Metro Special Tax District-Vote NO!

I think it's clear they will vote for Metro. I also think it's imperative they find alternate solutions other than taxing a subset of residents.

Some ideas that could help: Ticket tax (they think this is Fed territory and good luck), Repeal the tax cut the whole county got but hasn't yet realized. Apparently this will pay for everything but I don't think they are considering, The special tax districts as you know. I don't think this is a good option for anyone. Even if it didn't affect us, I wouldn't think this is a good idea. Same goes for C & I tax on small biz, it's not what should be done. The developers and the chamber ppl stood up and said how much they want this, so Private equity would be my choice. Developers have tangible benefits, where ours if any, are only on paper. There is much unanswered still, so I'm looking forward to their "outline' on how they intend to fund, pay for and maintain metro and the roads leading to it.

 

Cliff,
You've been around these guys for some time. How can we suggest they look at other options? They've been sent multiple scenarios, probably hundreds, but they keep coming back to the TD. You and I know that ppl west of 15 may use the metro, and many inside the bubble won't use it at all. At $12 per ride (per person) that's pricey for a family going on an outing. So we know the fares won't cover. Why won't they consider asking the developers to pay the $12MM deficit?

 

I think MWAA should issue a small fee on each airline entering or leaving Dulles. $.25 per ticket or something negligible that will add up over time. They can take the burden off the taxpayers.

I just feel as though, given the time restraints, the funding issues will not be well thought out. And the decisions made by this board will impact the residents of this county forever. They need more time to explore the options so decisions aren't made in haste. I would actually be pro-metro if it didn't fall squarely on my shoulders and those of my neighbors to pay for it.

 

MDCRIM is referring to the special tax district. The metro is a montrous debt for the county that we will subsidize, just don't want to go it alone.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beahmer
Unless they can prove that any increase in my property is directly related to metro then they are full of it. Prices are left on the uptick around here so they can never prove the metro or market increase. Ugh!

Here is MY favorite part of the "Lesser Study-RCLCO). This is the study on which the supers are relying on for all of their information: You'll LOVE this!!

"Numerous studies on the impact of rail transit have concluded that it increases the value of
nearby properties. The amount of the value increase and the distance to which the impact
extends, however, are influenced by many variables, such as the design of the station area, the surrounding land uses, the ridership of the transit system, frequency of service, etc. In general, however, the closer to transit a property is, the greater the value increase, and most of the value increases are likely to occur within a ½ mile walking distance of the station entrance. Most analyses of transit’s impact on value have been limited to ½ mile, and the few studies that have considered a greater distance have reached inconsistent conclusions. There may be a positive impact on value beyond the ½ mile distance, but it is likely small and difficult to quantify."

 

I'd also like to add that the special tax districts, IF adopted, will go into effect JAN 2013.

The multi-family dwellings that ARE YET to be built and will supposedly reap the most benefit, won't begin paying ANY special tax until after they are built and sold. So they will look to us to fund from 2013-2018 when the rest of these guys come online.

There are some apartments, however, apartment buildings are considered commercial property as I understand it may not be subject to the residential tax.

Many of the supers cannot support a county wide C & I tax and in order to tax commercial in a small area, they must prove that they can make 85% of what they would countywide (complicated) So there's a giant loophole for you.

Whatever privately owned condos are over there WILL be subjected to the tax. So you pay, but the renter across the street does not...wow....

THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER SOLUTION, don't make me fight this all by myself people.

NO APATHY ALLOWED!

 

Believe me, I'm talking to several of them! A tax district does make sense.
Here is the REAL problem:
Loudoun waited way, way too long to figure out how to pay for this. Fairfax county set up their tax district for it way back in 2004. They also got legislative approval from the state to EXEMPT residential units from the tax.
This is what Loudoun would like to have, but the state isn't in session right now. So they are trying to find ways to accomplish the same thing. The issue is whether they can legally do it.

Scott York made a good proposal to look at a 1/2 mile district, the inner core of the stops, and a 1/2 mile outer core. This would tax primarily the businesses that will develop around the stops and only residential that is considered to be walking distance to the stops. It is generally a given that if you are more than 1 mile from a stop, people will drive there (either by car or by bus) rather than walk.
He proposed a 10 cent tax for the inner core and a 5 cent tax for the outer 1/2 mile. With the revenue generated, there would only need to be about 1 1/2 cents added to the countywide tax rate to pay the balance.
This makes sense to me. I would consider a higher tax rate for the inner 1/2 mile because that would be almost exclusively new development built around the stops.

 

Yes, I heard him say that. However, if I lived there I'd be upset. So I'm lobbying that no residents pay any more than the next guy.

The commercial stuff is kind of a moot point because they need to hand MWAA $48MM in 2013, $64MM in 2014, $68MM in 2015 and so on, and the revenues from the not-yet-built stuff won't even begin until 2018 and after.

Please also note that we ALREADY have a $112MM debt due to Phase I. Again, apartments are commercial prop, so to legally charge them, they have to do some fancy footwork.

I agree they sat around and did very little finance planning apparently for many years. That's why this looming DUE DATE is so distressing. They say if they delay it costs millions of dollars, well apparently, who the heck cares? What's a few million here and there?

 

I think you pass this type of tax district, the go to the state and ask them to approve the removal of residential properties, just like Fairfax county.

Yes, it will take time for the commercial to develop. Metro is a long term benefit, not short term.
Without Metro to Loudoun, it ensures all significant commercial development will be in Fairfax (they get the tax revenue advantage) and a big chunk of those employees will live in Loudoun (which drives up residential tax rates).
This is a scenario Loudoun can not afford.

 

My comment is in reference to a special tax district, "hence" the title of this thread.

 

But even that, my friends at GoBananas for example, won't benefit from the metro because, no one is walking that far, one. And I'm pretty sure that people aren't flocking to Moorefield station to shop anyway, 2. The flocking anywhere is a myth.

The whole increased revenue will be realized only by the developers. The land sellers, real estate sellers, etc. Maybe a starbucks would benefit if located right at the station. Maybe a dry cleaner? A bank? Otherwise, It's once and done. Even the Lesser report indicates this. "higher demand to develop" Guess I just need more convincing.

My neighbor owns a retail store, used to own one in White Marsh Mall. They brought Metro there, it ruined the place. Same is true at Pentagon City. I guess I'm thankful this is not going to DTC. I'm a bit sad for Tyson's now too if this is the trend. I'd love to see the data on this, how many ride the metro and shop and spend, vs. loiter.

 

How exactly do we measure how far we are from the Metro stop? Where is it going to be in relation to the Harris Teeter, for example? So we can figure out the 1/2 mile vs 1 mile vs 2 mile points. I am pretty sure that I am about .75 to .9 miles from the HT.

 

As the crow flies:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/omagi/7211416828/

 

Honestly.....our strip malls are struggling and plauged with vacancy. Do you really believe that people will not locate themselves and put a premium on (i.e. buy housing) things close to the metro. ALso, there is just natural traffic (i.e. people driving to the metro) that will cause them to know more of what is around it and make those places more accessible.

It isnt about people getting off the train to go to Glory Day's at southern walk....it is about people living close to the train and suddenlu there being a larger pool of people to go to Glory Day's.

So what we would likely see, if the commercial construction is done well.....is some density around the station.....

 

This post is about singling out these houses and businesses to pay additional tax.

Even if you "think" people will go to Glory Days, you can't guarantee it, and therefore, only those developers in the immediate vicinity should be paying. The developers built Rt. 28 because there was no money and they knew they would benefit. They can do the same here but aren't willing to do it *YET* because we're so rich and dying to spend our money on the most expensive transpo project ever in this state.

 

DANG, too soon:

This post is about singling out these houses and businesses to pay additional tax. They should NOT be saddled that way.

Even if you "think" people will go to Glory Days, you can't guarantee it, and therefore, only those developers in the immediate vicinity should be paying.

The developers built Rt. 28 because there was no money and they knew they would benefit. They can do the same here but aren't willing to do it *YET* because we're so rich and dying to spend our money on the most expensive transpo project ever in this state.

According to the 'trusted' reports, people will use the metro to LEAVE LoCo, and go to restaurants and work further in. It's counterproductive with the exception of the walkable (1/2 mi.) space. So, great location for a Starbucks like I said before. Oh, and the study makes the assumption that a large percentage of the multi-family dwelling peeps don't need vehicles. hahahahaa

And to your point about ppl 'driving to the metro'; not so many parking spaces, more cars on the roads, and no funding to make new or bigger roads.

The planning isn't complete. This is the BIG point. Funding is far from complete, BIGGER point. I'm hoping the BOS will look to VA for more money, even though it takes money from other projects in the state. It's possible that Western Loudoun will pay nothing for this, with the exception of tolls, but nobody will be able to afford said tolls, so they'll be driving thru the hood. IF there is a revenue benefit from taxing the *new* businesses, then all of loudoun gets that benefit, not just us.

If we're dot-connecting, let's connect them all without overlooking the glaring inadequacy of the planning and financing.

 

I'm guessing that if Metro is built, there will be local area bus runs throughout the area to get people to/from there.

Also don't forget that the proposed development around the 772 stop, Moorefield Station, is HUGE. 6000 residential units and, I think, 20,000,000 square feet of commerial space. It, unto itself, will be a massive amount of development to help "pay" for Metro. But it is a 50 year project and will take time to develop. This scale of development will bring people out to Loudoun.

Are you saying White Marsh Mall is ruined? Every time I've been over there, the area is PACKED with people, and they are doing some big road improvements there as well.

 

*White Marsh or White Flint, I think White Marsh, but the retail owner that moved out of there said that not me. I've never been there but have been to PC.
*yes, it'll take longer than I live here for sure, but there is no revenue until 2018 or 2019, unless they get it from the developers now.
*VRT runs the intra county busses, losing $6MM from gas tax to go to metro, they close 15 routes, except in L'burg and over by the Univ on 7. Those are funded by those places. VRT loses and closes because if they county won't match state grant, they get zero dollars, so ultimately they lose $12MM, 6 from gas tax, 6 from state grant

Just poorly planned or they waited too long.

But I'm not fighting this anymore, nobody is willing to stand up, so take what you get. So sad, imagine if our founding fathers were so apathetic.

 

Oh, thank goodness!