Loudoun County votes 5-4 to OPT IN to Silver Line

Well, there's a first time for everything!

 

we should just make all roads private and the owners can charge whatever they want.... the Greenway is a wonderful model and should be replicated far and wide!

 

Do you understand the concept of competition. You are paying outrages amounts for your government no bid transportation projects now.

 

What the ! (I assume you are kidding). Yes the Greenway is such a wonderfully engineered marvel of an epic Private/Public partnership failure, that we avoid it at all cost, saving our family >$300 a month on tolls.

 

How is it a failure?

 

Exactly.... and they are both failures. Government toll roads are " cheaper" because government provides something for nothing right?

 

Engineering Failure: 8 lanes down to 4 with 2 split routes, which creates miles of gridlock. Shows the P/P lack of communication between VDOT & GW.

Safety, LEO Failure: Because this is a private road, exactly who has jurisdiction on the road? VSP, LCSD, Metro PD, MWAA PD.

Economy of scale failure; lack of metered usage, one rate regardless of distance travels.

The notion that you presented that the Greenway is a marvel and was delivered under budget and on time, is wrong. In 1996 VDOT wanted their $3.6B from the private equity partners. 1998 Refinancing and first major increase to the $1.25 toll to $2.00.

The following is from the 1998 Forbes Art & TollRoad piece:
"FORECASTS: the Dulles Gway has become a sorry showcase of a project in trouble because of a shoddy traffic and revenue study. The “Financial Model for the Final Financing” filed with the state by the Gway projected annual toll revenues in its first year of operation as $22m - about 39k vehicles per weekday average. On the major press bus tour prior to the opening, Charles Williams, the TRIP representative said: “We expect 40,000 vehicles per day.” That number was based on conservative figuring, he said, referring to the traffic and revenue forecasts. The official spokesman for the Gway, Suzanne Conrad, told me before the opening in a vetted quote for a FORBES mag piece that they were expecting 24k to start with. At other times 34k by the end of the first year was quoted. So somewhere in the range 20k to 40k was expected at a basic toll $1.75, to go to $2.00.
In the first six months of operation weekday average weekday traffic was in the range 10k to 12k , so first year revenue was headed in early 1996 for something like $8m compared to the business plan’s $22m, and the project was immediately unable to meet debt service commitments. A near-halving of the basic toll ($1.75 to $1.00) slightly more than doubled traffic to the low to mid-20ks but the project has been unable to service most of its debt in its current financial configuration. The basic toll has since been increased to $1.25 but revenue remains about half projected levels. The original forecasting failure remains controversial. (See TRnl#32 Oct 98 p1)"

 

Yes, I'm joking... I was following suit with the tea-bagger =) Public roads are socialism!

 

Tea-bagger? I don't recall saying public roads were socialism. Just that private roads are better.

 

Yes, your viewpoints sound like you might be of that persuasion. Anyways... sure, the Greenway is a nice road, but it's overpriced. Imagine if all of the roads from here to DC were private and had their own tolls with equivalent costs per mile... it would cost $30 to get to work -- that's just crazy. I presume you want all the roads privatized and unregulated and then they can compete against each other to drive down prices? I'm not sure that would be the way to go, but that's just me.

 

It already does cost you. Don't you understand that?

 

Yes, I know, we should abolish the government and not have to pay any taxes.

 

Let's say we need another east- west road from ashburn to 28 south of waxpool. Wouldn't it be great if a group of investors with private capital came in a built another road in competition to the greenway.This would lower prices. You don't even know how much you pay for the roads you use. I know what I pay to use the greenway.

 

What you forget about is the waste involved when spending someone else's money. It is signifigant and the problem with government. It is not selfish that I am responsible for myself. What is selfish is expecting someone else to finance my needs.

 

Again, who holds your mortgage?
Ever had a car loan?

Roads are for the public good and toll roads are fine IMO as long as it is for upkeep, improvement, and payroll for employees. Roads should not be "taxed" to make a profit for some company.

 

the issue with private road developement is the builders can not get economies of scale