Broadlands Medical Facility

Don't now if this will end the debate on the issue, but the Broadlands HOA Board, at the recommendation of the Tech Committee that runs these forums, will continue to allow anyone to register for these forums. If posts become inappropriate, we will look at removing that individual.
Yes, due to anonymity (which I would personally like to see removed) you may get posts from people with obvious ulterior motives, but a lot of good input and different points of view have been brought to the forums from members from outside of Broadlands.
Cliff (speaking with my HOA hat on)

 

NEW DATA POINT: (at least to this forum)

Rod Huebbers, CEO LHC, made $440,000 plus 100,000 in benefits more than a year ago. This amount is double the salaries of the CEOs in tax-paying hospitals, according to the Hay Group, a company that gathers salary information for the Health care industry.

WOW! I guess non-profits are non-profits because all the profits go to the execs!

I guess they have to pay talented people a lot of money to keep up the ruse of "non-profit". After all, "non-profit" means, "we don't have to pay taxes to Loudoun County"!

Anyone remember the estimated tax revenue for Loudoun County when BRMC is built? I think it would be interesting to compare that to ZERO tax revenue from LHC.

 

BS, you know that execs make a ton more than that. 440k is a pittance for CEOs of public companies.

"HCA Inc. increased the salary for Chairman and CEO Jack Bovender Jr. by 8.8 percent last year to $1.1 million and awarded him more than $2 million in restricted stock."

$540k for LHC CEO
$3.1m+ for HCA CEO

Good job with the facts, afgm! Perhaps trying doing a Google search before posting.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2003/04/14/daily11.html
http://www.forbes.com/reuters/newswire/2004/04/13/rtr1331162.html

 

Not my facts, they are Hay Group facts. 540K is a ton of money, for a non tax producing entity.

The compensation of the CEO of HCA is not comparative to what they pay the CEO of one of their hospitals. Make that comparison and you will see the Hay Group is correct.

Boomer: please respond the the tax question. That is a very valid observation.

 

Not sure the comparison in salaries can be looked upon fairly without the comparison in facilities. According to the websites for HCA and Loudoun Healthcare Inc..
“HCA is composed of locally managed facilities that include approximately 191 hospitals and 82 outpatient surgery centers in 23 states, England and Switzerland.”

Loudoun Healthcare, Inc. consists of 6 facilities.

afgm…It is estimated that BRMC would contribute $3-4 million annually in taxes in Loudoun County.

An excerpt from an article that appeared in the USA Today that exrook previously posted stated…
“The IRS is looking at salaries paid to executives and officers of 2,000 of the nation's charities and non-profit foundations, which include hospitals. Salaries deemed "excessive" may violate federal law.”

I wonder if the IRS considers a combined salary and benefits package of more than half a million dollars to be pittance?

 

Wow, looks like a firestorm since last I was here! Pats Fan and Cliff, thank you very much for your posts. I'm glad to have a sense that you think I've been following the rules, and value your comments even more since you disagree with me on this issue (if that makes sense). Dang.Yu.Hyung and SK8R, thanks to you too.

Two things: I've been doing my reading on the various reports, and found something that I had forgotten entirely. The Task Force report that some have discussed, and how it wasn't used/considered? Go to http://easterner.com and click on Content. Past articles from 2002 contains an in-depth piece from the July 31, 2002 issue entitled "Report on health criticized by Black". Before anyone rises up with abortion or something else, read the article. HSANV disavowed the Task Force report, and a lot of interesting people are in the article.

Second: Reading the comments over the past day, one thing that sticks out for me (besides confirmation that I'm following the rules from two people who do not agree with my opinion--thanks again, you guys. Cliff, speaking with your board hat on, is this the policy that was crafted in response to Chris, or has someone specifically complained to your board about me?), is that no one who is upset seems to be responding to the issues I've raised as much as it seems they are responding with dismay to my presence. I can appreciate Dutchml's sense that I'm a nitpickler, but I am acutely aware that I am NOT speaking as an official representative of my community, and therefore hesitate to let misstatements, omissions or asssumptions stand. I see Cliff's point about anonymity, but I also saw AFGM's about removing any cross-polllenation between official and personal participation in activities. I am here personally, grateful for the privilege, and speaking for no one but me. Now, who's going to read and comment on that blast-from-the-past article in the Easterner?

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

Interesting way to divert the subject. How about the tax exempt status,and issues of exorbatant salaries for nonprof CEOs?

By the way, I will read the Easterner, but I can tell you if Dick Black's name is on it, it cares ZERO credibility.

 

From Usatoday:

So there it is the money that Private CEO's aren't getting are going to shareholders. The money for Public CEO's should be going to the community or back into the hospital. The big issue is that BRMC is more likely to fold if it starts to lose money. And they have already done this since the BRMC IS the hospital being closed down in Alexandria. Each entity has it's own problems, the question is which is worse.

 

afgm, is there a list of CEOs and their respective hospitals/groups? I know the Hay Group might say the median salary is $238k, but I'd like to see the list and look at other CEOs that make ~440 and compare vs LHC.

 

Now that's a good question. I do not have access to the entire report. Maybe someone else has it? I know it is floating around. The average of $238K is news to me, have you seen the report? Did it come from the Hay Group report or another source?

 

AFGM: I'm not trying to divert, I'm still trying to respond to issues raised pages ago. Jeanne likes to read stats and reports, and so do I. The issue of the Task Force report has been raised, as well as HSANV. I had promised to reread the reports, and in the process of that came across the article from two years ago, which has little to do with Del Black. He only calls attention to the issue (Perhaps in response to constituents? Perhaps in support of your theory that he takes credit for issues--i.e. your thread Black Gall?), and much of the article consists of HSANV officials stressing that the Task Force did not consult or even notify them that they would be using (selected) portions of HSANV data to support the conclusions in their report. The premise seems to be that the use of (some) HSANV data implies that HSANV helped with/supports the report, and thus its conclusions. Task force members are still in play on the issue, and some spoke against LHC when BRMC was before the PC.

I could as easily ask why the topic has gone back to salaries and tax status, but will simply note what I said earlier: 1000 new people move to Loudoun each month. The same (selected? portions of?) stories can be told over and over, because a statistically significant percentage of fresh blood is hearing them for the first time, every time they're told. I wish Pats Fan did like politics: the same stories recycle at the county level too, because of the odds.

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

OK, I accept the answer. But the answer is also another diversion.

The actual amount of Huebber's salary is new and enlightening. It had only previously been inferred as egregious. Now the actual amount is known. In fact, this data is several years old; I wonder how much he is making now?

The tax issue is a new topic, not one explored heavily within this forum. In defense of the tax exempt status, I would be very interested in seeing how much charitable work LHC does in the County. After all, this is a significant reason LHC has a tax exempt status. I am surprised they aren’t required to reveal it.

LHC has been suspiciously reluctant to reveal the amount of their contributions. I wonder why? Could their charitable contributions be as embarrassing as their exorbitant salaries? Could the facts threaten their tax exempt status? If anyone has these facts, or can get LHC to release them, it would be helpful.

Jeanne, thank you for the information on tax benefit BRMC will bring to Loudoun. That is a huge amount! Does anyone think LHC spends that much on the community? (Other than to attack elements that threaten their monopoly )

Frankly, I am surprised they haven't revealed the actual numbers. They brag about the community aspects of their efforts, I'd think they would be proud of the amount spent on charitable efforts.

I understand it can be a very difficult task to defend these facts, and folks preferring to discuss others things.

p.s. I chuckled at the Black reference. Good point.

 

It happened again! The minor injury goes to Loudoun Hospital, and the serious injury gets flown elsewhere. This continues several times a month. We need an increase in healthcare services now! I bet Mr. Pham wishes BRMC was "on-line" now. Heck, an ambulance would of gotten him to BRMC quicker than it took the helicopter to arrive.

Three Vehicle Accident Injures Two

Loudoun County, Virginia- A three-vehicle accident outside the Leesburg
town limits sent two people to area hospitals Tuesday morning.

Patricia Bettis, 54, of Leesburg was attempting to cross River Creek
Parkway onto Riverside Parkway shortly after 8 a.m. when she pulled out
in front of a 1999 Ford Aerostar.

Bettis' 1998 Chevrolet Cavalier struck the minivan, driven by Mot Van
Pham, 36, of Falls Church. The minivan then rolled over onto its roof
as the Chevy continued to head towards Riverside Parkway where it struck
a 2001 International box truck driven by Brian Binkley of Hagerstown,
MD.

Pham was airlifted to INOVA Fairfax Hospital where he is currently
being treated for non-life threatening injuries.

Bettis was taken to the Lansdowne Campus of Loudoun Hospital for minor
injuries. Binkley was uninjured in the accident.

 

AFGM: I'm glad you accept the answer, even if you do immediately classify the answer itself as another "diversion". Yesno?

There seems to be a flavor of emotional hyperbole in your discussion of the salary/charity/tax issue (egregious, suspiciously reluctant, embarrassing, exorbitant, "Could the facts threaten their tax exempt status?"). I look forward to boomertsfx's and Homer's contributions on that line, if they are so inclined. A financial discussion based in emotion on "evil LHC" is still an "evil LHC" discussion.

Well, chacun a son gout, or to each his own (diversion).

Thanks again for accepting my answer--bye for now, until I've read more on the last "diversion". p.s.--did you read the article?



Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

A couple of follow-ups.
Regarding Huebbers salary, I discussed this over a year ago on one of the other hospital threads. I raised the issue of his salary and someone provided a post on some news articles done on salaries.
Huebbers salary was comparable to the CEO running 800-1000 bed facilities.....while Loudoun was only a little over 100 beds. If you want to scroll through all the other hospital threads you'll find the discussion somewhere.........

Barbara-
The HOA has received no complaints about your posts. The story with the Chris character is longer than I feel like typing. You can see the highlights under my post in the "Changes to the forums" thread, or give me a call and I'll explain it all to you.

Homer-
A point of clarification. HCA is not closing their hospital in Arlington. They will still operate the emergency room (the most important feature for those that are not insured or indigent) and outpatient services. They are only relocating the in-patient beds to the new hospital. Dominion hospital will be closed. Note that the HSANV agreed that the facility was obsolete and needed replacing.

 

I'm going to just jump in here ... we have no idea what injuries the man had, nor do we know what decisions were made by the paramedics on the ground.

FWIW ... based on the location, LHI would have been closer however, I did a Google search on the words: Trauma Center & Virginia. Up popped a link for Inova .. heres a quote:

In 1985 the INOVA Regional Trauma Center was designated as a Level I center and is the only Level I trauma center in Northern Virginia. It is also the only trauma center in the Commonwealth of Virginia that is verified by American College of Surgeons (1993 & 1996).

Here is the link: http://www.nvipc.org/Center/main-sec1.html

Inova appears to be the only trauma center in NoVA, so this is why many accidents are sent there and not to LHI or Reston . So pointing out that accident victims being sent there, rather than LHI is nothing more than a red herring.



Neil Z.
Resident since 1999

 

Except that many indigent are mentally impaired and may be sent to the BRMC [].

So in 2060 when the BRMC is obsolete, it will be abandoned?

 

http://www.hospitalconnect.com/hhnm...ata/0309HHN_FEA_DelicateBalance&domain=HHNMAG was a link from the Hay Group site...

 

Boomertsfx: I skimmed the linked story you posted, and gleaned two things from a first reading.

One, the mention that the absence of stock and other incentives in a not-for-profit structure can skew the salaries when comparing the apples to the oranges. Does this in any way address the point raised by Cliff that Rodney Heubbers' salary is comparable to CEOs of institutions with more beds? Are those institutions for profit?

Two, the idea that salaries/compensation are geared to long range results, with an eye toward attracting and retaining the kind of personnel that acheive and maintain those results. I have read a lot on how LHC's finances were basically circling the drain before they brought Heubbers' in, and he has led a massive recovery in his few years here. Sounds to me like the type of person you want to make sure stays around to keep things moving up, with a viable salary absent stock etc.

So, is a salary structure comparison an apples-to-apples, or -to-oranges, in an LHC vs. HCA case?

I may get brave and go to the new thread on South Loudoun--that looks like it could get interesting!

Barbara Munsey, from South Riding.

 

I can't find any specific examples of CEO salaries as Cliff mentioned, but I haven't looked very hard here at work. South Loudoun will be interesting indeed... I can only hope they'll leave some trees during the development! (not likely)