Wireless Internet with VeroLan in the Broadlands

hornerjo · Oct 25, 2003

I'm getting the exact same - or was an hour ago. I've run several speeds tests now, and cant get any of them to complete the upload test. Very odd that I can surf the web but not upload anything.

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Dwarflord · Oct 25, 2003

Ive been having upload problems for awhile. Khalil came over this week because it was affecting my server. We ascertained the problem was not on Verolan via a series of tests. However, I do suspect that the problem is between verolan and Atlantech and the way that load balancing is working across the circuits. I can ping all day w/no problems now, but when I put a load on the circuit, I feel the pain. You guys still having this today? Or is it overwith?

DwArFlOrD

hornerjo · Oct 26, 2003

Yeah, its still slow this morning (Sunday, 9:30am). I'm getting 12K/sec on uploads. Better than yesterday, but still not normal.

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dworth · Oct 26, 2003

I was not around this weekend, but looked at my log files. I did see high packet loss till about 11 pm Sat evening. Sun. morning around 10 AM, I did see higher than normal packet loss. They were not as bad as Sat evening. Things seem back to normal now.

Dutchml · Oct 26, 2003

Everything seems back to normal here:

2003-10-26 20:11:43 EST: 711 / 223
Your download speed : 711792 bps, or 711 kbps.
A 86.8 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 223015 bps, or 223 kbps.

hornerjo · Oct 26, 2003

Yep, ditto.

2003-10-26 21:40:26 EST: 510 / 244
Your download speed : 510942 bps, or 510 kbps.
A 62.3 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 244274 bps, or 244 kbps.

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Dutchml · Oct 28, 2003

Well, looks like we (I) might be having some problems again:

2003-10-28 18:07:51 EST: 539 / 22
Your download speed : 539404 bps, or 539 kbps.
A 65.8 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 22407 bps, or 22 kbps.

hornerjo · Oct 28, 2003

Not just you, same here.

2003-10-28 20:45:16 EST: 639 / 48
Your download speed : 639540 bps, or 639 kbps.
A 78 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 48768 bps, or 48 kbps.
Your upstream result was very slow! .. not good

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hornerjo · Oct 28, 2003

I called Khalil at 9. He checked into it and called me back at about 9:30. Evidently the problem was that someone had maximized their upload (same problem that we have had several times before now). Khalil asked that whenever we see this happen to give him a call. Hopefuly he can fix this soon.

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Got Broadband?

dworth · Oct 30, 2003

Anyone having problems now? I have seemed to loose conectivity starting around 9 tonight and it is still out. Had to use modem to get online.

hornerjo · Oct 31, 2003

I was online last night at that time without problems.

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hornerjo · Nov 1, 2003

Saturday night, got lagged out several times playing online games (DAOC). Did a test at about 11 after insane lag, upload is dead again for me. Pings are ok tho, 25ms to Yahoo and no loss. Anyone else?

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Got Broadband?

dworth · Nov 2, 2003

Just checked my logs and I did see high packet loss from about 10:30 till 11:30. Everything is fine now. What online game are you playing? Any good?

hornerjo · Nov 2, 2003

Dark Age of Camelot. I bought the new expansion to play with some friends online. It's pretty good if you like MMORPGs. Link is back to normal this morning.

2003-11-02 08:43:37 EST: 702 / 246
Your download speed : 702697 bps, or 702 kbps.
A 85.7 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 246548 bps, or 246 kbps.

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mkeister · Nov 4, 2003

I'm experiencing significant upload degradation this morning. I haven't had too much to complain about lately until this because I'm just on the humble 384/128 plan anyway. But I DO need that 128 upstream to do my work over vpn. Is this latest problem due to over-selling? What does it mean in an earlier post when someone said they "maxed out" on their upload? Does the Verolan service go into a restricted mode when certain threshold(s) of bandwidth use are exceeded in order to protect itself?

Question for those techheads who might know:

Why do most providers offer less upload bandwidth than download? Also, less upload than download appears to be a physical reality even for those ISP's who claim to offer fully open bi-directional service such as OpenBand (at least that's what I seem to remember them claiming when I was prospecting Southern Walk). I've noted complaints from some OpenBand users about upload speed in particular. Just curious...

MTK

Dwarflord · Nov 5, 2003

quote:Originally posted by mkeister

I'm experiencing significant upload degradation this morning. I haven't had too much to complain about lately until this because I'm just on the humble 384/128 plan anyway. But I DO need that 128 upstream to do my work over vpn. Is this latest problem due to over-selling?
I do not think that it is. The reason I do not think so is that if the network was overutilized/oversubscribed, most everyone else would feel the pinch. We would also notice the problem more so on the download side than the upload side as well.

What does it mean in an earlier post when someone said they "maxed out" on their upload?
Verolan's network, based on my findings/results, show that within the network we all have 1024/1024 speeds. But once we hit a specfic node device, the one that limits our upload and download speeds, then that is where our service is limited (i.e. 384/128). That node has to handle and buffer our data to limit a specific user to that amount of bandwidth that they have purchased. If a person is fully utilizing the 1024/1024, it makes it that much more difficult for that "limiting node" to throttle down that persons data usage from 1024/1024 down to their prescribed 384/128. I think that is what the earlier note was referring to because somebody else was using more than their fair share and it was causing some upload problems.
I dont think that that problem should affect others irregardless of what someone else is doing, unless they are using so much it is filling up the "wireless node" - (the portion between the bridge and the tower) to the tower (11 meg), this would affect all others on that wireless node. Its a lot of bandwidth to fill, but I think that is where the problem may lie that you are seeing. I think in the past someone had a virus on their computer and it was affecting everyone on that node because of the bandwidth usage going on due to the virus. Im not a wireless expert and am not certain of the internal network design of Verolan, but from bits and pieces ive heard / and experienced, this is what my take is.

Does the Verolan service go into a restricted mode when certain threshold(s) of bandwidth use are exceeded in order to protect itself?

Question for those techheads who might know:

Why do most providers offer less upload bandwidth than download?
Because it limits customers' server usage. It doesnt prohibit it, but it limits it. Its also a proactive measure to keep a 1024/1024 from potentially being fully utilized 24/7 at 1024/1024, instead a 1024/512 would only be fully utilized at 512/512 for 24/7 (servers max out on the upload bandwidth,not the download bandwidth) and since we are mostly talking about TCP/IP (servers), this frees up the other 512 for other customer downloads (which is what most people do anyway, download, not upload), yet the 1024/512 customer's server is fully utilized.
Summ: If you have 1024/1024 the ISP could lose the entire 1024/1024 24/7, if you have 1024/512 the ISP could lose an entire 512/512 and still have another 512 for other customers to use for downloads (this of course assumes the same amount of data going up as going down, which is close to what you get for a lot of servers). The download data will never surpass the upload data on servers, thus the upload side is limited.

Also, less upload than download appears to be a physical reality even for those ISP's who claim to offer fully open bi-directional service such as OpenBand (at least that's what I seem to remember them claiming when I was prospecting Southern Walk).
All backbone providers offer their customers bi-directional service , i.e. 1536/1536 . Very very rarely is tier 1 or 2 service offered in offset numbers like what "WE" the end users see (1024/512). ATM or some other kind of packet switching would be the only offering I can think of that would even offer offset numbers, and Im not sure there is even a cost savings on that if its offered. I used to work for Sprint where I helped design and maintain our dedicated IP backbone and we never offered an offset service like 1024/512 or whatever. It was always fully bi-directional. If there are upload limitations, 9/10 it is limited by your provider, not the backbone provider. There are no physical limitations to being able to offer symmetrical service by tier 1 or 2 providers that I am aware of.
I've noted complaints from some OpenBand users about upload speed in particular. Just curious...

MTK
Click to expand...

I hope this helps a bit. Isnt this great stuff.....

DwArFlOrD

mkeister · Nov 6, 2003

Thanks Dwarflord, that does help me understand the situation a LOT better.

It seems that any one of us has the potential to drag down everyone else experience on this network. Of course not intentionally, but we should all be mindful of what's running on our boxes, especially 24/7 servers. D**m viruses cause so much headache for so many

MTK

Dwarflord · Nov 7, 2003

This is true, but is also applicable to any other type of "shared" service. Unless you have your own T1 or fract. T1, you're at the mercy of the network designers of your provider, of course you also pay a lot less.... ....its all economies of scale.
As far as verolan goes, I have never had a problem w/service, adelphia....LOL ....thats a different story. Im just glad we dont have openband. Im afraid I would have "flipped my raspberry" by now, based on what those folks over there are going through. So as long as Verolan provides a quality product I dont think Ill have a problem with them.
Outside of Khalil knowing and telling us about their wireless network, I think S2000 knows a lot about wireless networks too and he may be able to give us more details on how it all works, again, my take was based on what little info. I had, but I think its fairly accurate.
Are you still having upload problems?

DwArFlOrD

hornerjo · Nov 16, 2003

Anyone else have a problem with the link (slow to no upload again) today (Sunday 16th) from around 10-1? I called Khalil, he looked into it. Said it was on my end and to reboot my router, I had already done that. Anyhow, after he called my connection was magically fixed - I hadn't done a thing. Just curious if anyone else had a problem around this time.

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Dwarflord · Nov 16, 2003

yes ive been having horrible troubles today. Im getting a latency of over 400 ms to the fiTraceRoute - Sunday, November 16, 2003 14:56:59
Generated by CyberKit Version 2.5
Copyright © 1996-2000 by Luc Neijens

Address: www.yahoo.com
Number of Packets: 1
Packet size: 64
Trace Hop 1 through 15
Timeout: 5
Resolve Addresses: Yes
Don't Fragment: No

#1 Unavailable (10.0.0.1): TTL Exceeded, ttl=127, 0 ms
#2 wirelessquests.net (207.188.238.17): TTL Exceeded, ttl=254, 411 ms
#3 35.e0bccf.client.atlantech.net (207.188.224.53): TTL Exceeded, ttl=252, 430 ms
#4 main01-ss-vl2.ss.atlantech.net (207.188.209.2): TTL Exceeded, ttl=252, 391 ms
#5 core01-ss-po1.ss.atlantech.net (207.188.210.66): TTL Exceeded, ttl=251, 320 ms
#6 edge01-ash-ge-0-1-0.ash.atlantech.net (207.188.210.2): TTL Exceeded, ttl=249, 331 ms
#7 exchange-cust1.ash.equinix.net (206.223.115.16): TTL Exceeded, ttl=249, 331 ms

Statistics: Out 8, in 7, loss 12%, times (min/avg/max) 320/316/430 ms
rst hop. Im calling him right now. Prior to that I was getting intermittent packet loss, but OK. Now its unuseable.

DwArFlOrD

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