School Budget Discussion

Re: School Boundaries

So your saying that the building is nothing more than a attempt to feed
their ego? Did he name the building after himself? I guess I missed that one.

What I don't buy was the cost of the old building rev. I'm sorry but I totally
disagree about that old building in Leesburg. It would have needed
much more than $6mill to make it usable.

It was an old rat-trap fire hazard. Plus, while the rework took place they
would have had to lease some other location(s) at 2005 inflated rental rates.
If this happened, you would have been scream just as you are now
about how that project went over budget. At the end you would have had
an ugly patched up out-of-date building, probably still too small for what
we need.

I do however believe what you say about parent involvement. Yes, this
area is great about parents helping out in every way and that's great.
But without digressing into the a sociology debate, there also the parental
expectation of success instilled into the kids by the parents at an early
age.

We live in the second or third most affluent county in the entire nation
and we always want to go "on the cheap" for everything. I'm not
arguing for personal masseuse for each classroom, but the high-tech
education components, like the whiteboard and such, are how we capture
our kids attention these days.

We are not "little Loudoun" anymore. we are in the big leagues.
I think we need to recognize that.

 

Re: School Boundaries

The admin building is an excellent use of space and tax money.

Regardless of what Cliff says the previous North Street building was and still is a dinosaur and was totally inadequate for a staff that now supports over 57,000 kids. Did you ever see the computer wiring in that building? It looked like they were trying to wire a 1940s submarine with a full computer network. Try drilling holes in that bulk head for conduit. It was impossible to run wire within the walls of the old school. Boiler rooms were turned into offices, hallways were used for storage. Additionally, they didn't have enough room for all the staff and it was spread out into multiple locations throughout the County. The gym, which was smaller than today's elementary school gyms, was turned into the public board room. Cheap paneling from the 70s on the walls, plastic chairs for observers. Parking was a nightmare. The entire thing had outgrown it's usefulness.

The North Street building was the former Leesburg High School. The daggone thing was built pre-world war II.

The LCPS moved into the North Street (former Leesburg High School) in 1971, at that time LCPS had 25 schools, 10,289 students, no kindergarten or many of the programs it now has.

Today LCPS has 57,000 students, and 75 schools. To make an argument that LCPS didn't need an admin building is ridiculous.

Additionally, the argument that LCPS is top heavy with Admin is totally untrue. There are 5,100 teachers in Loudoun County, supported by 350 administrators. That seems to be a very reasonable ratio to me.

For real insight look at this third party report: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/wabe/index.htm

Look for the FY 2009 report on the linked page.

You'll see in the report related to other school systems in our area, Loudoun ranks as a top performer in efficiency of teachers vs admin.

It is a myth that Loudoun County is top heavy in admin.

 

Re: School Boundaries

I realize that this is simplistic as there are more duties than just supporting the teachers...

HOWEVER, that would be ONE administrator for just about every 15 teachers. That is too high a ratio in my opinion.

A teachers most demanding job outside of teaching is developing the lesson plan. I doubt that the adminstrators help with this.

 

Re: School Boundaries

Here, here! I agree with you on all points.

Once and while we have to thank people for their service and not assume
that they are in it for their own personal glory. Loudoun has done
an amazing job in keeping up with the growth over the past decade.

If you want an example of how bad it could have been, just visit Fairfax
and the lack of planning there. They finished Westfields HS and
immediately had to plant a dozen trailers along side the school!!!

My son had to go through his first three years of elementary with
buckets to catch the water leaking from the roofs during the winter.

Instead of just immediately jumping down the throats of elected officals,
take time to give them credit ... just once and a while.

 

Re: School Boundaries

T8erman, I am not a school administrator, so frankly, I am not sure who is closer to the truth you or me.

What does provide solid insight is the report I referenced. In comparison to other regional school jurisdictions LCPS shows extremely well. Especially when it comes to the efficient use of tax dollars on administration costs.

The report also shows that Loudoun is frugal when it comes to teacher salaries. If you listen to some of the rhetoric you would have thought we were giving gold plated contracts out. Not the case, check the data, and compare it to others in this region.

The real question that needs to be debated is what are we going to accept from the cuts that are coming. These budget cuts are going to impact what Loudoun County students experience in school. That's were the debate should be. I believe Hatrick has presented a good foundation for that debate.

 

Re: School Boundaries

I am impressed VACLIFF - how much volunteer work did you do in your child's school?

 

Re: School Boundaries

T8erman, page 33 lists 283 admin personnel, but also lists a bunch of non-admin personnel, probably close to 1,000 positions. This looks to be a much better breakdown on what non teaching positions are funded in LCPS. The number I used above was from the LCPS website. It didn't say what they defined as Admin on the website. The report has more detail.

 

Re: School Boundaries

Cliff-

I wish you would bring this frugal and fiscally responsible mindset to the HOA. It would be much more appreciated there.

 

Re: School Boundaries

So I guess you are seeing the School Board as incompetent in knowing how much they needed to fix the building? That instills confidence.

Glad we agree about parental involvement.

Glad you're proud of Loudoun's affluence. Do you want to pay part of my tax bill for me? My taxes are anything BUT "on the cheap." If your definition of being in the big leagues is ignoring spending, spending millions of dollars on unneeded equipment to "capture our kids attention", then I doubt we will come to any agreement.

 

Re: School Boundaries

I spend a LOT of my time doing volunteer work. Let's see....HOA (Board member and Modification Committee member), County FSM, Loudoun Library Foundation, Boy Scouts, some at the schools, and my wife has served in many, many volunteer functions at Hillside, Mill Run, and Eagle Ridge.
I think my family is covered. How about yours?

 

Re: School Boundaries

Did you notice your HOA fees did not go up this year?
Please review our budget and let me know where you think more cuts should be made. Also compare our HOA fees to surrounding communities.
I'll await your thoughtful analysis.

 

Re: School Boundaries

Our family is covered as well. With a master's in education, I volunteer by tutoring, initiating and facilitating after school programs, one-on-one work with students in the classroom, and anywhere the teachers feel they could use extra help. Volunteer work in our schools is essential to the success of our children.

 

Re: School Boundaries

Part of leadership is making an unpopular decision when you know it's the
best thing to do. In that light, the new building was correct in my
eyes, but not in yours.

Did I use the word "proud" of being affluent? We have the money resources
and volunteer help to survive this downswing and we should step up and
help.

Maybe in your eyes it should be all volunteer, but I think we can afford it.
... you simply choose not to.

And yes, technology in learning IS THE FUTURE!!! Introduction on all levels
will be welcomed by teachers and students.

 

Re: School Boundaries

I have a question about bussing. Why do kids who live a block and a half from an elementary school ride a bus? I see this in Lansdowne for Seldens Landing Elementary School but I'm sure it happens elsewhere. I thought buses were for kids who live like 5 miles from the school but I really don't know. I just know I'm surprised that the bus is an option for my child's elementary school, which according to Google, is .9 miles from our house. Are parents not allowed to drive their kids to school anymore? And I don't mean that sarcastically; I really want to know what the rationale is.

The bus issue is a place where money might be saved.

 

Re: School Boundaries

I think if you are over a mile, there are no sidewalks, or there is a major road to cross, they bus the kids. I do know that there are a lot of "walkers" in the hillside area that have parents drive to and from school.

It is a traffic jam everyday by the school. I know when I was in elementary school I walked about a mile to and from schools in Herndon and Reston. I think the schools are very concerend for children's safety now and don't want to be liable for anything that may happen.

Now, I do think it is insane that they even offer a bus for kindergarteners that live directly across the street from the school; I am not kidding. I do think that parents can have enough responsibility to walk their child the extra 25 feet to the school than have to have a bus. That is just my opinion.

 

Re: School Boundaries

Sorry Mr. Linux, I'm not going to crawl into your bait box. I think Cliff does a fine job with the HOA and I appreciate all of his hard work and effort. Please don't hijack this thread, it's too important.

 

Re: School Boundaries

Just because you can "afford" something doesn't mean you should always spend the money on it. This behavior is a large reason why our economy sucks right now.

 

Re: School Boundaries

All kindergartners get a bus to and from Mill Run. I suppose this is a Loudoun issue, but I can't be sure as my only experience is Mill Run. 1st graders on up can then become walkers at a certain distance.

I was told (so someone correct me if necessary) that at Stone Hollow, I believe, used be the line where they were expected to become walkers. Up the hill on Ridgeway was a mile away from the school so there was a bus provided for those kids. Well, folks around that line weren't too happy about sending their 1st graders walking in the dark to school (which I can understand) so some drove them up to the busstops to put them on (what then became an over-crowded bus) or drove them to school creating massive traffic issues. Therefore it was decided to add a few busses to this area to alleviate some of those issues.

 

Re: School Boundaries

We're in agreement here!