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Outside Pool Memberships

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by Brosowalk, May 30, 2006.

  1. Brosowalk

    Brosowalk New Member

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    On Memorial Day, Broadlands residents were turned away from the Southern Walk pool because it was at capacity. I realize it was a hot day and a lot of people wanted to come to pool but it made me wonder how many outside pool members where inside the pool while Broadlands residents were told to they couldn't enter. I am not a big fan of the outside pool memberships. Partly because the HOA member in charge of the Recreation Committee told us residents who objected to the selling of outside memberships at an HOA meeting that we, as residents, elected them to make decisions so if we don't like it too bad because it brings in money and they make the decisions. Lastly, what bothers me the most is the abuse of these memberships and the fact that they apparently are sold and then go unchecked. Case in point, I met someone who was not a Broadlands resident who told me she thinks the pool membership is a "bargain" because she and her neighbor spilt one between two families. The purchasing family lists the mom of the neighboring family as her "nanny" so 2 adults and 6 children use our pool for the price of one membership. She went on to tell me that she "lives" at the fountain pool. When I told her the Summerbrooke pool was off limits she said that she knew that but the guards are never at the check-in desk so she and her neighbor walk right in. I also overheard a guard at the SW pool tell an outside member she could use the Summerbrooke pool for skill assessments for swim lessons. So I guess outside members can take swim lessons at our pools too. As a homeowner who pays use our pools I find these outside memberships an insult to those who live here and pay for these amenities. Particularly when the HOA wants to collect the cash and then turn a blind eye to what's really going on while residents pay the price of "their decision."
     
  2. serenity4kay

    serenity4kay Member

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    I have to agree with you on this. I went to the Summerbrooke pool yesterday afternoon with my 3 year old and had to explain to him why we couldn't stay and swim. :angryfire: The first thought that came to mind was how many non residents are using these pools. I say these pools because my 12 year old went to the Southern Walk pool at the same time and was told that she was 30th in line to get in. I understand that the proceeds that are received for the memberships may go to good use within the community but at my sons' expense, I would rather do away with it. Homeowners within Broadlands are spending a lot of money each month for these amenities and shouldn't have to deal with being turned away when there are 3 pools in this neighborhood. This is the first time that I have ever seen all 3 pools full. It will be interesting to see if this is a recurring thing throughout the summer.
     
  3. jblnd

    jblnd New Member

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    We were actually turned away at two pools this weekend. While I am reserving judgement because it was a Holiday weekend and the first of the summer, I would like to know how the outside memberships are distributed and maintained. Does anyone know how this process works?
     
  4. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    When the pools were closed because of capacity being reached, the HOA did have the pool operators count up how many outside memberships were contributing to the pools being at capacity. I do not have the specific numbers in front of me.. but they were insignificant. (on the order of 10-20 if I recall out of capacities in the 380+ range).

    The pool's being at capacity was not a problem of selling outside memberships.. the problem is the community is simply getting larger. SW used to be empty all the time.. now its at capacity.. what's the difference? Broadlands South being built out..

    Summerbrooke would hit capacity from time to time in the past as well.
     
  5. Brosowalk

    Brosowalk New Member

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    Then why sell outside memberships at all? Seriously, is that something we want to pay our HOA staff to do? How much time and money is spent printing letters and stuffing envelopes? How much time and money is spent creating an updating databases with outside membership information? Is that why the HOA hired part time help? What about mailing lists? Where they purchased and for how much? How much was postage?
     
  6. Tech Head

    Tech Head New Member

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    I think we definitely need to look at ending the outside membership program at this point. Even though it is an insignificant amount, that's 20 residents that could have used the pool.
    I'm not sure but I think that there are no more pools planned in Broadlands. Is that right? If so, we may be looking at overcrowded pools as the norm from now on.
     
  7. WesGurney

    WesGurney New Member

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    I thought there was a rule that if a Broadlands resident wants to go to the pool and its at capacity, then anyone with an outside membership (non-Broadlands resident) would be asked to leave.
     
  8. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    The outside pool memberships had nothing to do with being turned away from the pools this weekend. At the time the gaurds realized the southern walk pool was at capacity there were 425 people in the pool 20 if wich were outside members the capacity of that pool is approximatly 380 ( I do not remember the exact number from last year) when comunity center pool hit capacity there were 300 people and 15 were outside members the capacity of that pool is 275ish. Summerbrooke pool hit capactiy with 0 outside members there. Every year for the 1st 2 to 3 weeks especially when it is hot we will hit capacity. even without a single outside pool membership we do not have enough pool space that if every resident decided to go to the pools hundreds would be turned away. The reasons that we do outside pool memberships is because each year over 500 homes do not pick up there memberships and the money that we raise goes to 1 keeping dues down (the 1st $50,000 goes to community expenses that would normally be paid by dues)and buying the canopies that people have asked for to provide some shade areas and in the 1st year bought the slide and diving board as they were not provided by the developer as many believe and most of the season minus the 1st 3 weeks the pools are highly underutilized.
    Each year the board re-eveluates weather or not to sell outside memberships we base out decision on the pool bather loads for the entire season not just 1 or 2 days of it and in the past few years the average useage has been very minimal (averages of 150 people at SW for 380 bather load, 75 at CC pool with a 280 bather load and 100 at Summerbrooke with a 230 bather load). A bather load is the maximum number of people that can be in the pool at one time according to the health department and still remain safe for all users and averagaes are based on the number of people using the pool in any given hour through out the course of the summer. Yes we do occasionally hit capacity but most of the time that is when someone's child has had an accident in the pool and or we have had teenagers think they were being funny by throwing feces into the pool. Other then those occasions last year there was one day that Southernwalk pool hit capacity in the last 2 years and that was 4th of july weekend.
    I am very aware that most everyone that lives here moved here for the amenities that they could not get elsewhere and I know that the pools are a big part of that. On a daly basis I am at one pool or another manking sure rules are being followed and enforced poeple are not slipping in without the proper cards and that the residents are getting the usage that they moved here for. I am not everywhere all the time and I do miss things but I garuntee you that outside membership did not cause the capacity issues this weekend (they would have been at capacity for those 2 hours with or without the outside members)

    As to swimming lessons yes anyone can take lessons here in broadlands however if they do not present a valid broadlands pool pass they are suppose to be paying a higher price then the residents do and that money is suppose to be credited back to us in our overall cost. i only know of a hanful of people from outside of broadlands that perfer our pools to do the lessons in but I am not sure how closely NV keeps track of who they are signing up, and it is something that I have tried to get a better handle on last year and hope to even more so this year.
    I am sorry for the inconvience that people had on Monday by being turned away. And I promise I will be keeping a close eye on any further capacity issues and how much outside members effect it or not. This was not an outside membership issue this was just a lot of residents wanting to use there pools
    If anyone would like more information or to disscuss this further please feel free to call me 703 723 1984 or email me directly ssdkapinos@yahoo.com

    Staci
     
  9. Brosowalk

    Brosowalk New Member

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    What I don't understand is why it is important to emphasize just how many people do not pick up pool passes. So what? It's their passes, they paid for them, if they don't want to pick them up, that's their choice. Would it make the HOA's decision easier if the people who don't pick up passes pick them up and don't go to the pools? Broadlands residents pay for their pool passes, if they choose to use them, leave them at the HOA office or make hats of them
    it's their choice and should not be used as a way to justify selling outside memberships.
     
  10. sharse

    sharse TeamDonzi rocks!!

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    You might be interested to hear, if you haven't already, that at Summerbrooke they aren't (yet?) collecting and holding the pool passes. I was told, the two times I went this weekend with my kids, that they are checking passes (which they did) but don't have the facility to HOLD the passes as they had in the past. So she gave me back my passes and we walked in. I share this experience to simply question how the pool operators would know who was inside. I don't think, for that pool at least, they'd have the ability to tell you what % was residents and what % was not.

    I should also say that it would have been VERY easy for me to just walk in each time with my kids. I had to stand at the desk and get the attention of the attendants and offer to show them my passes. Had I been in a hurry or otherwise uninclined to play by the rules I could have walked in NO PROBLEM.

    Again, only speaking for Summerbrooke as I haven't gone to the other pools yet.
     
  11. sharse

    sharse TeamDonzi rocks!!

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    Agreed. If selling outside memberships in the past provided some revenue and there was not an overcrowding issue at that point, great. But as was stated above, times are changing now that SW is growing and we have many more families in the neighborhood. Time to rethink.
     
  12. dbrow

    dbrow Member

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    Is there any way to prevent this type of situation?
     
  13. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    Yes at that time the price was $200 so anyone was willing to pay that and see how many they could get away with on the list. We have since rasied it to $400 so that helped and now required proof that all people on the list live in the home (ie have mail that they recieve at that address) especially if there is more then 1 last name. Also the $400 is suppose to be for up to 5 members of a family and each additional member is suppose to be additional $. I am not sure how many of the outside members have families greater then 5 but it is only a handful but I can check tomorrow to let you know exaclty how many larger families there are. Also as far as I know we do not allow outside mebers the privilege of an outside nanny as we do for residents ( I could be wrong on this so I will double check this as well). I do know that outside members do not get a guest card with there memberships however they do have the privelege of purchsing one for $20 (where residents purchase them for $10 after there initail 10 free)

    Next year we will have a new card system in place that will have pictures that will go along with all memberships (you will be recieving a small card similar to the ones you use at the grocery store ) so that outside members and residents will not be able to pass there cards to someone else and or just say theres was lost and get a duplicate and then use both. Unfortunatly people are dishonest and we are working on ways to make sure that only those who are suppose to be at our pools are there. Unfortunatly it is not an easy fix and though it has been in the work for the past year it will not be able to actually be implimented until next year.
    This will hopefully eliminate even more the chances of people trying to get away with multiple homes on one pass as they will have to prove who they are when they come to have there picture taken

    Staci
     
  14. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    Thanks for letting me know about this I will have this corrected tomorrow and they will be collecting passes from now on.
    I do kow that until school lets out all 3 pools are slightly under staff but I have tried again an again to make them realize how important it is to have someone who is just working the desk. I will make some phone calls tomorrow and see if I can not have this corrected imediately

    Staci

    Staci
     
  15. sharse

    sharse TeamDonzi rocks!!

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    Thanks, Staci. I can tell how concerned you are about the problems and that you are dedicated to finding the best solution possible.
     
  16. Brosowalk

    Brosowalk New Member

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    Staci you said "Next year we will have a new card system in place that will have pictures that will go along with all memberships (you will be recieving a small card similar to the ones you use at the grocery store ) so that outside members and residents will not be able to pass there cards to someone else and or just say theres was lost and get a duplicate and then use both."
    Does that mean that the HOA plans on selling outside memberships in 2007 without consulting residents?
     
  17. cindyb

    cindyb New Member

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    Maybe if the 1st 3 weeks are the most crowded, outside memberships can become active after this time. If there's even 20 outside members in an at-capacity pool, and 30 residents on the list waiting to get in, that's 20 residents that could be in and the list shortened to 10 residents.
     
  18. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson New Member

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    Easy fix for short term demand. Ban outsiders on Holiday weekends such as Memorial Day, 4th of July, and Labor Day.
     
  19. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    Not necessarily. It just means that if the board does decide to again sell outside pool memberships there will be an extra layer of security to make sure we do not have some of the problems you discussed in your 1st post. Plus it keeps residents who have moved from our neighborhood from returning "claiming" they just lost ther sticker and are in the process of getting it replaced as I have seen happen.
    If this weekend is how the whole summer goes there will be no outside memberships next year (at least I know I would not vote for it) but I suspect that if it stays as warm as it is right now we may have a few more days like this past Monday (like the last day of school, the weekend after school gets out and 4th of July weekend) but that after that we will see minimal usage. What might be an option in the comming years if we still want to use the income to keep dues down and if this is indeed the trend is sell a end of season pass or an August only pass instead of the whole summer. But again I must reiterate this past Monday was a result of the residents using the pool not the outside membership, yes they attributed to it but even with out there presence we were over capacity and would have had the same kinds of waits.

    Staci
     
  20. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    It does not work quite like that the reason for such a long wiat list was because the gaurds let way to many people come in over then number that was allowed. If they had only let in say 390 it would have been a one on one transfer 1 comes out one goes in but sine they went to 425 they had to let over 30 people leave before they could start that transfer. Both the other pools did not go that far over capacity so there was no more then a handful of people wating to get in at any one time so even with the 15 at CC it did not mean there was an extra 15 you had to wait have come out.
    I hope that explains it better

    Staci
     

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