Broadlands Medical Facility

quick clarification: sometimes people accuse us of thinking we're the center of the universe. Was NOT pointed at any of you guys.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Barbara,

You still haven't answered the questions posed to you. Who will build the hospital in South Riding and can they get state COPN approval?

Richmond sees our region (healthcare) as having to many beds at this point and time. BRMC is combining two hospitals and turning over 100 beds (somebody correct me if this isn't the right number) back to the region. Because they are doing this, I believe that is part of the reason they were approved. They aren't adding new beds to the region but basically recycling the ones they have. While the county may determine land use, the state determines health care. It doesn't matter what the county says about land and where they think a hospital should be built, if they can't get a state COPN approval.

If the state already feels we have to many beds for the region, how do you think Steve Snow will get his hospital in South Riding.

If not BRMC in the Broadlands, then who and when?

 

SoxFan: I said yesterday that I know of nothing specific. I also said that doesn't mean that nothing is happening. There is a lot of land down here zoned commercial/industrial which, although one needs water and sewer to implement those zonings AND utility lines cross the properties or adjoin them (and have for several years), were effectively out of play when the comp plan was adopted and denied use of the existing water and sewer to the land. That's the part no one ever talks about when discussing the transition zone.

Before the Arcola post office closed, I was in there one day last month and people were talking about the number of parcels that were being looked at. No one knew for sure who was doing the looking or what they were considering implementing, but enough activity was occurring for it to be chatter at the PO. That's why the PO closed: they lost their lease, so something must be up with the property it was located on. That's an interesting story in itself: The PO boxes used by the longtimers were moved to the Ashburn PO, and at the community meeting to address the issue, USPS reps indicated that services would be expanded in Aldie. So, people who have lived south of 50 and east of 15 for years are now driving north of the Greenway to pick up their mail, but soon they might be able to have more service from a station west of 15, in a village on a road slated for "calming" in an area with 50 acre base density. Go figure. Does this mean the Fed now thinks Arcola is in Ashburn? Back to topic and question: I don't think anyone can show you whether anything specific is occurring, and I don't think that is proof of anything, since BRMC didn't advertise before they announced either.

As to COPN approval, didn't BOTH LHI and HCA COPNs get turned down the first time? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the argument for that that I heard at the time was that since there were existing bed approvals for the region that had yet to come on line, the state wasn't going to do anything about new beds until those previously approved were in play. The second COPN seemed to surprise everybody, and if in fact it was politically facilitated and used poor information to make the case, I think the same-timeframe argument is not viable. The fact is that HCA doesn't control the timeframe of land approval, and I have to admit that the bad population info (in both north AND south--Moorefield isn't going to be occupied anytime soon, and more than twice the number projected in 2010 already live in one part of down here) tends to support (in my opinion) the argument of those who say that HCA is targeting LHI's base.

As I said, good info and the support of a county board on location could be very effective in getting approval from Richmond. HCA didn't go in on the first or second time with official government support.

The now or never argument seemed to be that the state agreed that beds are needed now--so vitally that it was this location or none forever. How can now or never now be predicated on the state thinking we have too many beds? I think the state isn't going to budge on the matter of new ones until the approved beds are on line, and I can't really fault that argument from their point of view. Maybe if they had a history of accurate information from Loudoun, instead of denial and wishful thinking, we'd already have expanded service.

As to your closing statements, I'm not a fly on the wall in meetings with supervisors, but I wish I were! And as I said before, I'm a no-sale on "now or never". That kind of decision potentially leaves the county in a hole, not only on health services but on traffic and everything else that will be impacted. And if it places HCA in a position that diminishes the existing services, then it is a replacement instead of an augmentation. Not good for anyone.

Bye for now--sunshine equals family outing before the end of summer!

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

It may be a replacement but it's the only guaranteed thing according to the health planners. Take away all of your ramblings about what may or may not be for sale and we have a hospital waiting to go. That is the bottom line. Why deny all of us this opportunity based off of what may or may not be in the works.

Bye for now--Sunshine equals skin cancer that could be treated by BRMC!

 

SoxFan: Is this where I'm supposed to jump up and ask why you want to deny better access to the rest of the county? Uh uh, no thanks. I'd rather keep it a discussion. I'm willing to agree to disagree with you over the issue of immediacy and exclusivity of opportunity. There's a hard sell going on, and it gets my antennae up. I also don't buy the LHI vs. HCA. The CPAM is open to anyone, and doesn't cut HCA out. It prevents them from calling a county shot for the sake of their bottom line, but it doesn't shut them out of the market here. I think replacement vs. augmentation (of existing services here) is a legitimate concern.

In the interest of reduced rambling, I'll sign off now.

p.s.: sunshine equals cancer? Actually, we spent the day at the Inner Harbor, and had a blast. I'm pretty sure we didn't get anything that would necessitate immediate long term treatment, but you never know!

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

There's also a hard sell going on for keeping HCA off the CPAM that has my antennae up. Why is LHI putting up such a fight against BRMC and why wasn't BRMC included in the CPAM planning?

If LHI is so sure they want to build in South Riding, let them go for it, but to my knowledge they haven't filed a COPN to build down there or even purchased land. Does Steve Snow and others that are his followers think they will force HCA to build down there?

I hear all this talk about a hospital in South Riding and it has everyone out there in an uproar but there isn't anyone going forward with it. So tell me Barbara, who is going to build your hospital out there. If the answer is nobody at this point in the game...just say it.

As far as denying better access to the rest of the county...LHI did that when they decided to build on route 7...there are no other major roads leading into that facility and the traffic to get there is horrible. Why didn't they choose a smarter place? Why didn't they decide to build in South Riding?

 

Soxfan: I have said it, but they say third time's a charm. I don't know of anything specific.

Nobody can force HCA to build anywhere. Although I didn't accuse you of wanting to deny better access (in future, I'll type JOKE ALERT), if you intend the remarks about a smarter place like South Riding to be fightin' words, wal then I guess that just earns you.....a RAMBLE!

First: no one is keeping HCA off the CPAM. The CPAM includes comprehensively better sites than the one they've chosen as "now or never" for the entire county (in my opinion).

Second: when LHI moved east, it wasn't a snap decision. When it was planned, the most built-out areas were on the 7 corridor. Lansdowne, like any large undeveloped (at the time) community, is a smart choice because of the opportunity to get a large tract and leave room for expansion. As to why they didn't seek the Greenway, is there the possibility that, as a community hospital, they chose not to locate on a road that has a direct user fee (that keeps on going and going and going...)? Side note: much of the testimony out of western Loudoun I saw at the PC public hearing was leftover bad blood for moving out of Leesburg, and a good chunk of the testimony had to do with being negative about LHI. LHI wasn't on the agenda that night, was it?

Third, here are some fun facts from the HCA presentation to our HOA: They really had no presentation prepared, but brought a handout and some business cards. This is not to say they weren't courteous and professional, but we were a bit thrown that the only visual was a drawing of the site. The maps were 8.5 by 11, one set, that they passed around, and only took out of a briefcase after we started the questions. One of our guys picked them up and went down to the copier and came back with full sets for everyone, so we could all review at the same time. I'm sure they loved that, but to their credit they took it in stride. The questions came thick and fast when people saw that what's already in just our subdivision is twice what they project all the way to 659 four years from now. One person asked why they didn't look on the 50 corridor when they were selecting a site? Answer: "When we spoke to the county two years ago, it was our understanding from the new Comprehensive Plan that there would be no further growth on Route 50." Aside from the fact that the plan hadn't been adopted yet, we thought that was an absolute howler. The other thing I found a bit odd was the treatment of a question about the controversy in your community. Their reply was that a small group had initially opposed it, but they've worked extensively with the community and the concerns have been met. At their most recent meeting with the residents (I'm wondering if it was the one that some people on this forum were saying "What meeting?" ?) hardly anyone came, so it really isn't a big deal. We kept a straight face for that too, even though it didn't sound like what's been on here for a long time.

Fourth: there is no land in South Riding for anything. It's all spoken for. Unless of course you mean the region, the zipcode (based in Fairfax), the area that could be incorporated, etc. Kind of like Ashburn: not that long ago (to some people) it meant a village. Now it is an often generic term for a region made up of a variety of communities that are distinct and distinctive to their residents.

Last: one thing I've learned about smart growth battle plans, and that's whatever they're screaming about in relation to the other guy, that's usually what they're doing themselves. The Greenway is a prime example--"Roads are only developer's tools!" Well, that little road was built by a hunt country heiress (fortune derived from the manufacture of auto tires and gas pumps, in the first quarter of the 20th century), who also just happened to found the Jamestown Compact, a third party land trust (involved in the Oatlands viewshed PDR deal) which is "dedicated to the preservation of viewshed on Route 50 and Route 15". Aside from the fact that my inner Oliver Stone leads me to wonder if that explains where some of the ever-higher tolls go, isn't it interesting how all county plans under smart growth have development packed on that road? Ergo, I tend to think that "now" in your community may mean "never" for other areas in Loudoun. And that would suit smart growth just fine, since their approach to all service is attrition-based.

Rant and Ramble over, and bye for now. (must go check for skin cancer!) (JOKE ALERT!!!)

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

“On Saturday, January 12, 2002, about 46 residents of the Dulles community within Loudoun County’s Suburban Area met to share ideas, discuss priorities and engage in a dialogue about the implementation of Loudoun County’s Revised Comprehensive Plan in their area.”

Reference: http://inetdocs.loudoun.gov/pio/docs/communitymeetin_/dullescommunity-1/office2k/office2k.htm

Along with the 46 residents, 6 County Supervisors, 3 County planning commission members and a school board member were in attendance.

This meeting and the “process provided a format for community members to establish a dialogue and work together to identify and begin solving community problems.” This was a professionally facilitated meeting by a management consulting firm, specializing in communications and community outreach.

Department of Planning presented an overview of the Revised Comprehensive Plan, and the participants were divided into six discussion groups. “Participants raised questions in such areas as road and transportation projects, preservation of open space, environmental protection, plans for facilities and services, and quality of life.”

I find it interesting that during this work session and in the nine page report, there is zero mention of healthcare, hospital services, or a hospital location. The mention of public facilities only reflects schools, fire and rescue, libraries, and park facilities. Absolutely nothing was brought up associated with healthcare.

I have to ask, why do we now see a great interest in CPAM, and hospital facilities? Why didn’t it come up in this January 2002 session? Could it be that BRMC was introduced 6 months after this meeting and Loudoun Hospital freaked out? Could it be Loudoun Hospital was devastated (and desperate) by the State conclusion that a hospital was warranted in Broadlands? Could it be Loudoun Hospital made the location of healthcare a political issue and crafted the CPAM concept?

Barbara maybe you could provide insight? You participated in this meeting, as noted in the minutes. Why wasn’t hospital services and their locations discussed then? Why wasn't it brought up as passionately, as it has been recently, by those in attendance?

 

P.S.

A total of three public workshops on the Comprehensive Plan were held during this time frame. As noted, January 12, 2002 in South Riding. Same format used for a February 2, 2002 meeting in Ashburn. Same format used for a March 2, 2002 meeting at Potomac Falls H.S.

Reference:

http://inetdocs.loudoun.gov/pio/docs/communitymeetin_/ashburncommunit-1/office2k/office2k.htm
http://inetdocs.loudoun.gov/pio/docs/communitymeetin_/potomaccommunit/office2k/office2k.htm

In put for discussing the Comprehensive plan was facilitated at all three sessions. Multiple jurisdictions participated. A review of all three sessions show absolutely zero reference to hospital and healthcare locations.

A total of 136 residents: Ashburn 50, Potomac 38, and South Riding 46.
Board of Supervisors in attendance: Ashburn 9, Potomac 7, South Riding 6.
Planning Commissioners in attendance: Ashburn 6, Potomac 5, South Riding 3.
School Board members in attendance: Ashburn 2, Potomac 3, South Riding 1.

Six of the current Board of Supervisors participated in these discussion: York, Tulloch (Ashburn session), Staton (Potomac session), Delgaudio, Kurtz and Burton.

As an antidotal observation, Dale Myers attended the Ashburn session.

 

AFGM: thanks for posting these, because people can read for themselves and draw their own conclusions. Note that a second hospital was absent from both the questions the county gave the participants, as well as absent from the prioritized responses of the resident group participants. (In both Dulles and Ashburn) So, back to you, did a second hospital only become a priority for you after BRMC announced?

Note the questions. Three ephemeral feelgoods to two nuts and bolts. Note the responses. Nuts and bolts over ephemera every time.

Our major public health and safety issue at the time was trying to get the public safety station, bonded in 1999, built. At the public hearings before the adoption of the Plan, a reporter from the LTM spoke with me in the lobby and asked why we were so upset about the firehouse (a tent and a doublewide, which as I said houses the local hazmat response vehicle.), when it has "everything a permanent station has". Not the point: a majority of county voters approved a bond to build an actual station. We are not temporary.

I'm glad you put up the links, and I urge people to visit them all and read them all. It will provide an insight into how the general plan was adopted--facilitators and leading questions, to satisfy the public process, and "prove" that the plan was crafted with total hands-on by the public. Most people in eastern Loudoun have no idea how lucky we all are to have dodged the bullet of getting area plans adopted before the previous board was voted out. Of interest to Ashburn residents might be the "revitalization" that keeps popping up--in the Plan it is interchangeable with "redevelopment". Kind of like the PEC employee who testified at the approval of Moorefield that the 1-acre zoning at by-right use might be a better "interim" use for the property. "Interim". Like somebody is going to build executive homes at $800K+ on estate lots, and then tear them down when the rail gets here. Right. No fears though, because the PEC would be back to help whoever bought them fight the rail. Kind of like they're helping all the communities under the power lines east of Leesburg fight the WTC. Attrition is the name of the game.

Seriously, read them ALL.

Point of personal pride to us down here that we were the best attended. Yep, ever' single one of us come out fer it. (JOKE ALERT!!)

Dale Myers lives in Ashburn, so is there some reason she shouldn't have gone? There were no-growth activists there too. (Some of whom were not residents of the planning area in question.) Were they the single green-infrastructure respondents here and there?

Reminder to AFGM: I'll reply to you, but I don't think it's appropriate for you and I to mix it up too much here, unless we move it to an outsiders' thread.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

WHEN WILL THIS END?! HCA has choosen "The Broadlands" for their reasons ($$$) and received approval from the State. They will not change locations. Either the hospital gets built in Broadlands or it doesn't. If it does not get built here it will be many years before another hospital will.

I do not want one hospital in my county!

And since this has evolved into a thread about politics, let it die!

 

T8erman: That has been my premise from the beginning. I believe the decision to locate there was (at least in part) politically motivated, as an implementation of smart growth. That's why I joined. Because I want to talk issues with other people in a different area of the same district.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

HCA saw a need, the land, and the population growth forecasts. They bought the available land and now want to build their approved hospital on that land. So far no politics -- just a business case and health need. So, how is HCA wanting to locate in Broadlands politically motivated?

The politics come in after the fact when LHI and its politicians want the hospital located elsewhere. Now I see the politics and it isn't coming from HCA! [}]

 

T8erman:
Let's hypotheically assume the Loudoun county line is roughly five miles east and south of its current location. Under that scenario, there would be three hospitals in the county. THe point is that just because a hospital is not located in the county, it can serve the county residents. We have used HCA's Reston Hospital and found it to be convenient. I don't see a need to bring those same services closer.

People seem to forget that the regional health care advisory agency recommended against BRMC. One would think they have a better sense of what the regional health care needs are than the State does. It was only when the application got to Richmond the second time, that their recommendation got overruled. Remember, this is the same State that doesn't think we need additional funds for highways in this area and approved the Greenway Toll increase. Are you applauding these State decisions as enthusiastically?

 

Barbara,

Others have welcomed you to the debate and I join them. Debates are healthy in my opinion. Apparently Steve Snow does not agree when it comes to the hospital.

What evidence is there that HCA's decision to build a hospital at Belmont Ridge and the Greenway is politically motivated? I believe it was a business decision. I am not aware of any evidence that HCA decided on the location based on smart growth or the wishes of the previous board. I would appreciate any facts you can provide that support your conclusion.

Steve Snow's position on the hospital on the other hand is about as political as they come. He is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Everyone knows that Snow lives in South Riding and that he wants a hospital to be located in South Riding. He has tried to say he is not against BRMC but he clearly is and has been from the get go. He has shown bias by inviting LHC officials to a public meeting he held in South Riding without inviting anyone from HCA to discuss BRMC. When Snow held a public meeting in Broadlands a few weeks ago he refused to even discuss BRMC! As a resident of Broadlands I find his refusal to dicuss a key constituent issue at a public meeting here to be ubelieveable and further proof of his bias on the issue.

Snow says he supports the LHC proposed Countywide Health Care Facilities Plan. This obviously means he is opposed to BRMC since it is not included. This was an LHC proposal that was put forth AFTER BRMC received a COPN.

Finally I would like to point out that there is currently not one shred of evidence that any entity (including LHC) is willing to build a hospital in South Riding. Until someone who is capable and willing applies for a COPN it is all speculation with no factual basis.

skins fan

 

Skins Fan: thanks for the welcome. I'll try to respond in order.

As far as Steve Snow inviting LHC to the Dulles South community meeting, the vote to cosponsor the CPAM came about the same time as the planning for the meeting, so I don't find it strange that, as a "yes" vote on that issue, he included the CPAM presentation in the agenda. I do not know if he asked them, or they asked him, to be included, but I can tell you that in this same timeframe our HOA received a request to hear a presentation on the CPAM. They came and spoke to the HOA Strategic Planning Committee, and I attended. At the next monthly meeting a member (not me) proposed asking the Board of Directors to issue a resolution of support. In order to explore that issue fairly, the Committee contacted HCA and requested that they come and speak as well. I also attended that presentation. So far, where I believe the Committee is on that is to consider offering support for the planning amendment, but with the stipulation that this is not an endorsement of any individual healthcare entity.

Yes Steve Snow lives in the subdivision South Riding. Some people think of the surrounding region as the same thing. There is no potential hospital site in South Riding the subdivision. Thinking that he wants all facilities in this subdivision is akin to accusing Broadlands or Ashburn Farm of thinking that their individual communities are the only thing in the Ashburn region. We have a few one-dimensional thinkers down here who thought that his election meant that everything in Dulles district would now be exclusively representative of our individual community first, and I can tell you that he gets some nasty flak from people who (regardless of qualification) want to be appointed to county advisory boards and commissions simply because of their address. If Steve truly "wants everything in South Riding", I don't think he'd be making appointments from Ashburn. The woman who is the rep to the Commission on Youth happens to live in Ashburn, and she was reappointed because she is very good at what she does. The man who is on the rec board also happens to live in Ashburn, and he was reappointed because he is knowledgeable, qualified and good at what he does. The new appointee to the Facilities Standards Commission is from Ashburn, and he was appointed because of his experience and qualifications, which include former Zoning Administrator. Steve has been soliciting participation from the area called Transitional as well, because some of the people there have lived here the longest, have a variety of talents and experience, and have been the worst shafted of anyone in the growth wars. If everything were all about us, everything would BE all us, and it isn't. (Personal sideline--I am active politically, and did receive some nudging from various individuals--not Steve--to put myself forth for PC after the election. I was honored that they'd even joke about it, because I think that can only be considered as a heck of a joke. When you have someone as experienced, knowledgeable and talented as Larry Beerman, no contest, period the end. And gee, doesn't Larry live in Ashburn?)

As far as the topic not becoming the centerpiece of the community meeting in Broadlands, speaking only for myself, I would hazard a guess that the issue is so divisive in your community that Steve may have wanted to avoid the meeting degenerating into nothing more than a hospital brawl when there were other issues of district importance on the agenda. I do know for a fact that he has great liking and respect for Cliff, even though they apparently do not agree on this issue. He may also have been respectful of that fact in any possible avoidance of a divisive topic in your community. Again, my personal speculation only.

As for smart growth, although they've left your community Terrabrook's claim to fame is that they are a smart growth developer. Under a variety of LLCs and LLPs, they certainly got a lot approved under the preceding administration, most on the Greenway. There are a variety of ties between individuals that are political as well as development related, and I do believe the selection of the site was part of the plan to hasten the urbanization of the corridor. If growth is to be halted in the county at large, the market has to have somewhere to go, and the preceding board was famous for the use of public facilities to channel and control growth. In your case, the plan refers to the "vertical" "redevelopment" of the region. More later on that, because I've got to go for now. Thanks for the welcome, and the continued debate.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Barbara,

We've found something to agree on. Frankly, I don't think it is the only thing, just may seem so as the discussion has only been on the hospital issue.

Larry Beerman is a great person for the PC, and the County for that matter. I've supported him throughout his involvement in the community. We're lucky to have him so involved, and I value his in put, experience and opinions. I don't always agree with him, but I do know he takes our issues seriously and does his homework. Steve deserves credit for keeping Larry in the fold, especially after Larry's run at being Chairman. Wise move.

As for the other appointees you note. They too are upstanding volunteers for the County, specifically Jim Bonfils, Parks and Rec and Carol Kost, Youth Initiative. Both put in an absolutely enormous amount of time with little recognition. They are long term, multi-year volunteer public servants. We're fortunate to have them so involved.

I must say thou, the way you frame your post, it makes it sound like Steve has appointed all those mentioned. That is somewhat misleading. Not a big issue, but these are folks who have been active for many years and several appointments go back to Drew Hiatt. Consider it a clarification.

I was at the Broadlands meeting, and it was disturbing that Bryan Dearing CEO of BRMC was not introduced. Courtesy would of allowed for an introduction. Multiple others in attendance, not on the agenda, were recognized. Heck, I would of liked to have seen who Dearing was, and talked to him afterwards. Unfortunate; and I am sure Steve would think twice next time about the oversight.

Broadlands/Ashburn has been living and discussing this debate for years. I dare say very few have the same perspective or depth on the issue, as those in other parts of the County. It's a longevity thing. This is a global statement, both sides of the arguement have been involved.

Steve missed a wonderful opportunity to gain that perspective, and expand his knowledge of this issue. I listened to his public statement, and I truly think he is still in the learning curve. To me he has only listening to south Dulles and LHI. At some point, I think he needs to say, "I come to a conclusion after hearing all sides of the issue...". Perception at this point is, he can't say that. He didn't help that perception by shutting down debate.

 

AFGM, I wish I could have seen your unedited post. I don't think your clarification needed clarifying, because I said both "appointment" and "REappointment". Particularly in the case of Jim Bonfils, who does have a heck of a resume and chops. There was an individual down here who wanted that post, and has a lot of hard feeling over not getting it. I give credit to Steve for gaining some (misplaced) bad blood in his hometown in order to make the best decision for the district and stick with Jim. As I said, if it were really all about us, everything would be all us.

I'm at a disadvantage in not knowing your identity in assessing the Brian Dearing issue. I know some people have speculated here that your acronym stands for Ashburn Farm General Manager, but I also know the HOA board chair up there has initials that fit. If either of those people is who you are, aren't you being a bit disingenuous in implying that you've never seen Mr. Dearing? Your call whether or not to say your name, and speculation on my part only. Not intended as fighting words, just a comment that anonymity works in a number of ways: you are safe from direct personal attack in open discussion, but you are also free to imply things for the sake of the discussion.

As to Steve and the learning curve, aren't we all on one? Again, my opinion only, but he may have made the choice to cover the agenda instead of open the floor to a single battle. Is it possible that you feel he isn't listening because his views apparently remain different from your own? Do you think he hasn't heard from HCA? Again, he has the responsibility for the entire district, as well as the responsibility to be part of good planning for the county. Nobody gets anything passed by themselves. The fact that the two western reps also support the CPAM is of great interest to me--it may mean that their constituents see value in reopening a Leesburg facility, as well as gain access to emergency care in the southern, central and northern tiers of the rural area. It really isn't just about us.

I'm glad we agree on some things, and I think if we enlarged the debate--perhaps to planning in general and how it affects us all, instead of just healthcare planning and how it may affect our two communities--we might find some good meat to chew on. I enjoy talking with all of you here, and remain grateful that I was allowed to join. Bye for now.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

I think if the CEO of BRMC was not introduced at a Broadlands meeting, it doesn't matter who AFGM is. Straw-man argument.

 

Barbara, your forum profile does not have an email address contact. I'd like to send you a note, outside of this forum. Can you please provide it. Thanks