlarge and improve the Greenway to meet the needs of an expanding patronage." The means for paying for the expansion projects that enable greater patronage should be the increased revenue that those projects generate not a toll increase that applies to all users. A toll increase paid by an existing user to expand capacity to allow an additional user is unfair. For example, a reasonable person would balk at paying a higher cost at the supermarket to fund the grocer's expansion plans.


In summary, TRIP II has used a flawed basis to justify their application for a toll increase and the application should be rejected.





Cc: Rep. Frank Wolf, via web email
Supv. Stephen Snow, ssnow@loudoun.gov
Del. David Poisson, DelDPoisson@house.state.va.us
Sen. Mark Herring, district33@sov.state.va.us

 

Jim, you are REALLY hard act to follow...and I mean that in a good way! I will re-read your comments and see if I can attempt to echo the same thoughts. Thank you again for the follow up.

 

Below is a response from the Dulles Greenway Folks....Dear Ms. Hodell,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us. We here at the Dulles Greenway appreciate all comments and suggestions our customers provide. Your feedback is an essential component in our quality control efforts.
First, with respect to your question regarding discounts on our toll structure, the current layout of the Dulles Greenway cannot accommodate distance based pricing. The Greenway was designed to maximize the efficiency of the toll collection process, thus expediting traffic flow. This design, much like that of our neighbor, The Dulles Toll Road, does not discount partial utilization.
Second, the owners of the Dulles Greenway, Toll Road Investors Partnership II, are working on a design exception with VDOT in order to have three lanes enter and exit the Dulles Toll Road. Heading westbound, we are currently repaving the bridge in order that three lanes continue and one lane exits at 9B, Sully Road South.
Again, thank you for voicing your opinion and if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our offices.

Ann Huggins-Lawler
Marketing & Public Relations Manager
The Dulles Greenway
Phone 703.668.0021
Ann Lawler [aelawler@dullesgreenway.com]​

 

Thats balony! The road was conceived with distance based pricing in mind as evidenced by the original charter granted by the SCC! And as for the structure, well it looks alot like the Jersey Turnpike, which is distance based.

They know that if they go distance based it will cost them money b/c they wont be able to gouge Ashburn anymore.

 

The in toll shouldn't be too bad with most in gates being credit card or smart tag/ez pass.

Exit, yeah they'd have to put up a ticket/ezpass booth up, but they knew this was coming and decided to waste there money for a decade before doing improvements to can the SCC into giving them a raise.

 

First, what data do they rely on? They present no data. Should I present the data or should they fully support there claim? They assume all users have the same trip length and therefore the same benefits. Is this accurate? Do you feel that you derive the same benefits as someone who rides the entire length? Second, who's side are you on? Are you in favor of the toll increase? Or do you at least want to make them work for it?

Yes, capital improvements can be funded by borrowing. But, is the loan paid back by INCREASING the fees for all the users? Or, should the loan be paid back by the increased revenue that the improvement brings in? To use my analogy, if Giant were to want to expand the capacity of its checkout lines to reduce waiting and thereby increase the number of customers and then after you checked out, you saw a special charge of $2 labeled as "Checkout Line Expansion Fee" would you feel that this is a justified charge? I wouldn't.

If Adelphia were to expand its network to more homes, should the loan be paid by a surcharge on all the customers, or should it be paid back by the subscription fees the additional users pay?

If Dish Network launches a new satellite to better serve the Pacific market, should I pay a higher fee?

-Jim

 

the problem with this picticular toll road is the benefit is only to the toll road owners. Roads should be built as an economic benefit to the residents not the opposite or at least to both.

Home Depot built their store on the toll rd because they thought it would benefit them. Where they screwed up was the cost of using the road outweighs the hard to get location when you don't use the road for the majority of the loudoun residents. Giant has made a bigger mistake, for different reasons.

This home depot is one of their worst performing stores in one of the richest counties. One of the reasons is the expensive toll road. Why???? if the road was free, people would not think twice to get off. But to pay the original over priced toll then pay again another over priced toll!!!! so people don't stop to shop their like they would if the road was free or much cheaper.

Lee j