Broadlands Medical Facility

Sorry, I meant exrook, and then GCyr. I don't know most of you, so thanks for being patient with me. Thunder, that's a good question, and for me the population projections that are in line with smart growth wishes for the county lead me to ask how much is HCA prepared to lose to get in here and get running? Standard business practice budgets for that. How much have they already risked, are they in the hole already, how much have they determined is an acceptable risk of loss balanced against projected profit etc? The hard push can be interpreted any number of ways, one of which could include a certain amount of desperate gamble. My opinion only, because none of us knows all of everything about this.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

He was hired by LHI to help prepare and advocate their view of how healthcare should develop in the county. He is also chair of the Loudoun Republican Party, who helped the current Republican majority win their seats. Smart move on LHI's part - to hire someone with such access to lobby their side of the issue.

Note - I edited this post to remove a reference to a previous post that has since been edited.

 

Barbara,

I think it's mincing words when you say you don't want to "kill" the BRMC project that you only support the CPAM. The effect of the CPAM, if enforced by the BoS as proposed, would be to deny HCA the building permits for BRMC. How is that not killing the project? I understand the desire for you or others to get facilities located closer to the South. I have the same desire for Broadlands. What I take issue with is the idea that is being promoted by supporters of the CPAM that just because the BoS wants a hospital in Dulles south or the west it will happen. I will ask the question again. Where are the beds coming from? Who is going to build the hospital?

We can spin the demographic numbers six ways from Sunday, but that doesn't change the fact that we (all of Loudoun) need the hospital today. Not in 7 years, not in 10 years, but now. Unless you have information on another entity who is already looking at building a hospital in South Riding (and not the ridiculous day hospital proposal by LHI) and has a guarantee that the State will add 100+ beds to the area, we only have one option and that is BRMC.

 

Barbara,

I would guess that HCA is in it for the long haul! IMO...the cpam is a scam! It was described like that on a post much earlier in this thread. There is no other choice right now for Loudoun. It doesn't matter what any official in this county wants or thinks. The bottom line is that whatever is happen here, South Riding, Sterling, Leesburg...it all has to go through the State. So all this cpam stuff is a joke and a smoke screen. You can write it however you want a million ways (which you do write a lot of rambling letters to the newspaper against BRMC), Loudoung Hospital is trying to defend their cushy little good old boy network here in Loudoun and they have no plans to build in South Riding. You keep right on supporting your cpam efforts and see what happens if the BOS turns down BRMC's request. You'll be sitting in South Riding with Steve Snow and no hospital, no day clinic, nothing, zippo!

 

Thunder,

It is irrelavent if HCA used outdated, or inaccurate numbers published by the County. It wasn't HCA that justified the need for a new hospital. They just facilitated an independent assessment.

The State made the assessment, independent of either HCA, or BRMC, and determined a hospital is warranted and subsequently approved it for Broadlands. Period, end of story.

Any attempt to attack the numbers is in effect diverting the real issue. In fact, to be blunt, some would call this tactic, "politics".

Before anyone will convince me there is an alternative to BRMC, an alternative site anywhere... I will need to see how the new site will not delay the delivery of additional hospital care that is needed NOW. An immediate need independently justified by the State.

I can't imagine how an alternate project would ever get up to speed, land purchased, zoning approved, State approvals received, hospital owner found, construction done, etc, etc within the timeframe currently promised by BRMC. BRMC has already gone through most of this and we are already several years into it. A new site would have to start anew with absolutely zero momentum.

To quote Steve Snow, "we need a hospital, RIGHT now"! (Foot stomped for emphasis) A change in location, kills a new hospital for years. Years we can't afford.

By the way, Barbara, please don't take this comment personally. Welcome to the conversation! I too, am an outside to Broadlands, and I've felt welcome here. Albeit I am ribbed from time to time, but it's all in good fun.

Feel free to enter discussion on other topics. The more the northern side of Dulles district learns about SR, and visa versa, the better.

 

Good morning folks.
Exrook: hiring the top land use firm, which also happens to have Republican partners in this heavily Republican county, is indeed smart. Mainly because they're a good firm, and no smarter than tapping a top Democrat to help in getting the state to look at new info and reverse the 1st COPN, if that is what happened. Don't forget that both western supervisors voted in support, and one is a Democrat and the other an Independent supported by the Democrats.

Vweisenburg: I can't kill the project, and I won't be coming out strongly against it. Neither will I come out in support of it. I don't agree with the crisis viewpoint that says the need is so immediate we have to take this/here or we're out of luck forever. I'm afraid that if we succumb to the emotion of that position, we won't be getting a second hospital, we'll be getting a replacement. The close proximity in location will pretty much preclude any approvals for years into the future. BRMC already had to make the case that they could go inside the usual boundary. If it is true that they will be drawing from the same patient base and thus harming LHI's ability to remain competitive, we'll all have to wait while "the best hospital wins".

What is the day hospital? I was out of town for two weeks, and didn't see the Easterner article that is mentioned here previously. Is it an urgent care center, an emergency room setup, what? Is it a phasing project? I don't have any info on that, and what little info was on the thread sounds like the article didn't provide much. Was it covered by any other news sources?

Soxfan: I don't think planning for location of facilities in the fastest growing county is a scam, I think it's a logical necessity. Approvals for new beds go through the state, but land use approvals happen here. Did HCA dance on the head of a pin in Richmond and tell the technical truth that a portion of the site lists a hospital as a possible use, pending an approval process to grant that use? The site is split zoned, the two parcels are administered under the zoning ordinances of two previous comp plans (previous to the revision of 03), and one does not include hospital as a listed use. HCA has a bundle of applications to get the zoning in sync and approved, and Richmond has nothing to do with that.

The mills of the zoning gods grind exceedingly slowly in Loudoun, particularly now because growth is so politicized. That's the reason our unacknowledged firehouse is a "temporary" structure: the proffered site accepted when we were rezoned was not suitable to Fire and Rescue in light of the changes in growth between rezoning approval and the building of the station. The site preferred by Fire and Rescue and offered as an alternative by the developer took three years to go through zoning. The temp building is on the proffered site. They may break ground on the permanent structure this year. Again, to trump fact with "now or never" emotion doesn't work for me. The county just reopened for business this year (actual business, as opposed to smart growth wishful thinking). I think anything less than accurate information coupled with good planning is irresponsible.

I guess I'm long and rambling again(you got me there), but know that I wrote two letters on the subject in two years, both in response to letters from people who don't live in South Riding saying how good BRMC will be for South Riding. Suffice it to say they affected me the same way it probably affects those in Broadlands who oppose that location for the hospital when people who don't live there say it needs to go there.

AFGM: Facts aren't irrelevant, if fact is to be used to make the location case. I saw a lot of discussion about population which "proved" location. You can't have it both ways. If the state looked at innacurate new info in the process of reversing themselves, the spin on numbers isn't coming from me. We can't justify immediate need on emotion, and if numbers are irrelevant, we'll never justify it on fact. If the incorrect info is out there that the site is ready, that probably affects the timetable of BRMC's delivery date. The state approved the relocation to Loudoun--in part on info that the site was ready to go? It isn't, and that isn't political, it's the process. Do we now do away with the process because of the emotion of immediate need? A plan amendment with the support of 8 out of 9 BoS members isn't zero momentum.

The community meeting with Steve Snow happened while I was away, so I don't know the incident that prompted your multiple references to the foot stomp. Again, we're in the field of emotion: do you feel Steve's apparently extremely vivid stomp supports the emotion argument?

Don't take my comments personally either, but I will state that I feel you and I shouldn't get too deeply involved in arguing with each other here. We are guests in somebody else's community discussion, and if we really want to get into debate we should do so through another medium. I'm in the phone book. I do agree that we can all learn from each other. The most important aspect to me is that we have dialogue open.

Everybody: What about my question? The more regional facilities located in your community, the fewer approved for other areas in the county. This sword has two edges. You get the benefit of being in close proximity to a wide variety of services. The flip side is that it will make you downtown Loudoun, if that's where everything will be. You have a lot of urban zoning in close proximity. How fast do you want it to come on line? What do people think?

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

afgm,

Just to clarify, I think we're in agreement here. I was just pointing out that even if someone wanted to make the argument that the population further south will be higher, it's basically HCA's choice as to whose numbers they want to use - it's their money on the line. And given that, I think they'd do their best to make sure that they are as accurate as possible.

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Barbara,

You are making my point. The State took an unbiased look at all available numbers. The numbers are projections, and very suspect regardless of which side of the argument you are on. Point being, that is why the State has jurisdiction over needs analysis and ultimately these decisions. The State looks at all available information and formulates an educated judgment on the necessity of healthcare for the entire region. Not just for a small area, like South Riding, or Ashburn.

Attempting to make a case that BRMC mislead the State by incorrectly interpreting County number projects is an attack on the process. If the process is at issue, then we have a bigger issue to discuss. I am certain the State assimilated those numbers with other numbers and used professional judgements to lead to their conclusion.

This process has served the Commonwealth for decades. It continues to be a proven process. Frankly, it is the only way to minimize these political and parochial debates, and center the conclusions on facts not emotion. The State's decision is not an emotional decision. Two towns or a county looking at a healthcare issue can lead to a lot of emotion.

The State does this stuff full time, their experience is invaluable. Virginia Counties are fortunate to be able to rely on this resource for decisions like these. A county attempting to look at this, independently, has a huge learning curve, and minimal experience analyzing the demand for healthcare. Frankly, it would be a full time job, one that as a tax payer I would not like to fund. It is more efficient for the State to handle these decisions, as they handle these issues for multiple jurisdictions. Additionally, as a state taxpayer, I am already paying for this analysis. I see no efficiency or cost savings in having a county duplicate the task.

As for Steve's comment. As stated earlier, I believe he has accepted the State conclusion that healthcare is needed now, not later. I believe he accepted the State's conclusion as not being emotional. I do think he has a misconception on how quickly an alternate site can come on line.

The State has a wonderful role in decisions like this for all areas of the Commonwealth. Consider them an arbitrator. They can look at healthcare issues from the bigger picture. We discussed this a lot earlier in this forum. Two towns arguing over need, timing, etc. only leads to political decisions, not decisions based on need.


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AFGM: Facts aren't irrelevant, if fact is to be used to make the location case. I saw a lot of discussion about population which "proved" location. You can't have it both ways. If the state looked at innacurate new info in the process of reversing themselves, the spin on numbers isn't coming from me. We can't justify immediate need on emotion, and if numbers are irrelevant, we'll never justify it on fact. If the incorrect info is out there that the site is ready, that probably affects the timetable of BRMC's delivery date. The state approved the relocation to Loudoun--in part on info that the site was ready to go? It isn't, and that isn't political, it's the process. Do we now do away with the process because of the emotion of immediate need? A plan amendment with the support of 8 out of 9 BoS members isn't zero momentum.

The community meeting with Steve Snow happened while I was away, so I don't know the incident that prompted your multiple references to the foot stomp. Again, we're in the field of emotion: do you feel Steve's apparently extremely vivid stomp supports the emotion argument?


Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.
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AFGM: Maybe you're making one of my points for me. If the state agreed that new beds were needed now, they would have approved more beds for the region, instead of moving existing beds within the region. Part of the state process involves looking at local land use. If we have no land use statutes that designate local location in relation to local growth planning, they have to rely on...hearing that the application to move has an appropriate site ready to go? Hearing that the population projections support the site that is ready to go? If the state had complete control over specific site location within jurisdictions of a planning region, they would not allow counties or townships to control the land use issue in the process. State would trump county, and currently it doesn't.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

So now as a South Riding resident, you are using our Broadlands HOA forum to tell us all the reasons that you are opposed to HCA building a hospital in Broadlands so some yet-to-be-determined hospital can be built in South Riding. [?]

Although Steve Snow did not want to discuss BRMC at his meeting last week, he did make it perfectly clear (several times) that with by-right development (i.e., an office park), the Board has no say or control in what the developer does with the property as long as it meets all other zoning requirements. If the hospital is not built, some office park that the Board has no control over may be built in its place. So, in addition to providing health care that Loudoun County needs now in its most populated area, BRMC provides us, our Broadlands community, with some control (through the Board) over the property landscaping, set-backs, building placement, parking, etc.

I'm sure you, as a South Riding resident, may not agree with this logic, but me, as a Broadlands resident who lives directly across from the BRMC property, strongly agrees with it. So, I believe your South Riding reasons for wanting a hospital in South Riding belong in a South Riding HOA forum, not here. Obviously, other Broadlands HOA members don't agree with me, but I'm entitled to my opinion as they're entitled to theirs. Otherwise, we'd all agree on BRMC in Broadlands...

 

Fair enough and I am in agreement. My response should of noted your point as an insightful one, and one that hasn't been talked about before. A rarity within this forum.

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GCyr: the CPAM is about more than SR or Broadlands. There are approved beds in the pipeline for the region. If, when they come online and BRMC is already in process, the state concludes that the region needs no new beds (and I think we do), we're stuck with all the local beds being in the same general place for the foreseeable future. This doesn't serve the county as a whole well. I can appreciate your position that I don't belong here, but I'm not about give me a hospital instead of you. I also offer that it is about more than how whatever is built will look, even though that is particularly important if you're in close proximity. PDOP was on the books from day one in that location, and nothing prevents your community from working with anyone seeking by-right use just as those who support the hospital have worked with BRMC on the site drawings and plans, if that's the way it shakes out. I'd rather see the county look at our local planning, site the general areas best from all aspects (rate of growth, trans, existing facilities, population), and make a factual case for more beds--which the state won't do until what they've already approved in the way of NEW beds is online. A bed shuffle based on "now or never" could hurt us all in the long run.

My say for the day. I got so revved up when I was approved for access, it is tempting to hang here and debate. Two benefits to coming only once or twice a day: I won't be here all the time to annoy those who think it is inappropriate for me to be here, and all my ranting will be in one piece that is easily scrolled past and ignored. Fair?

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Welcome to the Broadlands forums, Barbara! It’s always interesting to see this issue debated from someone else’s perspective. I’ll try to answer all of the issues/concerns you directed to me. I have heard you speak on both the high school and CPAM issues and have read your many letters to the editor. Given your good relationship with some of the board members, maybe you can help shed some light on the hospital related issues.

In response to your note…First, the Fire and Rescue websites – I spoke with Mary McGuire, the Public Info Officer for F&R. The call volume for South Riding (#19) is incorporated in the call volume for Arcola (#9). According to Mary, she currently has no way of breaking this info out. So, the numbers stand at 883 EMS calls in 2003 for the combined areas of Arcola and South Riding and 2301 EMS calls for Ashburn, a difference of 165%. The figures projected for 2008 are 928 EMS calls for Arcola/South Riding and 3219 for Ashburn, a difference of 247%.

Second, the population stats – As Mark Looney stated, they used the best information available which was from Loudoun County. I can only assume that if South Riding’s numbers are off, the numbers for every Planning Subarea in Loudoun County are off. The numbers, if they are wrong, are proportionately correct. The bulk of Loudoun County’s population (77%) lies in the Potomac Falls, Sterling, Ashburn and Leesburg region.

The question was posed to Steve Snow during our community meeting last week…who has an interest in building a hospital in South Riding? The county has a state approved hospital ready to begin construction in Broadlands, a hospital which will cost the taxpayers $0 and will generate an estimated $3-4 million in tax revenue to the county.

Since you seem to have your finger on the pulse of your community and on the pulse of the BOS, maybe you can find out for us – is Loudoun Hospital communicating with members of the BOS regarding their desire to bring a (LHC) hospital to the residents of South Riding? The Loudoun Easterner reported that they were, then they weren’t…do you know which is correct? Oddly, Steve Snow invited Loudoun Hospital to speak at your last community meeting. The CEO of BRMC attended our meeting and wasn’t even given an introduction.

As for “the current revised comp plan states plainly that facilities will be directed to the areas where growth is desired”…can you help me out by letting me know where this appears in the Revised Comp Plan? I scanned through the Rev Comp Plan available at the Loudoun.gov website. I couldn’t find the part that specifically addresses facilities. I was able to find comments pertaining to facilities in the 2001 version…but most of the comments were regarding those that were funded with tax dollars. If you could post the link, that would be great.

As for how quickly we want our area to urbanize…it may be a little late for that. With the approved housing units currently on the books, our area is going to continue to see significant growth. I previously quoted a number of 13,000 housing units on the books for Ashburn. This number may increase as I am able to determine where some of the other developments are actually located within the Dulles District. Using the average number of persons per household of 2.82 (this number came from the Rev Comp Plan), this equates to an additional 36,660 residents in Ashburn. In contrast, the number of approved residential units in the Dulles District is 7,230 (once you remove Brambleton from the Dulles number), or 20,388 residents. I would not be surprised if the average number of persons per household in both Ashburn and South Riding is somewhat higher....maybe that’s where the county numbers are off. Personally, I would love to see more businesses coming to our area…anything to avoid the congestion along 28 and the ever increasing tolls. With the current population of Ashburn already at 49,497 and with another 37,000 on the way I would say the “regional facilities” are desperately needed. (By the way, the current population of the Dulles area is 12,975 according to Loudoun County. Again, Brambleton would need to be extracted from this number.)

LCPS projections also indicate Ashburn is where the growth is and will be. Enrollment for the clusters in the Ashburn area (Briar Woods, Broad Run, Stone Bridge) as of Sept 30, 2003 was 11,544. Projected enrollment for these clusters in the Ashburn area in 2008 is 21,236. Current enrollment for the Freedom High cluster in South Riding is 1,595. Projected enrollment for the Freedom High cluster in South Riding in 2008 is 7,083.

Your concern with the presentation of incomplete or incorrect info about your community…Barbara, I have to ask you…can all of these agencies…Fire & Rescue, Public Schools and the agencies responsible for tracking population stats and housing permits…be wrong?

Interesting quote from Steve Snow on South Riding’s website…
If you have been following the hospital issue, you know that my position is not in favor of one hospital over another, but is very much in favor of planning for healthcare availability for all county citizens. This is why I strongly support the Comprehensive Plan Amendment that would allow for local planning in location of healthcare facilities. If you agree and support healthcare in Dulles South, then I hope you too will support this planning amendment.

I agree with you, Barbara…this should not be a political issue. It seems puzzling that the current board disbanded the county’s healthcare task force as one of its first actions after taking office in January. Then, they fast tracked the proposed countywide healthcare policy. I guess we can thank Loudoun Hospital for making this a political issue.

Your comment, “I'd rather see the county look at our local planning, site the general areas best from all aspects (rate of growth, trans, existing facilities, population), and make a factual case for more beds--which the state won't do until what they've already approved in the way of NEW beds is online. A bed shuffle based on "now or never" could hurt us all in the long run.” Is Loudoun County going in the business or running hospitals?

I like your comment… “The county just reopened for business this year (actual business, as opposed to smart growth wishful thinking).” I hope the BOS can support this claim with the approval of a special exception for BRMC.

As far as your area having to struggle for any service you get – let’s save that discussion for another thread. The topic of this thread is Broadlands Regional Medical Center.

You’re right, Barbara…there are more people in the county than in our 2 communities. A hospital located in Broadlands would benefit more residents than our 2 communities…and Barbara, no matter how you word it, a vote in support of the CPAM is a vote in opposition of BRMC.

 

Barbara,

Since you said the CPAM isn't a scam. Can you tell me who is building the hospital in South Riding that Steve Snow thinks is going to happen? Correct me if I'm wrong but nobody has stepped up to the plate to build down there have they?

How does a group of non medical people know what is or isn't good concerning healthcare issues in a county? I guess the Loudoun BOS are just an exceptional group of people that can run a county and know how to provide healthcare and know where it needs to go. The rest of the state that relies upon Richmond to put it all together for the entire state must be jealous that their county BOS's aren't up to speed. I feel pretty lucky we are so fortunate in Loudoun

 

Let's be very focused.

Barbara (or others for that matter) Is it your opinion a new county hospital can be built, somewhere other than Broadlands, within the same timeframe currently outlined by BRMC?

If "yes", can you be specific as to who will build it, where it will be, is it zoned correctly and how will the State approve it within the current BRMC timeframe?

If "no", what is your time estimate on building on a different site? How is this estimate arrived at and what are the obstacles?

 

Barbara-
Hospitals 5 miles apart is not unusual in areas of high density. There are three hospitals within 7 miles of each other in Fairfax county. Fair Oaks and Reston are about 6-7 miles apart, and both are thriving. Where I lived in Indianapolis had two hospitals right next to each other, and both thrived. The state does believe that hospitals should be 10 miles or more apart, but grants approval after doing a more in depth analysis on both the patient load at the existing facility and considering if another hospital in close proximity to an existing one could unduly harm the existing facility. These were both considered in granting BMRC its COPN approval.

Let's take your position and Steve's position: the CPAM is passed, and HCA abandons it's plans to built BRMC in Broadlands and wants to build SRRMC in South Riding. The land is zoned, the people are happy. The COPN is filed, and Dr. Stroube says "sorry, but locating a hospital less than 10 miles from Fair Oaks will not be approved." Where are we then? No new hospital in Loudoun County. Boy, is LHC happy now!!!

Regarding growth, what's here is here. The growth for Dulles north is here and mapped out and zoned. The Dulles South will continue to grow and with the extension of water and sewer in the "transition zone", the rezoning applications will surely follow. In 10-15 years, the population will be such that another hospital, in addition to BRMC, will be needed. Trying to stop BRMC from being built via the CPAM will most likely NOT result in a hospital being built in South Riding.

 

Good morning! Jeanne, my capsule first response is that yes, sometimes the figures are wrong, and it depends on asking enough questions to get a more accurate statistical view. Remember, there are "lies, #### lies, and statistics". (BTW, I spoke with a neighbor who is an EMT at Arcola, and he said the call tracking is also skewed this year by a new reciprocal call arrangement with Fairfax. My suggestion for getting a more accurate view of call volume in relation to population would be to plot the calls, sorted by type, on a grid if you want to see who's responding and where they're going. You'll still have to run the numbers by total population in the service areas, because as you noted, some families may have more children than "average". Some regions may have more calls than "average".)
The problem with using any one resource to track population is that different services have different service boundaries within which they track--ambulance response area is not the same as school boundary etc. Add to the fact that service boundaries overlap planning subareas, district lines, and precinct lines, and population data ends up being a matter of collating several resources and running your own stats (which you may be amenable to if you believe that Brambleton numbers should be tracked in another category!). You'll never get anything that corresponds to one departments "official" report. Running your own results against the annual COG growth summary is a good checking mechanism, and even they can drop the ball: COG is the unit that released that oops! Loudoun was actually number one in the nation, as the growth rate had accelerated since they drew their last report and made their projections. Where do you think a significant percentage of that unexpected 30% increase was?
As far as links, an quick method (comparatively) to learn about the philosophy of the comp plan might be to read the three documents that formed the outline for it: Al Van Huyck, "A Citizen's Strategy
for Smart Growth", Oct 99, which I believe can be found online in the Leesburg2day resource room. The second document was published in Nov 99, "A Smart Growth Strategy for Loudoun County", and there are both an official PEC version, and a Sustainable Loudoun Network version, both available on their respective websites. The final document is the "Report of the Transition Team", which was delivered in Jan 00 to the BoS. Verbatim sections of these overviews are repeated throughout, and are also present in the "visioning" sections of the adopted plan. Give me some time on the links, because I'm not a good techie at cutting and pasting them.
As for public school tracking missing it on occasion, see this week's articles in L2day (both on construction projects advancing and on Arcola) and in LTM about the projected 2000 seat deficit on the 50 corridor within 2 years. These are some of the same people who, two years ago, said that there was no immediate need for schools here, perhaps based on the fact that the CIP (at that time) did not track any by-right until it was built out (and there was a lag even then).
I'll tell you a story about my own efforts to get some population data during redistricting: I was trying to see what picture registered voters painted, because that is generally considered to be 55% of total population (again, an "average"). I called the electoral board, and the person I spoke with maintained that broadlands went all the way up to Lansdowne. I had to keep zeroing in that I wanted to know what precincts were in the new Dulles district, and what precinct was the subdivision called Broadlands in? That's when I found out the voter stats for Hillside precinct. Their explanation of the confusion was that years ago, before there was much development, a large region along the Belmont Ridge was referred to as Broadlands. Interesting, but it does point out the necessity for asking the right questions.
As for applicability to the topic of proving the best location of health services, I'm with the Yankee Carpenter on this one: "Measure twice, cut once".

I'm out of here for a bit, but will be back to reply to the other folks later. Thank you for the welcome, and the thoughtful response, Jeanne.


Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Jeanne, Soxfan, AFGM, VaCliff: The fact remains that the state leaves land use control and decisions to the county, so I don't think it's a question of our BoS being so superior that they can run a county and healthcare (which I didn't say). It is their resposibility to plan land use in the county, which includes location of development, negotiating and lobbying for road improvements to serve it, location of schools, public safety etc, and that's why the state doesn't have control over specific site location for hospitals w/in the county. Sorry, but that's a fact.

Folks, none of us knows who is in negotiation over what parcels of land for anything now that there has been a sea change in the local administration. Cliff, you'd said earlier that every piece of land in the district is spoken for. That's true all over the country (which is one of my favorite points about open space--somebody owns it, wherever it is). If is is as yet undeveloped, that doesn't mean it isn't in play. The land use process doesn't bring the public in at level one: there is no public notification until it's public hearing time and the land gets posted, all of which occurs after any application gets through initial county staff review. Any entity seeking to buy a parcel doesn't have to advertise it. Isn't it true that many people found out about BRMC when they saw the tent at the announcement? No, I don't know of anything specific.

Guys, I think the same timeframe argument is a red herring. BRMC can only meet that (projected) timeframe if all their dominoes fall in a line. I don't buy the now or never, and Cliff you must not buy it either if you say the growth assures the approval of new beds w/in 10 years. Growth/population info can't be both irrelevant and relevant. That's one of the reasons I'm so appalled by the disinformation on growth.

A better capsule on that is that growth is so dynamic here, any report is out of date when its printed. Supposedly over 1000 new people move in per month. I don't know the in/out-migration formula except as it applies to schools, but if we're number one, I'll buy 1000. Any report is a snapshot only. I am not making accustations, but a possible explanation for choosing to use bad info in their presentation is that they want to be as close to LHC as possible. Again, if we buy "now or never", we may end up with a poor location for the rest of the county when the approved beds come on line and its time to reevalute. Then it will be too late, because BRMC will be there, on the Toll Road (another fun subject), blocking approvals. Sorry, but I think the hurry-up smells, and since there are no new beds, we can't say for sure the state agrees with "new" ones. Maybe if BRMC had presented accurate data (the first or second time) in Richmond, the state would indeed be saying "You need new beds!" I think we do.

Hope everyone is okay through the storms--got to go help with the yardwork before the rain. Bye for now.
p.s.--I'd be delighted to move with anyone to a Greenway or growth thread--it may be better topics for mutual discussion because they may not be as personally sentitive issues for some respondents. Let me know. B.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Hey Barbara, I just want to say I really appreciate your voice on this forum. Thanks for joining. I am pleased that you are speaking for South Riding and western Loudoun. I have several good friends that live in South Riding, so I understand the struggles you have out there... (I think I saw you at the high school naming focus group in Leesburg? My daughter was involved with that as well, she named the school for Brambleton.)
Anyway, thanks for coming on here and sharing your knowledge, certainly more in line to the rest of the county instead of the "Ashburn microcenter of the universe".
I agree with you, it is not "Now or Never" as HCA and their disciples would like us all to believe. Please continue to share with us your perspective and knowledge, it is a breath of fresh air compared to the 33 pages of the same old blah blah.

 

SK8R: Thanks! Do know that I'm only speaking for me. My opinions may be shared in part or in whole by some of my friends and neighbors, but I'm not any authorized voice for South Riding. I would definitely bet that some folks in western Loudoun would need a hospital in VERY close proximity if anyone said I spoke for them! I have friends in Broadlands and other Ashburn communities too, and that's why I'm grateful for an easy way to talk with people up there. I am sensitive to the "center of the universe" concept, because that gets tossed at us every time we come out for something, except that in our case it is sometimes followed with "and there's nothing there!" Thanks again, and anybody who wants to talk growth, land-use, politics, Greenway, point me to the spot and let's chew on it. Bye for now.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.