Drilling Alaska wildlife and high gas prices

I oppose Congresses vote to support drilling in the Alaska Natural Wildlife Reserve. Congress and the current administration have not done enough to reduce US demand and dependance on foreign oil. I'm doing my part. I own a 31MPG station wagon and a 50MPG hybrid sedan. I bought the hybrid due in part to a $1500 tax credit at the end of 2003. That tax credit has now dropped to only $500. The federal government should provide MORE not less incentives to taxpayers to buy more efficient vehicles.

President Bush has created polices that actually ENCOURAGES the purchase of the MOST fuel INEFFICENT and polluting SUVs for personal and business use. Now his energy policy may potentially spoil the environment of one of the countries most pristene natural resources, the ANWR (remember the Valdez oil spill). He said the oil there will reduce gas prices however, US refineries wont see a drop of oil from the ANWR until 2014. Thats not leadership, nor wisdom, its irresponsible. By simply classifying SUVs as passenger vehicles (which is what most people use them for) instead of trucks, manufacturers would be forced to make more efficient SUV's (like the Ford Escape and Lexus RX400). Less demand = less need. We don't NEED to drill in the ANWR.

 

Doing your part can be any number of things with a combined aggregate energy impact and does not necessarily mean driving a hybrid or econobox. For instance as an example only, I would guess that living in BL and commuting to Rockville in a hybrid is less efficient than owning a Ford SuperDuty and commuting to Dulles or Sterling, yes?

I mean here you have Arianna Huffington in California trying to promote Hybrid cars, but she lives in a 10,000 SF mansion, with what I would guess would be pretty large AC and heating demands. This does not count 2nd, 3rd, homes, personal jets, heated pools, etc

Doing your part really means your total energy impact "footprint", at home with heating and AC, how well insulated your home is, combining local errand trips into one, living close to work, all kinds of things.

Looking solely at what someone chooses to drive is pretty meaningless.

 

I support hybrid fuel exemptions, reclassification of SUVs as passenger vehicles, and other incentives to increase the fuel economy of our vehicles and reduce our dependence on oil (including increasing the use of nuclear power).

But I think we also need to ease up on the Green propaganda like what is posted above. Drilling "may potentially" spoil ANWR? A lot of things "may potentially" cause a lot of harm to ourselves or our environment, but that doesn't stop us from doing it. Has anyone ever heard of a major environmental catastrophe caused simply by drilling oil? The major environmental disasters involving oil have mostly been confined to spills from ships, which is not an issue here. And let's not overstate the potential impact to ANWR -- we are talking about drilling in a portion</u> of about 15% of ANWR. Most of the 15% portion, as well as the rest of ANWR, will remain untouched.

I think the administration's policies on the environment are abysmal. But I also think we could solve a lot of our problems by reducing our dependence on foreign</u> oil, and to do that we should look to look at both reducing demand through conservation and</u> developing domestic energy sources.

 

I've heard the area in ANWR to be drilled is about the size of Dulles airport--not particularly large in my view. Also, back when this issue was first raised a few years ago, I'm pretty sure the "pristine" description turned out to be very inaccurate, to say the least.

As for me, on principle, I have problems with any government manipulation of my income or activities. But if someone wants to buy a hybrid to get a $500 tax break, it doesn't really bother me too much--although I think the ability to use the HOV lanes (while it lasts) is a better rationale. I also think people should be free to buy big old SUV's and trucks if they want. After all, they are clearly safer, given their mass alone.

On a side note, am I the only one who has seen a precipitous drop in the "Bush went to war to steal Iraq's oil" argument? I suppose $2/gallon has that effect.

 

Imagine that... republicans not for the environment...

 

Like all democrats like abortion I suppose. Get real, how much time do you spend on these forums in a totally unnecessary waste of energy? Can you say hypocrite?

 

I heard on WTOP this morning that this drilling would only yield less than one year's worth of oil. Is it really worth it??

 

Hypocritical? Ok, I guess you just don't get it. I'm just saying that there is a track record of republicans being more on the side of loggers/oil companies/etc than protecting the environment. Democratic leaders seem to care more about our environment, and there is a record to prove it.

&gt; On a side note, am I the only one who has seen a precipitous drop in the "Bush went to war
&gt; to steal Iraq's oil" argument? I suppose $2/gallon has that effect.

I don't think people think that we were just going to go over and "steal oil". The main reason we're there is because we're dependent on their hydrocarbons and the administration wants to somehow stabilize the region.

 

For Halliburton it is.

 

That's not accurate. I believe there are estimated to be between 5 and 15 billion barrels of oil in the reserves (so split the difference and say there are 10 billion barrels). The U.S. uses about 10 million barrels of oil a day, of which about half (5 million) comes from foreign sources. Even if we completely ceased getting oil from any other source (both foreign and currently existing domestic sources) and relied solely on the deposits in ANWR, it would last 1000 days, or about 3 years.

But that won't happen. It is estimated that only about 1 million barrels of oil per day could/would be drawn from ANWR, which means that the oil would last for 10,000 days, or about 27 years. Check my stats and math, but I think this is right. (FYI, I got most of my stats from NPR, not exactly known for its conservative reporting. I therefore place much more weight on these stats than I would those of, say, the NRDC.)

You might argue that getting only 1 million barrels per day, when we use 10 million/day, does not make it worth it. I would disagree, considering the minimal impact to the environment, and the fact that by adding that 1 million barrels we reduce our dependence on foreign oil by 20% (5 million per day down to 4 million per day). These are statistically significant reductions.

 

Are you against a stable Middle East? Well if tou are, you are on the wrong side of history. Just where do you think they got the lumber to build your near new luxury home? Where do they get the energy to condition the climate in that home. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and move to a condo? How much space do you really need?

 

Sasha, if I follow your argument, you advocate living as close to your job as possible in order to save gas. Say for example, I work in DC, that would mean living in a Condo or instead of a SFH. Sending my kids to sucky old public schools. But at least I'd be driving my 13MPG Ford Excursion 100's of miles on weekends to shop at the Outlets or mountain biking.

Your assumptions are incorrect. I drive the hybrid to Herndon and the wife drives a european made mid-size station wagon (hardly an enconobox) to the Dulles bus park and ride. Our wagon has more cargo and passenger space than a Chevy Blazer SUV(which by the way has the highest occupancy crash death rate). We do the same weekend kid taxi, Costco, Depot, beach, mountain thing just like the 15MPG SUV's I see in the parking lots, but at 30MPG. I'll note that I'm not trying to tow trailers or RV's and if I were to a V6 SUV would be on my shopping list.

Pat_fan, good facts and a fair retort.

Brooks_5, I dont buy the Mass=Safety argument for owning a truck-based SUV. What IS clear is the greater and higher mass of SUVs = Longer braking distances, less agility, greater rollover risk (at 1/2 the MPG of my wagon). All of which INCREASE your risk of having an accident and being injured. Most truck-based SUVs are not equipped with the safety features in my wagon that are designed to help me avoid or survive an accident. Features like traction control, stability control, side curtain airbags and a lower center of gravity (less likely to roll).

Bottom line is we as Americans are free to make choices about the vehicles we drive. By simply choosing to drive a vehicle that gets 2-3 MPG better (and keeping it tuned, proper tire pressure, and free of unnecessary cargo or weight), we could reduce the nations oil demands by 100's of thousands of barrels a day. If for no other reason than to save yourself some $$ at the pump (I fill the wagon for $25 @ 2/gal and go 400 mi before refilling) Surely isn't conserving a little worth making our country stronger?

 

Too add to your points, US oil imports from the Gulf states represent 23.5% of the 5 million barrels per day imported (or 1.17 million barrels per day). Which means a full production in ANWR would provide the US with nearly the same amount we import from the Mid-East, providing us with the option to sinificantly reduce or eliminate all together our dependence on Gulf oil (at least for a decade or so).

 

I couldn't agree more.
What people fail to realize (or fail to admit) is the fact that hybrids don't and won't make a dent in our energy needs. All they do is give people the warm fuzzys (along with a few tax breaks and access to HOV). Hybrid cars are simply a combination or two very old technologies - internal combustion and lead acid batteries - They still emit exhaust, albeit to a lesser degree, they still require gasoline. What about disposal of the batteries?. Sure they might average 50 mpg but so did the 1993 Geo Metro. The new hybrid trucks get 18 mpg - big deal. Even if every vehicle in this land were a hybrid we would still be using more oil than we were 25 years ago when cars averaged around 15 mpg. Why? because there are simply more people meaning more cars, more homes, larger homes to heat and cool. What about all those electronic devices that we now can't live without? Cell phones, Palm pilots, Laptops, Ipods, etc. You think they just magically recharge themselves? They take energy and it all adds up. Reducing our energy needs is way more complicated than what we drive.

 

Another "lifestyle" issue I forgot to bring up is the way you drive and how it relates to energy impact. Driving your vehicle like a race car will not give you the posted EPA mileage ratings for the car as it was designed. Conversely, careful application of the accelerator with a "look-ahead" driving style that anticipates road conditions up ahead will maximize your mileage.

Some folks around here seem to have some kind of deeply held, intractable need to drive 10 MPH (or more) over the posted speed limits. Some folks stomp on the gas when accelerating from a stop or making a turn. Also, I am continually amazed at many drivers in this area who seem to be racing to get to the next red stoplight or traffic stoppage on Rt. 28

Gentle driving and obeying posted limits can do wonders for energy efficiency, but some tend view this only as it might impact their immediate need to get to where they need to go and to get there NOW, other considerations such as courtesy, safety and energy impact be damned.

 

So true OP_dude. I recall a segment on NPR last year with automobile industry folks that pointed out that the gas and emissions savings of the "hybrids" can easily be achieved with existing combustion engine technology. But those features (trade-offs) are not as marketable as "hybrids".

Back on the original topic: Do pro-ANWR drilling folks think that this will lower gas prices? Lack of true competition due to oil company mergers is playing more of a role in rising gas prices than lack of global supply or OPEC policies.

 

Frankly, I don't care about gas prices. We are one of the luckiest countries in the world, having to pay only $2 a gallon for gas. IMO, let the cost of gas double to $4 a gallon! We would still pay much less for gas than Europeans do. Maybe $4/gallon gas would make people think twice about whether to use mass transit, the kinds of cars they drive, and the other wasteful things they do. Consumer pressure will drive the market towards higher efficiency vehicles/homes/etc.

I don't think the ANWR drilling will have much of an impact on gas prices. What it will do, however, is help ease global pressure for oil. Given India and China's exploding demand, oil shortages are inevitable. And I think they will arrive sooner rather than later. We need to take advantage of as many sources of oil as we can find, while also altering our policies and practices to make ourselves more energy efficient.

 

I don't think drilling in ANWR will reduce gas prices. As Pats_Fan stated, as nations like China and India develop, demand for oil will increase exponentially. The laws of supply and demand will dictate the price. But by finding and utilizing new domestic sources we can add another layer of stability to our economy. It's not the price that hurts our economy, it's the supply. The rising prices over the last two years have had very little impact. Compare that to what happened during the oil embargo's of the 70's when a reduction in available supply sent our economy into a deep recession. The more energy independence we can muster the better off we are. And it shouldn't stop with oil. We also need to be spending more research dollars on alternatives such as hydrogen, wind, solar and yes, nuclear.

 

I agree with pats fan... we are very spoiled with the prices and drive around goliath vehicles because we can afford to.

OPdude, I believe most (if not all) of the Hybrids use nickle metal hydride batteries (NiMH)...and they are able to be fully recycled.

 

based on incomes and inflation, gas is cheaper than it was in the 60' and 70's
I hate buying gas all the time (especially in Winter, brrrrr). I drive a little buzz box and get better gas mileage than the vans and suvs. I just feel better. I used to have a van and I felt like I was dragging my living room around with me, hideous..
I think that might be one reason SUV's and Vans have such bad resale values.