Incident on Ridgeway/Glyndebourne Court last night

Last night at around 9:30 my wife and I heard a gunshot (if you have ever fired a handgun you know the distinctive sharp "crack" it makes). The first one sounded like it was 75 to 100 yards away. about 45 sec later we heard a second shot and this time it sounded like it was in our backyard. I ran over to look out the window and saw 2 figures dressed in black, one was at the gate of our neighbors behind us and the other was in the nieghbors yard just over the gate. I am not sure if they saw me or they heard the neighbors coming to their back door, but all of a sudden they took off and ran across the small park that is on Ridgeway down.

As my wife was calling the sheriff, I grabbed my gun and went out to check the yard. At that point the neighbors wife was at her back door as well and said that they had looked out after hearing the shots and saw three people dressed in black at the edge of their yard. She also said that the shots had spooked one of their dogs and it had ran out the door and took off when they had opened it. We did not find the people who were trying to get in the neighbors yard, but unfortunately one of our other neighbors hit the dog as she was pulling off of our court.

The sherrif's department response was prompt and one officer helped direct traffic around the dog until we could get it on a stretcher and loaded into a vehicle. (While she was directing traffic her cruiser was almost clipped by 2 seperate drivers who had to be going 50 to 60 on Ridgeway) Several other officers searched the area but did not find anyone.

What concerns me is that this is not the first time we have heard the gunshots. In fact we had heard the same shots but further away several weeks ago. Either this is some stupid teenagers plying what they think is a funny prank or someone who is looking to break into a house. If it is teenagers, and someone reading this knows who they are, make sure they understand that they were 60 seconds away from being shot. They should also know that their actions nearly killed a dog (as of this morning he is doing fairly well, with some broken ribs and a lot of stiches but they think he will recover). Nice way for a little 3 year old girl to start her holiday season, burying her dog.

 

I would think teenagers. If someone was looking to break into a house, I doubt they'd be squeezing off a few rounds before breaking in...unless they're on crystal meth or something...it would kinda blow your cover.

Did they find any casings?

 

I just wanted to thank everyone who came out and helped our neighbors and their dog last night. Especially the husband of the vet who owns the office across from the Sunoco. Like I said, their dog looks like he will recover from his injuries and everything you all did to help (bringing blankets, etc..) I am sure was the reason he is doing so well.

 

Agreed. Probably teenagers. May have been firecrackers too (especially given the time difference between the two shots). Having fired a 9mm handgun several times, I know the sound too. But some firecrackers do sound like gun shots.

Also, if it was gun, where were they aiming? Did anyone report bullets hitting their house?

The shooters are likely quite dumb and will eventually be caught because of their general stupidness.

 

I didn't find anything when I searched the area this morning. The whole gunshot thing makes little sense, but right after the sheriffs showed up we all heard someone set off some firecrackers as well and they sounded entirely different then what we had heard earlier (if it wasn't shots or someone shooting blanks it was a firework I haven't heard before).

 

I agreee the whole thing makes little sense. Why make a bunch of noise before you climb over someones fence? and with the recent home invasions in the area, you have to be a moron to run around dressed in all black and playing pranks with fireworks late at night.

 

kids don't keep up with the news generally

But yeah, that would have been just great.. a bunch of dead kids on your hands for xmas... But, I guess you're used to that, since you're a republican...

Thank you for not shooting them...

 

Please.. Boomer can you just for once drop the politics.. We are talking about guns and kids.. Geezsh

 

Yeah, you're right. He should have let the punks shoot his own kids. That would have been better.

 

cracker,

guns and kids, you're right. Crazy gunowners who are jumping to conclusions and about to shoot some kids. I commended him for not shooting the kids. There is obviously some confusion as to if the punks even had guns. I'm not FOR the punks, but I'm not for shooting kids either

Thanks.

 

vweisenburg,

I gotta ask, I'm very curious. So you run outside with your gun. What were your plans? What was the gun for? I thought the first rule the NRA and other gun safety advocates teaches is to avoid confrontation.

If you had seen one of the persons in your yard or even the neighbors. Do you shoot him? You yell for him to stay put but he runs, do you chase him with the gun? I don't know if you went over all of the scenarios in your head before running out, but what would you have done?

 

Let me run down the scenario for you again. I heard what sounded specifically like gunshots (and my other neighbors that heard it said it was definitely gunshots and not fireworks) and saw one person dressed in black already in my neighbors back yard and one on the outside of the fence. My neighbors have two young children and I was not sure if the people I saw run had already been in their house/yard or if they had run away before they could get in.

So my intentions were to protect both my family and the neighbors as well, even if that meant shooting someone. Had they still been in the yard, I would have ordered them to lie down. If they had just run off, I would not have chased them unless there was clear evidence that they had been in the neighbors house (broken window or door). If they had made a threatening move then I would have shot them.

And to anyone who is going to respond that I should have called the police and waited for them to investigate, although the sherrifs response was quick, it was about 4 to 6 minutes before they arrived. When I was a teenager someone tried to break into our house while I was home with my three younger brothers. The time I first heard them bust the window on the laundry room door to the time they were trying to jimmy open the door from the laundry room to the house was less than 2 minutes. Had I not grabbed my fathers gun and chambered a round as loudly as possible, they would've been in the house in about 30 sec. So I am going to err on the side of protecting myself and neighbors with whatever force is necessary. Period.

 

Before I continue, let me say that I am not in the anti-gun lobby, just a person who is very curious about folks' motiviations, beliefs, etc.

You state "I am going to err on the side of protecting myself and neighbors with whatever force is necessary. Period." If you had shot one of them based on what you percieved as a threatening move, and then it turned out that there was no real threat -- i.e., no other gun, where would you be in terms of the law? I'm sure there is legal precedence.

 

The law in Virginia requires that the person committing what they consider an act of self defense must have a reasonable fear of some harm that justifies the act. Using the incident as an example, since there were multiple witnesses who heard the gunshots it would be resonable for a person to assume that there was the existence of a firearm. Therefor, use of a firearm in defense, whether or not the criminals had a firearm, would be justified under the law.

The standard instruction to juries considering self-defense cases is as follows:
"THE COURT INSTRUCTS THE JURY THAT the amount of force used in self-defense must be reasonable in relation to the harm threatened, and that the defendant is not allowed to use deadly force in self- defense unless he reasonably feared, under the circumstances as they appeared to him, that he was in danger of being killed or that he was in danger of great bodily harm."

There is also case law covering the use of force to protect or defend others:
"Thus, under the majority view, in order to justifiably defend another, the defendant must reasonably believe that the person being defended was free from fault; whether the defended person was, in fact, free from fault is legally irrelevant to the defense in those jurisdictions. This view is based on the principle that one should not be convicted of a crime for attempting to protect one whom he or she perceives to be a faultless victim from a violent assault. Under this approach, the policy of the law is to encourage individuals to come to the aid of perceived victims of assault. We find this position to be well-grounded in principle and policy. Accordingly, we hold that the law pertaining to defense of others is that one may avail himself or herself of the defense only where he or she reasonably believes, based on the attendant circumstances, that the person defended is without fault in provoking the fray. Foster v. Commonwealth, 13 Va. App. 380, 386, 412 S.E.2d 198, ___ (1991)"

There is also varied opinion as to whether the "castle doctrine" applies in the Commonwealth. In effect the "castle doctrine" allows for use of deadly force to prevent agression (armed or unarmed) against your house and property with no legal requirement for retreat.

But like I said, I am going to err on the side of protecting my family and neighbors. Hopefully a jury would see it the same way I did.

 

Thanks for the response VW', excellent information. I was trying to remember the phrase "castle doctrine" last night.

So has there been any developments? This incident is pretty scary, even if it was just "dumb teenagers".

 

boomer: so you'd let some kids break into your house and murder your wife because you are too afraid to "shoot some kids"?

i was a cop for 3 years before i got tired of being broke and got a job in the private sector, but I came across lots of liberal types like you who lash out at police when they arrest a teen for doing something stupid just like what is being talked about, but then cry and whine that the police arent doing their jobs when the same teen breaks into their house and rapes their daughter, or worse...

either you defend yourself or you're a victim. you sound like the latter. i sure hope your family doesn't suffer harm from your naivity.

and good job for bringing politics into something that has no place for it. it's funny how you label republicans as 'child killers' when our nations bloodiest war, that saw troops of 12 years old and under killed, was started when the democrats decided that they wanted to cede from the union among other things to protect their 'right' to own slaves. couple that with their love of abortion, and you've got a party full of baby killers mascarading itself as the party of 'peace'. but i guess they left all that information out when they brainwashed you.

 

Nothing new yet. The sherrifs dept. said they would be stepping up patrols in the area and a deputy told my neighbor that there are some bottle rockets that sound exactly like a handgun. We never found any evidence of either fireworks or any spent rounds. Hopefully it was just some idiot teenagers and they don't try something this stupid again.

I am also happy to report that the neighbors dog is home and doing well.

 

No, but I'm not going to be all macho gung-ho and bust out of my house blazing to "save the neighbors". You have to think things through first. I see a bunch of circumstances where people with guns have killed their own family/neighbors due to not thinking before acting. I have *no* problem arresting the misguided youth who are causing problems. Put em in jail and let them think about the stupid stuff they've done.

The democratic party from 150 years ago is not the same as it is today. You should read up on american history. If you did that, you would realize that the Democratic party split from the southern slave-owners (whose ancestors are now for some reason... oh yeah, republicans).

You are calling me and other democrats "naive", but you state that we love abortion. I guess you've shown that you are brainwashed yourself. Democrats don't love abortion, they support the right of women to have control over their bodies. I'm not pro-abortion, but I'm definately not for the christian right to have control over my body. I'm definately for women and men thinking before they bring a child into this world. You would think that birth control would be a good solution, but the christian right (majority of Catholics, etc.) sees that as a sin... I would know.. I married a catholic and had to take their rediculous classes about how to have sex before I got married)

Like george carlin says, republicans want live babies so they can grow up to be dead soldiers. It's hard to discount that view when you see the current situation in Iraq and the nation-building we're doing there, totally unrelated to the attacks we saw on 9/11.

On a side note, I've known a bunch of police officers in my life (some in my own family), and they for the most part are racist... I guess because they see the bad side of populations and then blanket-judge the whole race over the actions of a few.

Regardless of all this, I support our troops without a second thought. But I definately do not support the current administration and their policies. Some are good, but the majority are bad, IMHO.

Since you're an ex-cop, and have seen alot of gun violence.... Do you support tighter regulation on guns, especially pistols, etc, that get used in the majority of crimes? If you look at canada and european countries, you see that they do not have nearly the amount of crime as we have here.... what are your thoughts?

 

Boomer you are right on the Democratic party not being the same. I grew up Democrat and somewhere, sometime, they have lost their way.

I ride both sides of the fence on the abortion issue, and wont succom to the flippant comment about Republicans wanting them to grow up to be soldiers. But its a hard issue to reconcile when you are a Christian and you believe every life is precious one of Gods children.

I also think your vast generalization that police officers are racist is more than a bit telling. Do you think black police officers are racist? These people are out on the front lines protecting and serving the community and its a very tough job. Noted that there are bad apples, but thats true in every walk of life.

Also think through your thoughts on gun control, and citing examples of Canada and European countries is a very slippery slope. As Thomas Jefferson said "pity the person who gives up freedom for security for in the end they will lose both..."

 

So, in your potential haste to cap a few teenagers, you shoot and miss. Where do the rounds go? Alot of innocent people are wounded or killed by errant gunfire.

Now, if you have a shotgun that won't go through walls as easily as as most handguns....