Greedway tolls raised again?

in addition- the service there STINKS. the only good experiences we've had was working with a storm door expert- we have never been able to get good assistance from any other department, and we've tried paint, fans, oudoor sheds, lighting... it's worth taking the drive to Lowes to avoid the frustration of the overwhelmingly clueless staff.

 

Are they not obligated to prove their case? Is this not what the process is for? If they have access to more data, then they should present it. I have read the consultant's report. At the very least, on this point, they should calculate a weghted average benefit using the number of riders and the length of their trips.

The SCC should make the challenge. It is not for me to ultimately ferret out the data. I have no subpoena powers. I am simply making points that the SCC should further investigate. Hence the line of my letter that reads "...and require an answer by TRIP II and careful consideration by the SCC..."

See above. It is for the SCC to determine.

These are government entities not private corporations that are seeking to increase profit.

This might be true if the projects they are funding were to benefit all users. However, the projects that are being done are to make the toll road more accessible to the new users to the west, i.e. the new interchanges. You may argue that the widening to the west is for the benefit of many, but it is not for my benefit. Why should I pay for it? The widening to the west will only make the parking lot bigger for those queueing to get on Route 7/15. The new interchanges will only add more users to the road. Why should I pay for that? I will pay for widening the bottleneck at the junction with the DTR with a special assessment on rush hour commuters as that benefits everyone in that group.

Not so. If the wait in the line at Giant is too long, customers will find other grocery stores to go to. Hence, such a project will allow them to either maintain or increase their customer base, therefore it is a project with a payout to them not a value add for a customer.

In a competitive market, such as the grocery market here, have we seen any new entrant try to pass on the costs of their newbuild by charging higher prices? The difference in this case is that the competition is minimal. Yes there is an alternate - a not very attractive alternative. TRIP II knows this and will charge as much as it can to maximize its return. If this were a market with active competition, I would agree to let the suppliers charge what the market can bear. Unfortunately this is not the case and the state is not stepping up to provide competition via publicly funded roads. This was contemplated at the conception of this project and is the reason that state law requires three tests to be met to justify a toll increase.

The SCC is tasked with ensuring that those tests are passed by the applicant. Based on the past record, it seems to me that the SCC needs all the help it can get in examining TRIP II's statements and its consultant's report to fully understand whether those tests have been satisfied. I am not convinced that a regulator in Richmond knows the local situation well enough to ask the right questions. Without public input, the regulator can only read the consultant's report and the CEO's testimony and ask the obvious surface questions. This has resulted in rubber stamping TRIP II's past requests.

You may feel differently. Perhaps you welcome the toll increase. If so, you have the right to make public input to the SCC in support of the toll increase with your full name and address known to all. I have made mine.


-Jim

 

people are getting really stressed here for many reasons.

personally when transportation is a major part of life our goverment must jump in and solve the problem for all not just the ones that can afford it and soon

Lee j

 

Please advise us on what you have done in this regard.

I have already paid for those improvements with the last toll increase. Or, at least that was one of TRIP II's reasons for the last toll increase. It is this toll increase that is in play.

Please advise what "true counter point message" you have provided as input to the SCC. If none, perhaps rather than spending the time and energy sniping my efforts, your efforts would be better spent providing this message in a manner better than I have. In which case, I will applaud you for your effort.

-Jim

 

because I talked to one of the big shots in Atlanta before they actually built this Home Depot and asked the reason for this Location and was told visibility from the Toll Rd. What you have said also was the reason, the amount of roof tops they saw from the helicopter. I told them LCP would be a better location, but he said there was no location available soon enough. I then said you should wait because this will be a very lonely store. He laughed and said they are building a store more geared to the homeowner then contractor so they felt their research is correct and the store would be one of their biggest grossing stores due to the wealthy demographics and the type of store they were building and LOCATION and visibility from the toll road. They are wrong!!!!!

You say it is tucked away. But it is visible to more people then their reston or leesburg store. Yet it does not perform very well. The greenway should be an economic engine yet it is becoming a drain instead. It needs to be taken over by some government agency. The new owners are going to put a battle to get their increases and most likely will win with their deep pockets.

Greed has entered Loudoun County in a big way with no care for the environment the beauty of it etc. Greed is also destroying the golden egg and goose. Also just wait to the Iraq war is ended which will happen with the next president. Even baby Bush knows he has created one of the biggest messes of modern times will go down in history well as an IDIOT.

The reason I say this because a lot of the economics of Loudoun is based on defense and homeland security no war then not as much a reason for spending money. What does this have to do with the toll road??? If there are cut backs then people here will not drive it. So it hopefully goes broke and the state or whatever takes it back then then things start to get better. OK I am rambling on here so I will shut up. There is some good news on the planet Dalyn did not drag me out to Giant at 6am this morning to be used as a coupon.

A very wealthy developer told me during my first recession which is 6 back in Houston. Anyway he said a lot of money will be made during this recession it will just be made by fewer people and he was right it was made mostly by him when he bought things for 10 cents on the dollar. Ha ha ha He also said when people think it has first bottomed out, they are wrong it just gets worse. They are like the same people that thought at the height of the boom it would never crash. After writing all this I am sure most of you wished Dalyn dragged me to Giant this morning. I will try to be quiet the rest of the day.

Lee j

 

There are three tests that TRIP II needs to meet to be allowed a toll increase:

1. Is the increase required to enable them to achieve the return on their investment as allowed by law?
2. That the ridership will not decrease if the tolls are increased
3. That the benefit derived by the user is greater than the toll paid

Stating that the toll road is not an optional route as touted and that there is not enough E/W capacity (something we both agree on) does not refute the arguments that they have made to support their claim using the three tests.

I seek to help the SCC see that the benefit received is not as high as TRIP II calculates and the cost is higher and the benefits lower for the short trip users. Do I have hard data from a study of the number of vehicles entering and exiting each ramp? No. Does TRIP II? Maybe. Should the SCC ask to see what the average cost/mile and benefit received is for all the users and not just the full length users? Definitely.

If we are both opposed to higher tolls, I don't understand the reason for the energy you bring to this debate on my letter to the SCC. Is there something else at play here? What has touched a nerve?

-Jim

 

I just found the following the the Loudoun County Website. These meeting are the only chance we have to slow the increase in tolls... or at least get distance metering.

----------------------------------
RICHMOND -- The State Corporation Commission (SCC) has scheduled public hearings in January 2007 to consider a proposal by the owners of the Dulles Greenway to revise the toll structure for the roadway.

Two public hearings are scheduled in Loudoun County for Tuesday, January 30, 2007, one beginning at 2 p.m. and the other at 6:30 p.m. The hearings will be held in the Board of Supervisors Meeting Room, Loudoun County Government Center, 1 Harrison Street, S.E., Leesburg, Virginia. Any person wishing to comment at either of these hearings should arrive early and sign in with the SCC bailiff.

The case will continue in Richmond on Tuesday, March 13, 2007, at 10 a.m. in the Commission’s second floor courtroom located in the Tyler Building, 1300 East Main Street.

The SCC also is extending the public comment period on the proposal until January 30, 2007. All written correspondence should be sent to the Clerk of the State Corporation Commission, Document Control Center, P.O. Box 2118, Richmond, VA 23218, and refer to case number PUE-2006-00081.

Interested persons desiring to submit comments electronically may do so at the SCC’s website: http://www.scc.virginia.gov/caseinfo.htm. Click on the PUBLIC COMMENTS/NOTICES link and then the SUBMIT COMMENTS button for case number PUE-2006-00081. Electronic comments sent to any other SCC e-mail address will not be included as part of the proceeding.

The Dulles Greenway is a privately owned 14-mile toll road that connects Washington Dulles International Airport with Leesburg in Loudoun County. The owners, Toll Road Investors Partnership II, L.P., propose a price schedule that contains incremental increases in the maximum toll for two-axle vehicles over five years. The maximum base toll for cars would rise from $3, as now authorized to be effective July 1, 2007, to $4 as of January 1, 2012.

Toll Road Investors also seek permission to implement congestion management price premiums that would permit the maximum base toll to be increased by about 20 percent for weekday peak period traffic traveling in the peak direction.

 

Just wondering if anyone has read the Loudoun Independant, page 6...Take a look at the November 8th issue. Not only will TRIPS start increasing current tolls, NOW they are going to Charge an ADDITIONAL 20% congestion/traffic mgmt fee. You've got to be kidding me.

 

I agree with the LCP. But I can't help to think starting in January, not only will riders sit in heavy traffic (the bottleneck at DTR), the GREEDway folks will also tack on an additional 20% congestion fee, just so we can sit in the traffic snarl and stare at our neighbors, oh the joy!
That sounds like a super duper idea, NOT!
If and when the VA SCC approves the toll increase, I'll be sure to send a great big Thanks for looking out for Big/Profitable GREEDway and sticking hard to the average working Joe/Jane trying to get to their jobs...just to afford the GREEDway tolls.

 

I think this may have been addressed previously, but, let's think about this....

A private company owns a road. They charge a certain fee for drivers to use the road. The point of the road is to help drivers, who are willing to pay the fee, quickly get from point A to point B. If too many drivers use the road, it gets congested. So, the owners then raise the fee, in hopes that fewer drivers use the road and the congestion goes away.

Isn't that the whole point of supply and demand? Demand goes up, so do prices. Otherwise, you run out of supply.

[Now, I'm going to hear once again that this will just cause more traffic on Route 7 and Waxpool and that the Greenway owners should be nice guys and be willing to lose money just to help a public cause. I don't buy it.]

 

I agree with DCDavis to a certain point, I think that is fine to make a profit. I just wish the greenway corporation would find a way to eliminate the bottleneck when the greenway meets the DTR. This is the cause of a sizable portion of the delays,

Bear

 

And this is the Root of the issue, why on earth did the Commonwealth of VA agree to allow a PRIVATE Compay build and dictate the cost. Since the GREEDWAY bottle necks at the DTR Handoff. I am not the smartest person in the world, but how in the heck do you manage 6+ GREEDway lanes into 2 DTR lanes and not expect congestion..

 

And if they don't fix it, they will lose money?

I expect?

 

Fix #1: Raise tolls so that fewer people are willing to use the road, which then reduces congestion.

Fix #2: Greenway/VDOT work to expand the section b/t Greenway and DTR from 4 lanes to 6 lanes. But this is a long-term solution, in my opinion. (That's one big bridge over 28.)

A bit off the subject of my previous point, but still relevant to the discussion at hand: There has been quite a bit of talk about distance based tolls. I am all in favor of that, as it especially helps Broadlands residents.

BUT, I fear that if the Greenway were to initiate distance based tolls, the congestion you currently experience will pale in comparison to what will occur. Consider - all the cars from Broadlands, Loudoun Valley Estates, Brambleton (just to name a few) that currently use Waxpool in order to avoid the $3.20 toll. Can't you assume that at least half those cars would use the Greenway if the toll were, say, $1.00 or $1.50? Add all of these cars to the current traffic, and you've got yourself gridlock.

Let me reiterate, I think it is fair and just to charge based on distance traveled (and especially if the Greenway owners had promised this from the beginning), but I think they would continue to oppose it, not in small part because of the additional congestion that would ensue.

 

dcdavis-
I see one big underlying flaw in your argument...that the tolls have to rise to the level requested in order for the Greenway to survive and remain "profitable."
Call their bluff. Don't give them a nickel in toll increases and see if they go into default and the state has to take over the road. Or, watch them sail right along with their current cost structure and continue to make money.
Want to bet on which option prevails?