President George W. Bush

hahaha this thread is cracking me up.

It's obvious how pissed the democrats are that they lost the election and by golly this thread proves it. They are not the majority and it pisses them off. There's no reasoning with a pissed off democrat.

Anyway I find it funny that gregg here answers a question on morality by stating that religion should not be involved. So I ask then, you can't be moral without religion? I was unaware of that lol. If morality = religion then yes I would hope that our governing body is religious. No matter what religion they are. But that's just by your definition...

 

Ya know I'm probably appealing to the wrong group of people here cuz I haven't seen a rational democrat posting yet, but I'd like a democrat to describe what morality means to them. Good and bad, right and wrong, moral and immoral. In what capacity do you think these things should play a part in our society?

 

The statement was, "4) Morals should not be a part of governing the country". NO means morals are fine to be part of the governing, but religion should not. How is it that is so difficult to understand. Oh gee there's a difference between morals and religion? Does Bush know that?

What's so moral about GWB? His policy on the environment or the war he started?

 

lol read your post again, that's not what it says.

 

to me, morality is how you treat others, and conversly the example you set in doing so. In short, the golden rule, which has nothing to do with organized religion.

 

Seriously dude, you're still not answering the question. I'm not talking about GWB's morals! I'm talking about you explaining your position about morality.

 

OK, morality, how you conduct yourself, knowing the difference between right and wrong. What's your take on it?

 

It's funny how you assume that everyone who does not think the way you do is a Democrat. I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican.

I support the military and the war on Terror. I supported the Iraq war at first but I don't like the lack of planning in this stage or the fact Osama is still putting out tapes.

I support people upholding higher principles such as kindness, compassion, etc all attributes you would think apply to organized religion but then you have loonies like Fallwell saying its ok to kill gays and doctors who perform abortions.

It's ok to be religious, just keep it to yourself and in the church. If you think its ok to impose your morality on me then I will do likewise. There are so many religions, so many cults. How can you chose one based on a simple majority. You do that and I'll laugh my butt of when you're flavor of religion becomes the minority and becomes persecuted. In case you didn't know Hindus outnumber both Islam and Christians in the world and they are immigrating through our non-existent borders.

I'm not for abortions, but it's not my choice nor is it my burden. If you don't like what's on the TV or radio turn it off and for god sakes, take responsibility for raising your own children and stop blaming the radio, tv, video games for your failure as a parent.

 

Homer, did you actually write this? It makes a lot of sense!

 

A person's religion is demonstrated on how they treat others, that's not scomething you can keep to yourself. Society imposes it's morality on everyone every single day in the form of laws.

 

how people treat each other has nothing to do with what faith your practice. You can be an athiest and treat others with kindness and respect. You can also be the biggest church go-er ever and be a total jerk ... ie the trouble the catholic church has now with the pedophiles in its midst.

 

Like Islamic law? Like Hammurabi's code? An eye for an eye? Which religion should it be?

So shooting doctors who perform abortions is an expression of christianity? Having multiple wives, some under legal age, is ok to express as well? What if my religion says its ok to sacrifice goats in public? Some people never learned anything from the Crusades. History is doomed to repeat itself.

This nation is founded on freedom of religion. Not just your religion. There are many religions, which one is the right one? Yours of course.....

 

I don't really consider myself a democrat or republican, I have honestly voted for both but I do disagree with some of Bush's policies and so currently probably lean a little to the left (please don't crucify me for it!).

1) Middle americans are dumb hicks that can't think for themselves

Of course not!! I grew up in middle America my parents are still there and they are not dumb hicks! But I feel the campaign focused too much on social issues and not enough on other important issues. It is easier to get emotional (on both sides) over social issues than over issues such as the budget deficit, foreign policy, health care and jobs. Many of the questions I had were not asked even in the debates. The questions were so staged that BOTH candidates could dance around the answers. I used to really support the republicans on their stand on controlling spending but Bush has not done this. Now that they are in control of all 3 branches and Bush does not have to worry about reelection I hope they go back to that stand!

2) The war in Iraq is a mistake, a failure, and pointless

I do believe it was a mistake. I think it is a rallying call for more terrorists. We can't fight our way out of the hatred for America. Terrorism is a poor man's way of waging war and they will just strike back. They are willing to die to get us, this will be hard to stop! We need to take a look at foreign policy and what it is that is breeding this hatred besides taking military action. But now that we are there I feel we must do our best to not have it be a failure or pointless. We were told it was because of WMD but none have been found. The war was not sold as liberating people which is what it is now. Why Iraq anyway, other countries sponsor terrorism. Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass? They pay terrorist's family survivors also. Most of the 911 hijackers came from that country. They breed hatred of the west in their schools even! What about Iran and Syria? How many countries should we invade and won't this just cause even more hatred so we will be even more at risk of terrorism? I am not pretending to know the answer but we certainly can't send troops to every country that supports terrorism unless we are all going to sign up and willing to sacrifice our kids.

3) We need to be pals with France and Germany

We don't need to be "pals" with anyone but we do need to work with the rest of the world as terrorism is a global problem. I don't want to pay all the costs in terms of lives and money I want others to help. Bush Senior built a coalition when we kicked Iraq out of Kuwait thus other countries shouldered some of the burden of this. I supported and voted for his reelection.

4) Morals should not be a part of governing the country

Of course they should be. But my moral values include much more than the ones talked about in the campaign. What about helping the less fortunate, making sure Americans have access to health care (but this is a tough one to solve because I don't really think the government should take this over), leaving a clean environment for our children and most of all leaving them opportunity and not a huge debt. What should we do about Social Security and other expensive programs? I consider a lot of the pork spending immoral! While we all have different opinions on HOW to solve these problems I think we can all agree we WANT to solve them. The gay marriage and stem cell issues have their roots in religious morals. There is disagreement over these. I do not think we should amend the US Constitution over gay marriage. This is too important of a document to amend without good reason. Leave it to the states. If gay people want to get married they can suffer through it just like us heterosexuals!! They might regret this right when they suffer through their divorces! (this is a joke I actually have a great spouse!) Looks like California will go ahead with stem cell research.

5) Standing up for freedom militarily is never justified unless we have France and Germany on our side.

What do you mean by "standing up for freedom militarily"? Do you mean it is our obligation to send our children and shed our blood to free people in other countries? How did a small country like Iraq even threaten our "freedom"? No one could ever take away our freedom no matter how much they attack us because WE want it! The terrorists can attack us all they want but we will never take our freedom unless we let them by being paralyzed with fear! Let's hope the Iraqi people want freedom that badly also so that our actions in Iraq will not be in vain! If you are talking about using our military to protect our SECURITY than of course we can do that without the permission of other countries but I would still prefer if at all possible to cooperate with the world so we don't have to pay the entire cost.

I think it is perfectly fair that many of us will disagree on these issues after all that is why I love America, I can have an opinion even if it is right or wrong. And who know my opinions could be wrong because that is all they are, my opinions. I try to listen to what others think and grow if possible. I think what was disturbing about the last election is all the name calling on both sides. I think we can agree to disagree without getting nasty.

Bush is the president now and he says he wants to reach out to democrats. I am willing to give him that chance even if I disagree with some of his former policies. I really think what the democrats lacked is a good candidate that can connect with the people. I knew from the start Kerry could never connect with the heartland. I hope the democrats have learned and can choose wiser next time. However if McCain were to run in 2008 I could seriously consider voting for him. I really prefer a moderate whether it be a democrat or republican. Wouldn't it be great if we could have two good candidates in 2008 to choose from?

 

On that we can agree.

Leviticus 20:13 states “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" Does that seem ambiguous or something that can even be remotely considered out of context?

This is a great thread, religion and politics combined. Nothing bad can come from this now can it.

 

Frankly, this is a big waste of time. One side's sanctimonious drivel isn't going to trump the same thing from the other side...and no mater how much you post, regardless of which side you're on, you're not going to change the minds of people on the other side. The election is over, agree to disagree and get on with life, regardless of who you voted for...

 

When I was going to high school, I had to ride the bus with a Jehovah's witness. This guy tried to convert me every day and told me every day I was going to hell. Never mind that I told him that if he truly believed only 14400 people will go to heaven then it stands to reason Heaven must be full by now but that is besides the point.

I have a right not to be subjected to wierdos, cultists, other peoples religion if I don't want to. Unfortunately, alot of religions base their faith on expansion. You must convert the Heathens!!! This lead to wars, death, suffering over what? Which book that was written a thousand years ago was the correct one all the while ignoring that if they truly read the book they would see how wrong the actually are.

You want to express your religion. Go help someone. Do something good. And do it without trying to convert the people you are helping. Cause if you don't it's just tit for tat. I helped you ergo you must convert. And that's not what Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, was about.

 

That's from a book that has been rewritten hundreds of times by hundreds of people over thousands of years. I'm sure it's very apt and exactly what the author intended. The Bible is a book written by men who used it to control the dumb populace.

 

Just wanted to give my opinion on the gay marriage issue. There is a separation of church and state and must be as freedom of religion is important in our country. If you take religeous opinions out of the issue, marriage becomes a leagle contract between adults. Because it's unfair to say these two adults can enter into a contract, but these two can't, though republicans and dems fought about it blacks and whites as well as asians and whites are now allowed to marry. I assume someday the gays will. And I don't think they want your church to change it's stance or perform a ceremony, it's about the legal rights that married people have.

 

It's pretty ironic how religion is the cause of the majority of the wars on this planet. History shows this.

To me, I think we should stop supporting Israel since they inflame the whole situation, yet we still support them. I think Israel had more UN resolutions against them than Iraq did.

You have to address the root cause of the issue, and stay focused on what that is. Iraq definately is not the cause of terrorism, but ironically it is now a breeding ground for more anti-US hate. This is not good, but apparenly a majority of voters are ignorant enough to beleive that our current administration deserves four more years of putting us deeper in the hole of insularity. You can say "Saddam was a bad bad man, he killed alot of people in his country!". If you recall, the same thing was done to our native americans. I'm not saying this is right, but there are many other countries where many people have died, but we did not go nation-building there...

Hindsight will be 20/20, and I hope republicans will finally see the light... if we're not all dead by then.

Congratulations republicans!!