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President George W. Bush

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by DAD4, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    Arrest them? This is not a law enforcement issue. This is a military issue (remember they declared war on us) and the proper way to deal with such a threat is to destroy it. Unless we are willing to face the fact that ensuring the safety of America and other free nations requires not only the elimination (killing them not imprisoning them) of terrorists, but the destruction of regimes and nation states that provide the with safe harbor, then we will never win the war.
     
  2. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Utah would be a beautiful state if it weren't for all the cultists there.
     
  3. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    I bet you're one of those ****y neocons that says "turn the middle east into a sheet of glass!", aren't you?
     
  4. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    Uh no. I think our approach in Afghanistan is the way to change the face of the middle east. Removing the corrupt, totalitarian regimes from power while finding and eliminating terrorist groups will provide the oppressed populations of the middle eastern countries a chance to establish free governments. Free governments do not harbor and support terrorists.

    However, if the only option we had to ensure the saftey of the US was to "nuke" one of the cities in the mis-east, I would support that action.

    Since everyone seems to be so good at criticizing the policy of the US as it relates to the war on terrorism, what exactly are your suggestions as to how we can guarantee the safety of America?
     
  5. gammonbabe

    gammonbabe New Member

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    And that is where your are wrong. Terrorism is nothing that is done by a nation, it is a crime. It should be treated as such. There are nations that have more terrorists then others, and nations that suffer from more terrorists then others.

    In the 1970s there were many many terrorists in Germany. Germans. It was treated as a crime. They were arrested, put to jail, and that's where they died .. in solitary confinement. Germany did not attack Syria for allowing them to train there, they did not attack any nation that supported the Red Army Faction and gave them weapons. They arrested the bastards and the legal system took care of them.

    Terrorism that kills one person is the same kind of terrorism that kills 3000. It is a crime and it needs to be seen as a crime. The war on terrorism is a joke, it will never end. And who defines what a terrorist is? The insurgents in Iraq? Are they terrorists? They are fighting against the people that occupy their country, with the only weapons that they have. Just like the french resistance fought against the Nazis with the weapons that they had. What is YOUR definition of a terrorist?

    Marianne
     
  6. neilz

    neilz New Member

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    vweisenberg ...

    I respect your wife's service, and was making a rhetorical question.

    Having served 23 years on Active Duty, I tend to look at people ready to send our armed forces to war, with some skepticism.

    However, my point in the post is that unless we increase the size of the military there won't be enough troops to cover the areas we're currently fighting in, let alone add additional areas. We have a fighting force that is ready to follow orders, but we are not increasing the available forces. National Guardsmen and Reserves are not going to make up for the lack of actual active divisions.



    About some officers disagreeing with Shinseki, these officers did not review the plan for Iraq created by Gen Zinni when he was CmdrCENTCOM. This plan included a force of 200,000 to invade and pacify, and was not based on faulty information given by our pet Iraqi exiles.

    I was all for the invasion of Afghanistan, however, we did not finish the job completely. That is the failure of this administration. One of the mistakes that Pres Bush will not own up to. Bin Laden is still loose, perhaps a paper tiger, perhaps not.



    Neil Z.
    Resident since 1999
     
  7. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    First off. If we treat terrorist and terrorism simply as a crime, then our only option is to arrest the terrorists after they have commited an act. How exactly do we prevent an attack.

    Second, there is a distinct difference between countries in which terrorists live and operate (pretty much every country) and those who are willingly complicit in the support, training, and protection of terrorists (Syria, Iran, Chechnya, etc..) So you are wrong. There are nations who are part and parcel of the global terror picture.

    Third. I agree the war against muderous fanatical thugs who pratice terrorism will never truly end, but if we destroy the regimes that provide them with material support and safe haven, it will make it extremely hard for them to operate. I think society pretty well understands what the definiton of a terrorist is and the "insurgents" in Iraq are terrorists. Fighting against the poeple that occupy their country. Bull***t. Many of the so called "insurgents" are foreign fighters from Syria, Iran, Pakistan, etc.. and how exactly is kidnapping and executing 40+ Iraqi guards on their way home for leave part of the "resistance".

    How do I defined terrorist? Those who would use premeditated, politically motivated violence against noncombatant targets, violence that is usually intended to influence an audience.

    Am I reading you correctly? You are comparing the American soldiers to the Nazi occupiers of Fracnce?
     
  8. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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    Neil,

    First, let me thank you for your service. If you don't mind me asking in which branch did you serve?

    Coming from a military family (both grandfathers were chief petty officers and dad was a petty officer) I understand the sacrifices made by the men and women in our armed forces. I too share a natual reluctance to send our troops into harms way. However, there comes a time and place when the use of military force is the only and best option. To me Iraq presented just such a case.

    I would have to argue whether we need to increase the size of the military to adress the current and future conflicts. Part of the problem in Iraq today (and it was the problem with the Zinni plan, and the troop projections used by Shinseki) is that the Army is always fighting the last war. What was really needed in Iraq is smaller, highly trained, highly mobile, and rapidly deployed units. The success of the Stryker brigades demonstrated that with the right equipment and training, you can accomplish more faster with less troops.

    I know a couple of the special forces guys that were part of the hunt for Bin Laden and talked to 2 of them fairly regularly. Their story does not match what we have been hearing in the media. Yes we did use locals in the recon or Tora Bora, but we had to since they were the only one who knew the locations of the caves and tunnels. Some of the SF guys believe that Osama had already crossed over into Pakistan before the operations in Tora Bora began.

    Did we get the post-major combat planning in Iraq wrong? To a certain extent yes. We overestimated the quality of the Iraqi infrastructure. No one anticpiated that the "war" would end so quickly and that the Iraqi army regulars and Republican guard would disband and then join with foreign fighters to create an "insurgency".

    The problem with the President admitting to a mistake in either Iraq or Afghanistan, is that the press was not genuinely asking the question but was trying to set up a trap.
     
  9. gammonbabe

    gammonbabe New Member

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  10. Wick

    Wick New Member

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    Please. How can you compare our involvement in Iraq with the Nazis? Crap like that is why John Kerry lost this election. More people would have voted for John Kerry (possibly, including myself) if Michael Moore and George Soros were locked in a closet. The left fringe brought down John Kerry this election. George Bush was ripe for defeat, but the ultra-liberal mindset was too prominent in Kerry's campaign.
     
  11. gammonbabe

    gammonbabe New Member

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    The elections are over. I won't convince anyone that America has suffered a defeat, bush supporters won't convince me and others that feel like me that four more years of him will be good for this country.

    History will tell. Our children and grandchildren will judge. And there is a lot of work ahead. This country is bigger than one man, and when all is said and done, we fix what was broken and hopefully we can go back to be the great nation that I still believe in.

    But for now it's over, and I had my say and did my part in the election.

    Marianne
     
  12. veronicasmommi

    veronicasmommi New Member

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    Well Said.
     
  13. vweisenburg

    vweisenburg New Member

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  14. gammonbabe

    gammonbabe New Member

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    And then go to church and be christian. Right.
     
  15. MD_boy

    MD_boy New Member

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    Looking at the polls you will see the "below average intelligence" argument does not wash.
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
    Kerry had the post grad vote yes but he also had the high school drop out vote. So much for the low intelligence folks voting for Bush.
    The demographic of high school grad and college grad went to Bush.
    The main reason the dems lost this one was because they were more against Bush than for Kerry. They selected Kerry not because they felt he was a strong leader and good for the country. They selected him solely on the fact that he had the best chance of defeating Bush. If the Democrats had put more effort into promoting Kerry instead of pushing the ABB (anybody but Bush) agenda the results would have been very different.
    The race was close indicating people in general aren't overjoyed with the way Bush is running things but when unemployment, interest rates and inflation are low and the economy is relatively strong people tend to stick with the status quo unless the opposition can present a strong candidate whom people can warm up to and rally behind. Frankly John Kerry is not that type of person.
     
  16. Pats_fan

    Pats_fan Former Resident

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    Well said. From page 1:
     
  17. greggbroadlands

    greggbroadlands New Member

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    Maybe it's just me and I'm the minority, but your ideas to kill and attack make your views pretty twisted.

    When will the new draft start?
     
  18. gammonbabe

    gammonbabe New Member

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    It is called sarcasm. Plain math. A funny.
     
  19. brim

    brim Member

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    Just because someone has graduated high school and college doesn't mean they're not a jaded, uninformed idiot. Surely reading some of the threads here would have taught you that.
     
  20. Mearen

    Mearen New Member

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    Humanitarian aid doesnt start or stop with blankets and food. It's our job as human beings to protect and liberate. It is not ok for dictators to kill millions of people and the rest of us stand idly by. Human life and rights arent bound by lines on a map.

    Palestine and Arafat. Terrorism is something that is most definately done by a nation.
     

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