Open Political Discourse

Actually Chris, Strom (who was never a Klansman) made his name as a Democrat. I believe he was in his sixties before he became a Republican. And I've never seen or heard clips of him "talking about how he hated black people." Even in his Democrat days. But with your command of the facts, I'm sure you'll produce one ASAP. Now we can talk Byrd. You of course recall the recent Lisa Myers interview in which the distinguished Senator twice used the "N-word." You can look it up for the precise statements, but it went something like this: "I've known a lot of white 'n-words' in my day, if I can borrow that term from my youth." Lisa, I guess, didn't seem to think it warranted a follow up question, so we don't really know what he meant. But I suspect he was thinking that he knows some white people who are such a low life form that, doggone it, they're not even worthy of being called white. Why, they're nothing more than the blacks. (or as he referred to them back when he was fighting against integrating the troops: "the darkest of the mongrel species."). He is a disgusting human being. But even though his party embraces him as one of their greatest leaders, I wouldn't accuse all Democrats of being racists.

I am certainly a Republican, and have consistently voted for Republicans for twenty years. But unlike you Chris, I don't hate the opposition, they don't "make me puke", and I don't lie about them. I just think they're wrong.

 

Amen Brooks5 Amen

 

Chris, you better quit while you're only WAY behind. I, for one, would hate to see this turn into a slaughter!

 

Brilliant post! Kudos.

 

Brooks5: It is so great to see you eagerly defending Strom. For your second act, will you start defending Texans who drag non-whites from behind their trucks? Will you also defend other Republicans like David Duke? Maybe you will also defend the Republican Pat Robertson who said that America deserved the vile 9-11 attacks for giving women rights and for allowing homosexuals the right to breathe?

My point here is that all of you who give your votes and cash to the Republican party are supporting the repression of individual freedoms by associating yourselves with individuals and groups who do not value true American values, such as liberty and justice for all.

 

I am really beginning to think there are a few "trolls" in these forums who simply will make radical, unreasonable statements just for the sake of attention. I won't mention any names (I am not launching any personal attacks) but, these "trolls" are on both sides of the political spectrum. It's like being stuck in a room with Rush Limbaugh and Al Franken.

 

I'd like to see that match up.

 

An interesting read for everyone, and especially for those that still support the current administration after their fiasco in Iraq is Hans Blix's "Disarming Iraq". It has some excellent insights on the ways that information was "made to fit the agenda".

Marianne

 

Please, Hans Blix is hardly an impartial objective observer. TO be honest it doesn't matter one bit whether the international community agrees with or supports our invasion of Iraq, or any of our foreign or domestic policy for that matter.

Goining into Iraq was the right thing for America reagrdless of whether we find the WMD's (they were there at one point) or if there was a direct link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda. Defeating Saddam and establishing a foothold for democracy in the middle east has farther reaching effects than just elimiating Iraq as a threat to our own security. If you have paid attention to the news immediately after we toppled the statue of Saddam in Baghdad:

• Libya admitted to the Lockerbie bombing and announced to the world they had WMD programs. They then began the destruction of those program and weapons and invited in insepctors.
• Iran came clean on their Nuclear program
• Syria began cooperating with the US sealing their border to prevent the escape of the Baathist party and Saddam's Fedayen. They also turned over to the US several Iraqis who had already made it acroos the border

There is a portion of Islam that is decicated solely to the destruction of the US simply because we represent freedom and because a large majority of us are Christians. If we do not attack this at the source, which is the ruthless nation states that overtly or covertly support the radical Muslims (I do not mean just terrorists organizations, but the 200 million Muslims that see this as a war between religions) then we all might as well start learning Arabic and reading the Koran. You cannot contain/negotiate/appease people whose only mission in life is to kill you and destroy your culture. You have to destroy them.

 

Another excellent book I can recommend for those that feel that Islam is about killing Christians is the Koran. Or, since that is kinda heavy reading, maybe the "Dummies guide to the Koran".

Marianne

 

Marianne: Could you post some of your favorite sections? Long ago, I swore off organized religion because far too many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christ, Allah, Yahweh, etc. -- I just can't bring myself to crack open any book that proselytizes.

 

VW: This type of viewpoint is so Dubya. Why don't you type what you really mean, and just come out with it and say that only America counts so to heck with the rest of the world including our allies!?! Maybe you would support bombing Europe for not supporting the invasion of Iraq? Maybe you would say that Madrid got what it deserved on March 11 like Pat Robertson and some other Republicans said about the U.S. on September 11?

 

chris,

What's with the Pat Robertson obsession? And you keep forgetting Jerry Falwell. Doesn't the Christian-bashing script call for them always to be mentioned together? As a compassionate conservative, I really do feel for you during your desperate struggle to come up with examples to support your foolish little statements, but seriously, you need to come up with some new material.

 

You have no idea how angry I am at your cavalier use of 9/11 as an as hominin attack on me. I lost 2 friends in the WTC.

What Republicans said that the US got what it deserved? Other than Pat Robertson (who is prone to bouts of stupidity) can you name one? That is a ridiculous statement. In fact I remeber that there were many Democrats who said that we brought 9/11 on ourselves because of our foreign policy. There are also some members of the Democratic Party who still state publicly that they believe Israel was behind 9/11. Try and get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off again.

What happened in Madrid was horrible and is an example of why we need to continue to combat terrorism at its source. Like it or not the source of terrorism is the radical element of Islam in the Middle East and Africa. Iraq is just the beginning of the real war on terrorism. Unless of course Kerry wins. Then we will go back to the policies of the Clinton years where we did not respond adequately to terrorist attacks.

Do our allies count? Of course they do, but what is best for America has to come first. I do seem to remember that Britain, Japan, Australia, Turkey, Pakistan, and others supported and in some cases participated in the invasion of Iraq. France and Germany ceased to be allies in more than name years ago.

By the rest of the world I assume you are referring to the UN. I am sure that my next statement will result in more attacks from you, but the UN is irrelevant. It is a collection of petty diplomats who are bitter about the fact that America is the most powerful nation in the history of the world. Didn't the UN recently appoint Syria as the chair of the UN Human Rights Commission? Yeah we really ought to be taking advice and consent from them. So yes I don't care if Russia or France or whoever opposes our policies and yes I think that when it comes to protecting the future of America and what we stand for we need not ask permission from anyone.

 

You're speaking my language, vweisenburg.

 

By the way, chris, before you start accusing me of "eagerly defending" Pat Robertson, I'd like to make my point using a little more serious tone. For Pat Robertson, or anyone else, to suggest that our cultural problems invited the 9/11 attacks is an obvious display of stupidity and insensitivity. There are probably some people who agree with him, but if you seriously think that his view is prevalent among Christians or Republicans, then you have even bigger issues than those evidenced through these forums. Your broad accusations about "people like me" or vw generally amuse me. But in my opinion, to make such an accusation against any fellow American in the context of 9/11 is just plain offensive.

 

Brooks5: Your own rhetoric belies your right-wing beliefs. For example, you state the following above "For Pat Robertson, or anyone else, to suggest that our cultural problems</u> invited the 9/11 attacks is an obvious display of stupidity and insensitivity. (Emphasis Added)." What cultural problems are you referring to? You mention Pat Roberston, so are you referring to what he and some other members of his party (remember he was one of your candidates once) said caused 9-11? Those reasons were, of course, fair and equal rights for anyone in the country is not white, straight, and male?

Also, you state, "There are probably some people who agree with him, but if you seriously think that his view is prevalent among Christians or Republicans, then you have even bigger issues than those evidenced through these forums."

The leader of your party (Is that Bush or Cheney? I can't recall.) did not kick Pat Robertson out of the GOP for his comments. So, he must have agreed with them on some level. Also, if you don't agree with his comments, are you calling for Pat Robertson and the other fundamentalist extremists to be tossed out on their ears?

VW: You say, "the UN is irrelevant." Now that is a radical statement. Why don't you carry that statement a few steps further and say: "Let's close off all our borders, toss out everyone whose butt ain't lilly white, and kneel down before [insert name of whatever idol you praise] to pray 7 days a week?

 

Chris,
I for one would love to hear your opinion on why the 9-11 attacks took place. I would also love to hear your theory of how to end the world wide al-Qaida threat.

 

Chris, I have to give you credit for being remarkably consistent. Again with the over-the-top accusations. Your diatribes on these forums are the adult equivalent of the schoolyard comeback "So's your Mom". There just isn't any substance to them.

Hmm.. because I think the UN is a corrupt, anti-semitic, and anti-American collection of thugs and criminals, I must also be a racist and a bigot. Since you assume that I want to toss out everyone who isn't "lily white" you must also assume that I am "lily white" as well. Oops, your mistake, I just happen to be a mix of German, French, and Native American and probably African American. How's that foot taste?

I don't care what god anyone worships or if they worship at all. That is what is great about this country. Unlike 70% of the countries in the precious UN you seem to admire so much. Can you tell me exactly wher in the consitution it directs either the president or congress to ask the world community for permission before we undertake actions for the good of our nation. I must've missed that in Government class. Then again, I might've been at a militia meeting during that class

 

OP: I believe that the root cause of 9-11 was the preaching of religious intolerance. In any form, this is dangerous--regardless of which religion the extremism is attached to. One form is radical Christian churches teaching that (1) slavery is an acceptable Biblically-sanctioned practice, (2) women are inferior to men, and (3) certain citizens should be deprived of inalienable human rights due to some perceived or real trait. Another form is radical Islam that calls for the elimination of infidels. While not all Christians or Muslims subscribe to these beliefs, the ones who do are dangerous. (Personally, I have a strong spritual belief in our Creator, but I don't associate myself with any organized doctrine or dogma.)

As for ending the world-wide threat of aQ, minds more brilliant than mine have not solved that question. However, the 600+ American troops and the countless civilians that Bush has ordered to their deaths in Iraq have done nothing to improve our safety. Heck! The POTUS has squandered $120 billion (based on Bush's own math, and we know he lied about the cost of Medicare, so he probably has lied here, too!!!) on securing Iraq's oil, and we still are paying more for gas than we did under Clinton!