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User Brim and the forums

Discussion in 'Forum rules and information' started by hornerjo, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    You sure are a big internet tough guy.

    I was saying your actions were censorship. I pointed out that censorship is embraced by communist societies. Read into that what you will.

    Anyways, why do you keep challenging me to show up at a meeting to discuss a post on a forum? That's ridiculous... I have much better things to do when I get home than go to an actual meeting to discuss this.

    And, here is what you deny above about never saying to not mention brim:

    [quote removed at posters request, we respect the privacy of all members and private message are private and can be removed on request of sender.]

    Regardless, this is silly. You go ahead and bring your printouts to the meeting and discuss it. My opinion still stands that 'muting' brim without warning or notifying him was the wrong decision. I'm sorry if you or others were offended, but I was offended as well and am just standing up for what I believe is right.
     
  2. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Your taking it out of context boomer. The key point there is 'one more post...' because this was after you continually started threads after they were removed. You were suspended over that activity, not mentioning brim or not. Case closed.
     
  3. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    Case closed? The posts were about brim getting censored, and I was censored too, for providing an opinion in those posts that were almost immediately deleted. Yet now somehow it is ok to talk about brim getting muted.

    Initially I thought something was wrong with the site, so I posted in another forum. But then I caught on that hornerjo was trolling for my posts and deleting them.

    You guys were wrong for what you did.
     
  4. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Exactly, you knew what you were doing, and intentionally were trying to ignore the admin and trying to 'beat him' creating more and more threads. That's the issue, and you knew exactly what you were doing. That's why I said 'case closed'. I don't care what the topic was. Unless you want to claim you didn't create all those threads or you didn't know they were being removed (both of which are obvious) then there is no debate.

    The reason this thread exists now is I argued that there should be a medium where the question of brim could be discussed. John also reviewed existing text and saw we didn't specifically have something written about discussing moderation and since we knew it would come up, he started this thread (and put specifically in the first post of this thread text about this).

    We aren't hiding anything, its just not healthy to have a fire-fight everyone on the forum so any discussion on the topic has a place and a time.. this is that place.

    Are we going to start a thread everytime something gets moderated? No, but if it comes up, we'll keep it contained to a specific thread/discussion. We're not going to let someone instigate by throwing the topic around the forum everywhere.
     
  5. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    You know folks, this is all getting ridiculous. I would like to propose the following rule for the Tech committee to consider:

    There will be NO discussion on these Forums about any action (suspension, removal, muting, etc) taken against a user. That issue is between that individual, the Tech Committee, and the HOA Board, period.

    Any one else's opinions are irrelevant to the action taken. If other folks have issues with the rules, then that can be brought up to the Tech Committee or HOA Board.

    Do you think that's censorship? Too bad. As I've said before no one has the RIGHT to anything on these Forums. Don't like that? Feel free to stop using the Forums.

    Just my opinion.......I could be wrong.
     
  6. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    You're wrong, again. I posted my initial complaint in this forum and it didn't show up, so I went to community discussion and posted it, then found out horner had been deleting them. I then posted a poll asking for opinions on the brim action and it was deleted. I then posted a generic poll with no specific names in it and it was also deleted.

    Regardless, there would have only been one post if it hadn't been deleted.

    Cliff, the forum is for community issues. I don't see how discussing a community issue (seeing as apparently it was decided in an actual HOA meeting!) should be against the rules, especially since everyone obviously doesn't go to HOA meetings.

    I also think that some of the TC/HOA are leaning too heavily on the "no rights and no freedom of speech" crutch. Sure, the rule is good for prevention of discussion of illegal things, etc, but not for a benignant discussion of a user having been muted.
     
  7. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    This is the only relevant point. You found out the admin had been deleting them, and then you continued knowing that (and you left out the email part). That is why action was taken against your account. My last comment on the subject. If you want to discuss it further, you've been given options to discuss it with the committee or board.
     
  8. hornerjo

    hornerjo Senior Member

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    Boomer if you bothered to check, I sent you a warning after every deletion. I wasn't 'on a witch hunt out to get you'.
     
  9. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Cliff, my opinion (just my opinion.. from doing this for a long time on other forums) on the subject is the actions themselves should be 'offline', and any follow-up questions between the admins and the affected party should be offline.

    However, I don't believe questions around it should not be allowed across the board. People don't like being in the dark. People should be able to use the medium we use to communicate all the time. That being said, arguing or debating the elements of the action aren't open game. You want to know what happened - here's what happened. Instigating all over the forum, dropping backhanded remarks about actions in other threads, etc - not tolerable. Want to argue its not fair, argue it wasn't this, but that, 'bring back sparky!', blah blah blah... come to the appropriate forum to discuss that. That is the regular meetings of the committee, and escalation to the board if you are not satisfied with resolution with the committee. That is the format used for other areas (like modifications, etc) I don't see why this should be different.

    That's my .02 on the topic. We've obviously been discussing this within the comittee as well. We can start a new thread on this if you like.. but I couldn't do so in a method that copied your post without moving it from this thread, so I didn't move it.
     
  10. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    I don't see discussing the issues about a specific person a "community issue."
    Do you feel that the HOA should post all information about residents who have had their priveleges suspended, been fined or had accounts sent to our attorney for collection? I don't think so.

    I've seen the posts you attempted to submit. I fully support the Tech Committee's decision to delete them. They were inappropriate. If you consider that censorship and an infringement on your rights, well....too bad.
     
  11. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    Stating a fact that the USSR dealt in censorship is inappropriate? I used a powerful point to state my opinion. Regardless, in the subsequent posts, there was no mention of commies, yet those were deleted as well.

    Anyways, I'm over it... I hope you guys reinstate brim's account. That is my main beef.
     
  12. GCyr

    GCyr New Member

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    I second the motion -- this thread has gone on too long already!

     
  13. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    My humble opinion. Censor yourself and put the ignore filter on. That's what I do when I don't find the ability to avoid a thread or an individual on my own.
     
  14. boomertsfx

    boomertsfx Booyakasha!

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    Agreed, that's one of the features the TC touted when moving from the old software I think. If this was told to the complainers (or if they looked at the options theirselves) who felt brim (or anyone) was a pest, this whole situation would have never come up. I've never had an issue with anything in the Broadlands or the TC up until the recent events. I'm sure there will be an amicable solution =)
     
  15. lilpea

    lilpea Member

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    Boomer, Let me first state I am not on the TC. If I remember correctly, (but the TC folks will have to confirm)...Brim was one of the highest users on member's ignore list, so I think some users know how to enable this function. As a resident, I am really surprised with the lack of respect some of your post convey, these forums are a privilage, not a RIGHT. The TC members VOLUNTEER their time and other resources to keep this up and running. You've stated your position, so why do you keep coming back to this thread and stir....stir...stir. I am very much looking forward to seeing you and Homer's posse of 10 tonight.
     
  16. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Pea: We pay with this with dues. It IS a right unless you become a HOA Felon like Chris [like that stopped her anyway]. Otherwise shut the forums down.

    TC: If you thin 32 posts is loving the fourms you should see my SWGforum post count. I mainly just look to see whats going on with the neighborhood. I really don't want to get involved. This issue is a sore point.
     
  17. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    For the last time, Homer, access to these forums is a PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT. That was iterated to you directly from the President of the Broadlands HOA. Why do you keep making statements that folks, including representatives of the HOA itself, have repeatidly told you was wrong/inaccurate? This very point was even reiterated at tonight's HOA meeting. Please, if you have issues with this fact, talk to the HOA and stop posting your personal opinion as fact regarding this point.
     
  18. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    This evening, myself, Hornerjo and Flynnibus (the 3 admins/moderators of the forums and TC members) attended the monthly HOA meeting. Here is the outcome of what happened during the portion of the meeting related to the forums:
    1. Boomertsfx was present and provided some constructive comments. The TC then met personally with Boomertsfx and I believe that I can safely say we are all on the same 'page' now. Both sides shook hands and listened to each other's concerns and apologized. Boomertsfx, if I'm incorrect here, please contact me so that we can make sure we've resolved our differences.
    2. The issue regarding Brim's 'muting' was brought up. A few users/residents came by in support of keeping Brim out of the forums. I believe 2 users were present in support of Brim, including Boomertsfx. While a few people at the meeting made it clear to the Board that they believed Brim should not be reinstated, the HOA President (Cliff), after numerous communications with Brim, indicated that Brim agreed to make his postings less 'inflamatory' and that he should be given a second chance. Brim's account will be 'unmuted' tonight and if he breaks a rule in the future, his account will be terminated immediately.
    3. It was brought up by a developer member of the HOA that we should add more rules to the site. They will be providing the TC a list of rules used on 'stricter' forums in another Van Metre community and we will see how we can integrate the lists into a more robust one in the near future.
    4. The Board reiterated that ALL discussions related to admin actions (suspensions, bans, moderations, etc) be taken offline and not directly discussed on the forums. The forum rules will be revised to make this clearer. The process for users wanting to discuss administrative actions is to contact the moderators/admins/Technology Committee directly and if they do not agree with the reason(s) given to them, they can then contact the HOA and ask to have their issue escalated/resolved by a member of the HOA Board or at a monthly HOA meeting.
    5. On a negative side, the fact that this issue snowballed into what it became today, our forums have gathered a lot more visibility at the Board level, especially on the developer side. It was brought up multiple times by the developer as to why we allow non-Broadlands residents access to the forums. Although resident members of the HOA Board and the TC do NOT agree with closing the forums for access only by residents, since it was now brought up, we must look into how this could be implemented. This is NOT to say it will be implemented; we simply need to look into the possibilty at this time and be able to implement such a restriction in the future if the HOA instructs us to do so.
    6. No residents attending the meeting came to provide the TC and/or the HOA with their issues regarding specific rules of the forums or issues they had with the way the TC is running the forums.
    On behalf of the Technology Committee (TC), I would like to thank everyone (on both sides of the issue) who participated in tonight's discussions. I believe it was constructive and we made good headway to get these recent issues behind us and begin moving us forward again.
     
  19. afgm

    afgm Ashburn Farm Resident

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    Nicely said and summarized Mr. Linux. Sounds like a good meeting and productive.

    A word of advice, take it or leave it...Broadlands is the homeowner's community. The developer is important but should continue to deminish in authority and power. Stretch your legs as a community and blossom on your own. The developer won't be there forever. This thought goes for all issues not just how the forum is run.
     
  20. neilz

    neilz New Member

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    I totally agree with you, sounds like alot was accomplished in a short time. Its amazing what can happen with face-to-face interaction, you can actually find out you do agree on things because you're not whizzing messages past each other, and not seeing what the other person's is actually saying.

    Unfortunately, face-to-face conversation is becoming a lost art, as cellphones & blackberrys, emails & IMs become the standard means of communication.

    :violin:The sun will come out ... tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow ...... :band: .... tomorrow's a day a waaayyyyyy!! :violin:

    Don't get Cliff started on this ... ;)
     

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