So we can't call them CHRISTMAS trees anymore?

Please tell me who gets to decide the definition of what a "right" is. Oh, that's right, that would be YOU! And if I didn't agree with your belief that something is someone's right, then you would label me "intolerant."

Some people believe that free healthcare is a "right" that should be guaranteed or provided by the government. Sounds sweet and compassionate. I don't believe that is a "right" guaranteed by the government. Does that mean I am intolerant of those who don't have health insurance and want to "exclude" them from their "right"?

The fact is that YOU are wanting to take away or give away rights...but it's okay because it's YOU doing it.

 

Really? Um, I believe one of the first recorded murders stemmed from jealousy. Many wars "from the beginning of time" resulted from greed, selfishness, fear, the thrill of conquest and many other reasons. So I think you're choking a bit on your all out love for tolerance.

Can you tell me why radical Islamic terrorists want to destroy us? Is it intolerance? Maybe so, but I await your wisdom.

I have to confess. I do not respect and am not tolerant of the views of Islamic terrorists. I want to take away their right to live on this earth. Does that make me intolerant and bad? Do we need to just "understand" them better so they won't hate us? Do we need to make sure we don't do anything to "offend" Islamic terrorists so they won't attack us anymore?

 

Who fed you this childish notion? Is this what they teach all kids in school now?! Of course I don't respect ALL views that are different from mine.

Some men think it is okay to lure kids into sexual encounters. I don't respect that view.

Some people feel that adultery is perfectly okay, because it's between two consenting adults who may "love" each other. I don't respect that view. It doesn't mean I want to lock people up for this and return to the days of the scarlet A. But don't ask me to respect things I consider personally immoral.

I do selfish things, and don't respect my own actions when I act contrary to my own beliefs and desires!

Let me ask you a question. If I believe that committing homosexual acts is immoral--even though I don't think we should legislate against it and definitely don't believe in bashing people who do it--does that make me intolerant because I don't respect their view that it's okay?

If I believe that abortion is ending a human life and think that couples shouldn't choose that option, does that make me intolerant?

 

They do so by advocating the federal medicaid funding of abortion on demand. The goal of NOW is that federal income tax be spent on abortions. That does exclude a woman who is pro-life from their goals. It would require her to fund what she believes is murder.

 

I'm sorry I missed all the fun around here.

 

No. Let me be very clear. Allowing the term "Chistmas" to be used does not equal intolerance. My original post, which is now moot since Lowe's has said the ad was a mistake, was outrage that a major retailer felt the need to further sanitize anything remotely religious about December 25th.

Our society is all about the Christians being 'tolerant' of those who don't share their beliefs, and apparently the only way to do that is to santitize everything and not speak a word of it outside one's church or one's home. Yet it's perfectly acceptable for a major public university to spend taxpayer dollars to install footwash basins for their muslim population. Nobody is crying that this was intolerant to all non-muslims.

Again, to me 'tolerance' is a live and let live thing. Not a sanitize anything and everything because it may offend someone out there thing.

 

you said it sharse!! applause applause!!!!

 

Sorry to drag this back up, I'm just getting caught up on the fora... but that comment struck a bad chord with me. I've been confronted by Christians who think I have no clue what Christmas is all about because I identify myself as Jewish. I've never had such an experience from people who practice any other religion. I know such Christians are not the representatives of the whole religion, but they sure do act like they are.

Perhaps you mean "when", not "that"? that at least makes some sense.... Why would a non-Christian have any real understanding of something that is not a part of their religious teachings? Sure, some (like me) do, having been raised in both religions as my parents were different religions.

Do you have a real understanding of what Eid or Hanukkah truly mean (for example)? Should the hearts of Muslims and Jews break for you, if you don't? Not just you, but any Christian whose heart breaks when a non-Christian doesn't understand the true meaning of Christmas.

- A

PS. Apropos not of this part of the thread but another, if Jesus comes back today, he'd probably still be Jewish. So, no, he probably wouldn't put up a Christmas tree... and Christians probably would not crucify him for failing to do so. Geez, people. :/

 

Agreed!

Heck, I'm Jewish, and I don't care if people even wish me a Merry Christmas! Really, why be upset about this? It's the thought that counts.

And adding to the list of holidays to greet people for, don't forget Happy Agnostica.

- A

 

Agree with you totally. My heart doesn't break for those who don't understand Christmas (it's a secular holiday!), though it would be appropriate for a Christian to say they wish others knew the peace or grace of knowing Christ.

I have had many Jewish friends and have tried to learn more about Jewish tradition, because I find so much I admire from the religion (and because so much of Jewish tradition forms the foundation for Christianity). Besides, Christmas has very little to do with Christianity inherently. It's a secular holiday that we have ADDED Christian meaning to, but there's certainly nothing Scriptural about it in any sense. I think it's more of a more emotional, traditional holiday that I absolutely love--the lights, the music, the more cheerful mood, the snow and tree and gift giving, etc. But it's not like the commemoration of Passover or the resurrection of Christ.

 

Lowes can spin their marketing however they want, back to my original point they call it a holiday tree to sell it to more than just Christmas celebrating folk.......... This is not them "not wanting to say christmas" this is them trying to expand the market for these trees

 

So for once I agree with you. It is indeed secular and in fact pagan. It had nothing to do with the birth of Christ. Christ wasn't even born in our calendar December.

But I believe people, regardless of race or religion, should celebrate as they wish with all the merchandising hype included. Is it any wonder that depression skyrockets at this time of year?

Personally, my favorite holiday is Thanksgiving. Family get togethers and no expectations.

 

Finally, you are seeing the light See, it's just like global climate crisis alarmism, a secular religion! You make things up to support your worldview and add meaning to it.

I actually do love Christmas, but agree there is more "pressure." Thanksgiving is great because of family...and a focus on giving thanks, never a bad thing.

 

I think it’s a matter of semantics. Christmas means a “mass” or “festival” of Christ. If you don’t believe in Christ, you can’t have a real understanding of the true meaning of Christmas. “If Jesus is not Christ in your life, celebrating the birth of an obscure Jewish carpenter’s son is meaningless to you.” (Hank Hannegraaf)

Christmas is when I celebrate God’s fulfillment of His promise to send a Savior, Jesus, whose name is Immanuel, “God with us”. While the date was decided by the church centuries ago (perhaps as a way to challenge the pagan winter holiday), it is still a time when I celebrate the miraculous and glorious gift of love that Jesus Christ was and is. I am deeply saddened that some people don’t know or accept this gift.

And no, I don’t have a real understanding of Eid or Hanukkah, but then again, I don’t have a pseudo-Eid or Hanukkah celebration like so many people have a pseudo-CHRISTmas celebration.

 

Oh, there's nothing made up about it. The act of giving and/or exchanging gifts was to help the merchants. Nothing more.

On another note - our family sat and watched Fiddler on the Roof after our Thanksgiving meal - a very sad but true story. No hitting the malls for us.

 

Silence,
The resurrection of Christ was only made possible through the birth of Christ.

In lots of ways, I think it's unfortunate that the early church decided to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25, so close to the pagan holiday of Saturnalia. However, whether it's December 25 or March 10 or any other date, Christmas has very special meaning TO ME that is much more than family fellowship, fun, joy, peace, etc. While these are all worthy ideals, TO ME they would be empty without Christ.

I really enjoyed reading what Hank Hannegraaf (a Christian apologist) has to say in "Christ in Christmas":
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2886753/k.B073/DC336.htm

 

Or perhaps even more meaningful is to celebrate and be grateful for forgiveness of sins and a relationship with Christ every day

I wouldn't worry so much or denigrate others for how they choose to celebrate Christmas or not.

 

The point is that it's a man-made holiday, a tradition adopted by the church. It wasn't instituted by God as Passover or even Communion was.

 

Absolutely agree...

EXCEPT for that denigrate part ...I don't think I was denigrating others or how they celebrate Christmas. My posts started when somebody asked what would Christians do if Christ came back as an atheist. I couldn't just read that and not share how wrong I felt that comment was. Everything else just kind of...blossomed...from there.

 

This is what I meant about denigrating others by calling their celebration a pseudo-celebration...you never know what is in people's hearts.