Broadlands Hospital

Thunder, just to be clear, (and I think I speak for T8erman on this), we did not say and did not mean to imply that what you had done was "selfish." And I think we all agree that what you have done for others very much fits our own philosophy: individuals are supposed to sacrifice for the benefit of others. You have done that and should be commended for that. Honorable, worthy of respect. And in the end, your life has more meaning because of it.

What we are commenting on is the tendency for people to just throw around other people's money, or dictate what companies should do. For example, a previous forum poster known for even longer posts than mine used to excoriate BRMC for moving to Broadlands just to make money. But when asked whether he would volunteer his time or move to poor areas of DC to work with clients who didn't have much money...there was silence.

So, yes, it's very admirable what you have done. But that was your choice and those close to you that you cared about benefited from your sacrifice. All we are saying is that's different from EXPECTING a hospital or business--which is really "owned" by a group of individuals just like you and me--to locate where there won't be as much demand because "some things are more important than money."

Okay, I think we've beat this horse to death. You live a rich, rewarding life because it's characterized by sacrifice and giving. That is a reward in itself, eh? Have a great day, Thunder!

 

Silence,
OK I agree with you. I just wish I could throw around someone else's money. Let me see your ATM card!

Enjoy!

 

Thunderchild, you are a very caring and compassionate person. And I do agree that there are some thing more important than money. I think we are about even for ER visits. One summer I asked if we got a discount for multiple visits in a month or at least frequent flyer miles. lol

Altho, a hospital on Rt 50 sounds like a great idea, it can't and won't happen for at least 10 years. Not because of BRMC or Inova, but because the state decides if there is a need in that area. In this case, the state has decided there is a need in this area of the county. If this hospital isn't built, it doesn't mean they can build a hospital in it's place on Rt 50. So really, BRMC has no relavence to the "Rt 50 hospital"
I think many people are confused. They are two different issues that have no impact on each other.

 

MJ,
I got to know the ER Doctor pretty well. She recognizes me and asked about the broken bones!

Yes, I know the Rt 50 thing won't happen right away. Like I said I am not pro/against the Hospital just voicing an opinon for others in th County who have none. With the population estimates for the future I would love to see a hospital built in the Broadlands, I just wish the folks out west could have one too! Or I should say first and then here. Wishful thinking. Hey, I hope we don't run into each other at the ER.

Take care.

 

Yes, you can speak for me as you do it very well!

And Thunder, my wife and I have continue to make similar choices as yours for the benefit of our family also. And honestly, some of them were very easy to make with regards to lifestyle choices.

 

Just run for Congress--then your whole job is spending other people's money and getting credit for being compassionate while doing so! It's a dream job.

Keep up the great work--you're an excellent role model. See ya!

 

Silence,

Wow! Thank you for the compliment. I wish they'd employ me. I could use the money.http://www.broadlandshoa.org/hoaforum/images/smilies/import2/happygrin.gif

I seems that you all have been busy since I last logged on. I've been impressed with all of the kind, selfless acts that have been recorded over the last week or so. Thank you, everybody, for caring enough to volunteer, care for people, and generally be good Americans. The general attitude on this forum is completely different from when I first joined you.

That being said, I wanted to share a conversation I recently had with my husband. I was commenting on the hospital to him, and he asked me, "Don't people realize how positively a hospital affects a community and their property values?" I just looked at him, then he added that it would draw medical specialists and other supporting structures, and that property values generally increase near hospitals and fire stations. He explained that people are drawn to areas with these facilities located close by (the prospect of BRMC was a draw factor when we moved to Broadlands in 2004). At some point, I plan to spend some time verifying this with solid data, but I do believe him as he is a small business consultant and is very educated in this area.

I also would like to see some kind of hospital in points west (as I was hurt in Middleburg and spent 40 minutes in an ambulance with no pain killers), but after talking to a county planner, I've been told that there just isn't the population to support it. As I'm sure it's been stated many times on this site, both INOVA and HCA own property off of rte.50 and plan to build either a hospital or a trauma center to support the county hospitals in the future. That's great, and I'm all for it. The problem is that we desperately need more hospital beds now. You don't want to find out the hard way (like me) that our county is pitifully lacking in admission space. Also, there is no way around the fact that this area is in the center of the population and that the greatest percentage of emergency calls come from this area and the surrounding areas, not from Middleburg, Purcellville, etc. It would be great if they could put a real trauma center out there where they could stabilize people, then send them to Lansdowne or BRMC (like they do at Cornwall).

I understand that no ER experience is great. I was treated right away because of the severity of my injuries, but waited in the hallway at Cornwall for 6 hours (within sight of everybody and laying on the ambulance back board for 3 of the hours before the doctor finally gave up on my speedy transfer) before they brought me to Lansdowne to wait for another 5 hours for a bed on the orthopedic surgery floor to open up. All in all, I had a good experience at INOVA (6 days with mostly kind nurses). I very much appreciate their services, and I'm currently still using them. I cannot complain. The only problem is that we really need more hospitals/beds to accommodate our growing population.

I won't bother sharing all of my ER/hospital visits as it takes too much time. None are perfect.

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to enlighten me as to why they really think BRMC is a bad idea. Anyone interested?

 

While I appreciate the gentle nature of your posts, just being nice doesn't make you right.
1. Most people would rather not live right next door to a busy hospital, fire department, or police department. Two miles away is great though!
2. To assume that the doctors will live in the Broadlands is a huge leap. While most of us are doing well financially, the vast majority of doctors will continue to live in Great Falls and Middleburg as they do now. I guarantee you that there are not massive numbers of doctors living in the townhomes around Reston or Fairfax Hospital. I really can guarantee that NO doctors live in the neighborhood surrounding Johns Hopkins in Baltimore.

As to "why people don't want the hospital", all I can recommend is that you take the time that you had set aside to read "War & Peace" and dig through this thread. I am certain that you will find plenty of reasons, and some of them may actually be valid.

I am not saying putting a prison, casino, night club or mall is the same thing as a hospital, but the same arguments could be made for putting these businesses in our neighborhood. Just because it will (theoretically) stimulate our economy is not reason enough to want a business to abut our neighbors properties.

 

ok so no casino, nightclub, prison or mall. I guess my question to that would be what in your opinion would be good to put on this site? At close to 60 acres you can put over 1,000,000 sq feet of office space? Would that be a better option? It is not going to be trees, property is just too valuable here. I have heard people say a hospital is not right for the site. So would someone please let me know what is right for that site?

Staci

 

Thank you for your comment about my kindness. I very much appreciate it.

As to you comment, I fully understand that people do not want a business right next to their properties; however, anybody who bought a house backing to Broadlands Boulevard was keenly aware that the commercial properties across the street were eventually going to be built and occupied. If that was a problem, then they could have picked a different lot or home. The proposed commercial space and future development of Broadlands Boulevard was zoned and advertised as well as plainly shown on The Broadlands map. Nobody could claim that they didn't know it was going to be built up someday.

I also did not mention a police department. That is a completely different matter.

As I stated in an earlier post, if you look at Google maps at all of the hospitals in the DC/Metro area, you will find that they have houses much closer than this proposed hospital. Plus, these people have included a large tree buffer and that acreage for HOA use. After looking at the by-right rendering of what can go in that area, it seems that HCA has made efforts to alleviate the visual impact of the hospital (I believe that you can look at it on the BRMC website as well as the BroadlandsforBRMC website). What you don't seem to be considering is that something is going to be built there, why not have some input while we can? If office buildings go there, we won't get a say as it's already approved and we can do nothing about it.

As for the comment about where doctors will live, I never mentioned that they would choose to move to Broadlands. I was talking about locating offices nearby that would serve us well. Many of us have to go to Fairfax, DC, Bethesda, and Baltimore to get medical care as it is just not available in Loudoun. My point was, if this is one of the top 3 affluent counties in the county, why can't we attract appropriate medical specialists? With more hospital options, I personally believe that it would draw more doctors to our area to work (I don't care where they live and I agree that they would choose those other areas to live).

If you read my original post, you will know that I started posting because I did take the time to read the posts from many months back to present and felt that I wanted to share my current story. Also, it seems that the hospital has done several things to alleviate the concerns of those earlier posts, such as: no helicopter pad, tree buffer, donating almost four acres closest to houses for HOA to use, putting an emergency entrance off of Belmont Ridge,[/I] etc. With that said, it seems like all of the those earlier stated concerns have been addressed except people just not wanting anything to be built there. That's why I asked if someone would enlighten me. I wanted to know if there was something that I am missing.

I will say that I really am not familiar with HCA itself. I did give birth to one of my children at Reston (good experience), though. That's the extent of my familiarity. I really could care less about who owns it as long as the care is good. I just know that we are quite lacking in hospital beds in this county, and I think it's time for us to catch up with the growth. On a side note, I am a big believer in separation of powers as well. I do think that competition is important to receive good services. Otherwise, people and businesses get complacent.

 

I'm sure this has been said before, but let's not forget what could be developed on the land. This is only my understanding, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Currently, it's zoned for by-right office park. In the potential use of the land, we get two options, then. Either we get the hospital (if/when a zoning exception is approved), with its generous buffers (something like 600-foot distance minimum from the buildings to the nearest residential), and a widened Belmont Ridge Road (HCA had to make this concession as part of the approval process).
If HCA is denied permission and they sell off, we get a by-rights-developed office park with little buffer (I think less than 100 feet fromt he buildings to the nearest residential, minimum), completely razed and developed land covered with buildings or parking lots, no widened roads (and the developers won't need any permissions or approvals from county supervisors to build whatever they think would be best use of the land). Think of the office buildings built in Reston/Herndon on the 267 office-building-corridor. It'll probably be much like that.

The issue is NOT -- do we want a hospital, or nothing. The issue IS -- do we want the hospital (and wider roads, larger buffers); or the by-rights office park (no roads widened, no buffers). There really aren't any other options.

Also don't forget all the other areas around Broadlands that are slated for office development: the other side of Wynridge (across from the shopping center) Demott (between Mooreview and Waxpool), and Mooreview between Wynridge and the Greedway.

From my point of view: we don't need MORE office parks in the area, and the hospital plans appear to be very good use of the land.

I know there are other ways to approach the issue, this one is mine at this particular moment in time.

There's more info at the site:
http://www.broadlandsforbrmc.com/broadlands_byright_site_plan.html

(I am not affiliated with that website, but I think it does seem pretty balanced and level-headed in its discussion of the issues.)

 

I think that is right. Although I am guessing that an office park might not have that little a buffer (even if it is legally possible). I would also guess that such a office building project might work somewhat with the neighborhood (as BRMC is) to appease critics. Other than that, your analysis of the site is exactly as I see it. I doubt that if this project is not given the exception that another hospital would take 10-15 years.

 

Really? Where did you learn or read about this piece of data?

 

I was actually told from a county planner that it would take about that long. It all has to do with the state authorizing a Certificate of Public Need (COPN) which BRMC already has. From what this man said, the state will not begin processes until the Broadlands issue is settled one way or the other. Apparently, the Broadlands COPN is a reallocation of beds from an underused hospital in Arlington. In order to put a hospital in any other location (for example, rte.50, where both INOVA and HCA own properties for future trauma centers or hospitals), the company would have to start the process of applying for a new COPN. That process takes about 5 years. After approval, they go through the permitting/approval processes through the county (like what BRMC is doing now) which takes roughly 1 year. Then you have building time, approximately 3 years. So, if everything were to go smoothly, you're looking at 9 years from application to completion. Neither INOVA nor HCA have started that process for their other properties and can't until Broadlands is settled. That is why the planner quoted 10 to 15 years.

FYI, I wouldn't care if they put a hospital off of rte.50 instead, but I just don't want to wait that long. In the last 10 years, we built 20 schools due to population increase, why aren't they keeping up with the health care? It's not like our population is going to diminish over the next 10 years (I think that stats show an increase of over 100,000 people). Why not build both of them? In big cities, there are hospitals a couple of blocks away from each other.

 

And in case anyone wonders why the COPN process can take 5 years....
Virginia COPN process requires a company that desires to build a facility to meet twenty criteria before the state commissioner will grant a certificate of need, and if the entire program doesn't meet all twenty criteria but a portion of the project does, a COPN may be issues just for that portion (meaning a company would have to go back to the drawing board and try again).
http://www.vdh.state.va.us/OLC/COPN/documents/COPN%2020%20considerations.pdf
For HCA to apply for another COPN, they will have to be able to meet all twenty criteria, which means securing blessings of their planning and regulatory agencies; demonstrating a population need; accessibility of public to the facility; necessary infrastructure (mainly roads, geography); established, long-term financial feasibility; probable impact on cost of services to public due to new facility; improvements or innovations in health care delivery; need for and availability of training programs for a variety of specialties because of the facility; and more.
Once applied for, the process of review and granting a COPN takes 6-7 months. During that time, HCA's opponents will be filing "good cause" challenges to the COPN application, hoping to get the Commissioner to deny the application.
Should the COPN process fail for some reason, HCA would have to reapply, thus making the process longer. But the majority of time and effort invested in the COPN process is in the preparation, and that might take a while to research and prepare. Also, since population and infrastructure are requirements, they may need to wait for both to be developed enough to support a COPN application, which could take many months to years as well.

Also, considering how long the BRMC issue has been in the county supervisors' hands, I think one year is a very low estimate for that step... but that may be a special case to Broadlands. What's it been, five years? Hmm... Could have been built by now, if it were approved 5 years ago........ :rolleyes3:

 

You're right. 1 year was a low estimate. I was just repeating what I was told, hence the 9 year outlook with no problems. That's why the man told me 10 to 15 years was more likely.

 

I didnt say that I wouldnt welcome a casino, nightclub, prison or mall. I was just stating the the same arguments for and against the hospital could be used for these facilities.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rogers
... the vast majority of doctors will continue to live in Great Falls and Middleburg as they do now. ...

1. Way to take a small bit of a larger point out of context, as if I presented this as fact.
2. This is anectodal, but I work in an industry where I see several dozen doctors every day. The majority live in McLean and Middleburg, with a couple in Hamilton and Leesburg, and they work at Reston, Fairfax and DC Childrens Hospitals. I know many of my neighbors, and of the hundred or so families that I have been lucky enough to meet, the only physician or dentist is a retired military doctor. (Oddly, there are several lawyers!)

My point was that the positive financial effect of BRMC...
a) is not enough reason to bring it in (or any other business)
b) may not be as significant as expected

 

Not that it matters as it is getting off subject, but one of my doctors actually lives down the street from us (in Broadlands). He even was kind enough to make a house call to us when my husband had prostate cancer surgery last year. But, who cares where they live as long as they practice nearby.

I don't believe most, if any, of the same arguments could be made for a prison, casino, or certain types of nightclubs (others, yes). You could make similar arguments for a mall, though. Once again, you're getting away from the real issue and trying to make it sound dirty. A hospital brings much needed medical care, especially for our children with the partnership of Children's National. Economic development was glossed over as it is not one of the reasons for the hospital, it would be a by-product. This is about more hospital beds in Loudoun soon, not a decade from now.

I will state it again: You do not want to wait until you are in desperate need of these services to find out that you are on the wrong side of this issue. Although I've always thought that it would be a nice idea to have a hospital, I was on the fence about it. With my recent experiences, I am firmly on the side of BRMC and have no problem standing on my soap box.

 

I didn't make a "large point" out of anything. It just seemed like a big leap to me to say a majority of Doctors live in towns that start with an "M". :rolleyes3:

One thing I have not heard a lot about is the increased business traffic that can be expected at the Broadlands shopping center. I imagine Bonefish, OSH, Pizza place, drycleaners, etc are all huge supporters of the pending additional business.

One study I read said that for every hospital job there is a new job created in support services outside of the hospital. I don't have the details to back this up, but it seems logical to me.