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HOA considering restrictions on home-based businesses? (merged)

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by frostsh, May 6, 2008.

  1. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

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    You are a real character.. If I hear one more thing about "telecommunicating".. my goodness.. And its killing you that I wont post this "language of restriction" isnt it...
    And even if there was any or even it I wanted to.. What do you want to do about it.. Why do you need to know that so bad... What we are requesting would not bother your TELECOMMUNICATING...
    And why does it matter how many different FAKE screen names a person has,, Thir opinion is still their opinion.. Why do you need to know SO MUCH ABOUT EVERYTHING...
     
  2. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    Let's just put this issue to bed then. To do that, the people who want new restrictions should post the language that they want the HOA to adopt. That way, everyone in the the community can review it and make up their own minds.

    The power to make this issue go away rests with Mrs Smith and the others that are seeking new rules for the entire community. So, I ask again, why have they spent so much time going after a neighbor but can't be bothered to take a few minutes to come up with wording of the restriction they want to impose on the entire community?
     
  3. hornerjo

    hornerjo Senior Member

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    You're not answering my question. Its a yes/no answer.
     
  4. GeauxTigers

    GeauxTigers Member

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    Mrs Smith, meet Gryphon! He's been a bit quiet in recent months but his games are nothing new to the forums. Your best bet is to just ignore the posts as I assure you anything else becomes more frustrating that it's worth.
     
  5. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    Actually, having two ids or accounts is against the rules of the forum. I just went to the rules thread and checked. It says, "Only one account per person is allowed." The rules also say, "No Sock Puppet Accounts." It then explains that Sock Puppeting is "the act of creating a fake online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company."
     
  6. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    You are not asking a simple yes/no question. I bring it up, because as Reagan said, "Trust but verify." I am willing to trust that it will not affect telecommuting or the issues that thepea2001 and others have asked about. However, I want to be able to verify it. Why not just post the proposed restriction and settle this matter!?!
     
  7. GeauxTigers

    GeauxTigers Member

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    Gryphon, did you happen get to rule 12?

     
  8. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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  9. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild New Member

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    If the HOA were to place a ban on all home businesses, then telecommuting and businesses that do no produce traffic in the neighborhoods will also be affected. No, I don't think the HOA will knock on my door, but if the rules are changed then you would be in violation of the HOA rules and subject to their restrictions and penalties. Correct?
     
  10. GeauxTigers

    GeauxTigers Member

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    Can you not see the difference between a simple joke and baiting? I'll just assume no here since I don't expect you to answer as you rarely do. Your posts are clearly looking for a response to incite an argument. My two posts were simple attempts at making a funny. Perhaps you could read a violation of "11. No Personal attacks" in one of my posts if you can't see beyond the joking nature and I'll follow that up with an apology to Lee if he was in any way offended.
     
  11. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    This is exactly the type of unintended consequence that could arise from a ban on people who work from home. I am glad that you are raising this point.
     
  12. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Do you need the Cliff Notes Version?
    There are no proposed restrictions on the table
    - The Bakers have tried a proposal to their neighbors which those neighbors rejected
    - Some residents have tried a proposal to the Bakers which was rejected by the Bakers (and other residents involved did not support either)
    - Neither of the above involved the HOA
    Mrs Smith (and others) want the HOA to step into the operation of this daycare operation based on resident complaints
    The HOA currently allows such daycares if they are county licensed - The Bakers were not, but are in progress or are now (I'm not sure if thats complete)
    - Both sides spoke in front of the last board meeting to voice their support and or complaints about this particular business

    Beyond that there is no proposal. This has been said repeatedly.

    The rest of us are talking about if such situations should involve the HOA and if the community thinks additional restrictions beyond the current rules are a good idea or not.

    While this daycare issue was at the last meeting - this is not the only case that has been discussed with the HOA. There are other activities in the community that are causing complaints as well. Not saying they are all should be 'shutdown' - just highlighting that this is not a one-off problem.

    The rest is just a discussion - one that has moved beyond your ridiculous claims to everyone but yourself.

    I personally believe there is merit to looking into the topic. The tough part is where one can place rules that are not cumbersome up front, but are enforceable later. For instance, it's hard to take away the ability to do something, if you did not explicitly grant it in the first place. That means you have to establish standards up front, which is not really a great thing to do when the situation is based on variables, not black and white definitions.

    For instance, you don't want to have an approval process for every type of activity - but you want to have a recourse if that activity gets out of hand. That is the complex part. How to provide a checkpoint for 'activities' vs businesses.

    The pure business side of the equation I think is much simpler to define what needs approval or not. For instance, a definition could include if the business includes having clients visiting an office or facility in the home. Another may include having clients park or leave their vehicles at the location for longer then a set duration.

    Once you scope what needs approval - you have an opportunity to grant permission, and there is where you define your rules and guidelines. I outlined some of my ideas on what guidelines should encompass way back in post 97 and have reitereated parts of that repeatedly.

    I believe the criteria of interest to review when approving such operations be that
    - the activity does not break any existing laws or zoning ordinances
    - the area of interest is how the business affects the surrounding area in terms of people traffic, vehicle traffic, noise, and any visible exterior changes

    How you measure the people and vehicle traffic stuff (IMO) can not be hard #s that apply universally. A house on a pipestem can not handle the same number of cars as the house on the corner of ridgeway.

    These must be reviews based on guidelines of what would be excessive given the location and the location's ability to handle such loads. Criteria to review would include volume of trips, the distribution of those trips, and the frequency of that volume over a time period. These criteria combined with reviewing the location would be combined to access the impact of that additional traffic the business would bring to the area. Expectations would be set in what an operation would bring and if those are abused and complaints ensue - then there is a basis for action.

    One of the problems with the current situation is people are asking for action when there is no basis for the HOA to do so. That is further muddied by the issue that the operation was NOT in compliance with HOA rules when they began, but (from what they have said) are working to be in compliance with existing HOA rules.

    gryphon - your points are futile when you try to argue the whole system is invalid based on arguing it would eliminate your scenario when the metrics aren't even defined. Especially considering your scenario is so far off from the target applicability of any such rules. Continuing to beat that pointless drum really just devalues any constructive input you could have.
     
  13. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    I can see the difference, but one man's joke is another man's baiting.

    Now that we know that the Celebrate Calm and Silence Dogood99 are the same person (one account responded to something that was directed at the other account), I have to wonder how many other accounts this person is using. Is that just a simple joke or baiting?
     
  14. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    Thanks for the serious and in-depth response. I agree that there is merit in looking into any credible issue that a homeowner may bring to the HOA's attention. In fact, I am glad that Mrs Smith felt that she could approach the HOA about this issue. By looking into, the HOA is being responsive to a homeowner's concerns.

    That being said, Mrs Smith and some others are asking the HOA for steps to be taken to address their concern. That could involve new restrictions that would apply to the ENTIRE community. The point of my posts has been to raise the concern that any possible new restrictions could have unintended consequences. To make sure that does not happen, I have asked the people who want new restrictions to be put in place to draft up suggested language and post it here. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask someone who wants to put a new rule in place to let people know what that rule is.

    If the HOA cannot take any action, where does this leave this matter?
     
  15. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    True, but in this case several members of the household have separate accounts - not just one person with several accounts. That's fair enough. Sometimes they post without logging out and back in under a different name, that's all. You and your spouse could do the same. I don't think it was deliberate falseness. It could lead to arguments at home, though: "Dude! Don't post that under *my* name - I sound like a dork!" :p
     
  16. gryphon

    gryphon Banned User

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    We have five users of age in our house. Does that mean we can all sign up for different accounts? I had read the rules differently, so I appreciate any clarification.

    Also, this discussion has gotten us a little off topic of the thread, so I understand if the admins want to move the rules-related discussions to a more appropriate thread.
     
  17. redon1

    redon1 aka Aphioni

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    keeping 5 gryphons from posting under separate accts... now THAT would be a situational HOA ban that i would support! :)

    almost kidding gryph...
     
  18. Forum Administrator

    Forum Administrator Member Forum Staff

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    That is a task you can leave to us. We monitor and address such issues directly between the administrators and the users in question.

    These accounts are nothing new to us and have been addressed long ago.

    Thank You
     
  19. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Yes - we heard you and the topics you have brought up many have addressed. Yet - you continue to repeat them as if they are issues. Considering you have several board members who also telecommute or have businesses - I think your concern is without merit. Let it go already.

    And when people do (like in my post) you just ignore it. What discussion do you want to have if you just ignore the answers given? Be constructive or just stay out.

    I didn't say nothing can be done by the HOA. I stated my opinion on the matter. I'm not the HOA board. I think there is serious misunderstanding of what some people think the 'result' can or would be under current circumstances.
     
  20. GeauxTigers

    GeauxTigers Member

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    Do you mean kind of like what you are doing right now?
     

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