Boundary meetings for new elementary schools

1000 students is too many kids to attend to and receive the required attention and learning for an elementary school given Mill Run's numbers. I think our children end up sacrificing a quality education because it is a numbers game. Overcrowding one school and not filling up the spaces at another makes no sense to me.

 

Good luck Joy. Having been through 4 boundary hearings I would bet your opinion will not make a bit of difference. Every boundary hearing it's the same...LCPS says yes, the numbers are too high at Mill Run but Mill Run was always designed to catch the overflow of surrounding neighborhoods so we aren't about to change it...LCPS says yes, the numbers at Mill Run are high THIS year but NEXT year we are opening new schools and so we'll shift neighborhoods then so just sit tight one more year, blah, blah, blah. And don't bother with Mr. DuPree, he's not much of an advocate for us here in the Broadlands. This will be his response: His children went to 5 elementary schools, he worked with the LCPS to get the Overland Park section at ER (a no brainer) he'll pass your comments along to the LCPS Board of Supervisors...blah, blah, blah round 2. For some reason the LCPS system has blinders on when it comes to Mill Run. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Legacy reaches 1,000 students for just one year and the next year, their numbers are cut in almost in half. The big focus of the two input meetings I went to was "let's get Legacy some relief!" Mill Run has always been overcrowded. Three years ago Mill Run sent it's 4th and 5th graders to Eagle Ridge for the entire year to take the pressure off the school. The big promise at those input meetings ... LCPS says "Please work with us folks! We are doing the best we can. Live with this for one year and then when we open new schools next year, things will be better." And then what happens?? The next year Mill Run opens at over capacity and the following year, and this year and next year too. I think as taxpayers we deserve better from our school board and our elected officials because as someone on this post said earlier our kids are paying the price.

 

But the problem is there is no sense of outrage from Mill Run families, hardly anyone ever speaks to this issue at public meetings, so nothing changes. The squeeky wheels get the grease and as far as LCPS is concerned, we are well lubricated.

 

Folks:

Interesting postings. As I have indicated previously on this thread, if you would like to provide input on school attendance zones, please contact me at rfdupree@aol.com. Thanks to Joy who did that in addition to her posting – subsequently, I called her and we had a nice phone conversation about the various issues. As for the individuals who did not sign their postings, if you or any other concerned residents would like to meet with me prior to when the School Board makes its decision, I would welcome such an opportunity. I will be at the School Administration Building in Broadlands on Monday night from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. to discuss boundaries with any interested parties. I would welcome discussing your concerns and suggestions on this or any other issue. The security guard at the front desk will direct you to the the room.

Robert

Robert DuPree
Chairman & Dulles District Representative
Loudoun County School Board

 

Thanks Robert. As always, you make yourself available to your constituents.
Hopefully some will take you up on the offer.

 

Brosowalk,

You are absolutely wrong about how Mr. Dupree handles situations like this. Have you ever spoken directly with him? Have you ever dropped the attitude and tried to understand the complexity of the situation? Have you ever considered that maybe there is more than one family effected by these situations?

I encourage you to get involved, as I think you'll find your views are important. That has been my experience, both with LCPS and Mr. Dupree. I was not always satisifed with the ultimate decisions, but I always felt I was heard, just as folks with alternate views had been heard.

 

I did e-mail Mr. Dupree and he responded and also called me and took the time to discuss the matter with me. So, I agree with afgm that I felt I was heard. However, Brosowalk was dead right as well. Mr. Dupree's explanation was exactly as described above. He said that Mill Run needs to hold out for one more year, because then Regency (the one I suggested moving to Rosa Lee Carter -- DN24) and Farmwell Hunt, too, will be moved to the new school opening in 2008 that One Loudoun has proffered permanently. I don't believe that re-zoning has been approved yet, but I believe it will be. He also said that Mr. Vickers (Mill Run's principal) is in full support of the staff recommendation. Mr. Dupree said he doesn't want to move DN24 to Rosa Lee Carter next year and then have them have to move again. This is my first year as a Mill Run parent, so I apologize for my possible naivite in my conversation with him. It all sounded reasonable to me, until
I read Brosowalk's post. Now I'm wondering if I was being played. I'll send him another e-mail as well. I couldn't make it last night. Did anyone go talk to him?

As for Cliff's point, any ideas on why Mill Run's Broadlands parents don't seem to care about decreasing capacity? Is it the PTA? Is it that Mr. Vickers doesn't want capacity to drop? I am a bit bewildered by the lack of activism in this matter.

 

Joy-
It's my opinion that Broadlands lacks activism in ALL matters, not just school boundary issues. This isn't stated as a bad or negative thing, it's just the way it is.

 

Folks:

Tonight's boundary meeting was dominated by Leesburg area issues, and we will have to continue that discussion in January. But the boundaries for the new Arcola Elementary in Dulles South, Rosa Lee Carter Elementary is Loudoun Valley Estates II, and all nearby schools were approved 9-0.

Included in that boundary change was the shifting next year to Cedar Lane ES of planning zone DN 27.1, which contains the community of Ashbriar that currently attends Mill Run -- these children have been an integral part of the Mill Run community (several Mill Run staff live there too), and Mr. Vickers has said he didn't want to lose them or any other communities next year. However, as I told residents of Ashbriar, I believe that this move to Cedar Lane will provide them with a long-term home where they should not fear being moved again as far as the eye can see, and the reception to this stability has been well received (although NOBODY ever wants to leave Mr. Vickers and Mill Run). This shift will also offset the increase in enrollment that would otherwise occur, meaning that Mill Run will not grow in enrollment next year as would otherwise have been the case.

I can characterize the prevailing sentiment tonight and in virtually all the input we received as supporting the notion that the next Ashburn area elementary school (ES-19), which the voters just approved funding for, will provide the final solution for the northern part of Ashburn and will result in long-term boundaries that will provide stability for Mill Run at levels under capacity and significantly lower than they have been in recent years. The assumption of many Regency and Farmwell Hunt parents I have spoken to is acceptance of the likeliehood that they will attend ES-19, but they just didn't want their children to attend three schools in three years.

Keep in mind that we did take many hundreds of children out of Mill Run when we opened Legacy (two years early - at my initiative in my first year on the School Board we went to the Board of Supervisors to get accelerated funding without even going to the voters, it was that badly needed), and Legacy even opened last year at 800 students but there were still over 900 at Mill Run as both attendance zones were growing incredibly fast. We couldn't put any more students in Legacy, as is shown by the fact that their enrollment quickly passed Mill Run as is now around 1,050. Also, Mill Run is not currently overflowing any students to other schools, as has been the case in the past, but Legacy is overflowing some students.

Anyway, this isn't spin or playing anyone. It's a plan to finally bring long-term stability and relief to Mill Run while also not simply thinking of children from other neighborhoods who now attend Mill Run as movable inventory that can be moved from facility to facility every year -- they're children, and they deserve to have the minimal amount of disruption possible. I know Broadlands parents wouldn't want their children bounced around like that either, and at least one leading Broadlands parent expressed that point of view to me and others at a community input session this fall, saying it made sense to "hunker down" (my words) one more year at Mill Run rather than jerking somebody's children around from school to school, and I appreciated that show of concern for other children.

Finally, regarding the concern that Broadlands lacks activism, I must strongly disagree. Broadlands residents were critical in getting Briar Woods High School approved and built, they were very vocal and successful in getting ever member of the School Board to agree that the community should not be split and sent to two middle schools (I opposed splitting any community last year during that debate), and they have not been bashful about bringing more everyday concerns to my attention, and I appreciate their doing so.

I apologize that this was so lengthy (lots of coffee tonight for an eight-hour meeting), but I wanted to respond to at least some of the concerns I have seen on this forum. And if anyone wants to speak or meet with me individually or as a group, please email me at rfdupree@aol.com and we'll set up a time to talk.

Robert

Robert DuPree
Chairman & Dulles District Representative
Loudoun County School Board

 

So Dupree states that Mill Run will not have an increase in enrollment but more VM houses have opened in Broadlands so is it expected to be at 1,000 students next year and still over capacity or what? Was not sure I understood correctly.

 

hberg:

Thanks for the question.

Here's the story:

Mill Run is currently at 967 students (actual end of September enrollment data, which is used because by then all the late vacationers and movers are in school).

Under the plan adopted last night, Mill Run is projected to be at 966 students next September 30th.

So essentially no more growth at Mill Run -- the new residents you spoke of will be offset by the shift of Ashbriar to their new long-term school, Cedar Lane.

Then in October, we will begin the process of drawing boundaries for ES-19, which will provide the long-term school assignment for other neighborhoods currently at Mill Run and other schools, and thus substantive and long-term relief for Mill Run. This is why I have been working for the past few years to get funding for ES-19 -- the missing link that will provide long-term stability for our area.

If you would like to discuss further, please email me at rfdupree@aol.com with a name and phone number. Ditto for any other concerned resident.

Robert

Robert DuPree
Chairman & Dulles District Representative
Loudoun County School Board

 

Robert-
Residents concern has been that Mill Run parents have been promised "just one more year" for the last three years.
How about a commitment that IF World One isn't approved and IF no additional school is built for 2008, the School Board WILL make boundary line adjustments to relieve Mill Run.
I know you won't/can't make this commitment. it's a rhetorical question for discussion purposes.

 

Something weird is going on here.

This article in Leesburg Today
http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2006/12/13/news/new61boundary121306.txt

Says they only have about 180 kids for the opening of this school Sycolin Creek Elementary School next year that has a capacity for over 800. Yet other schools are over crowded and this school is in a largely hispanic community, so race is now entering the equation.

Yet they plan more schools elsewhere in a county that is now growing quite a bit slower then years past.

The school board needs to get their act together. I personally will not stand for an increase in taxes for our school system. They need to live on what they get and that is it. From what I have seen so far my kids got a much better education in Santa Monica California then what I see here at much less cost to the tax payers and they had less chilren per classroom and spent more per child. When the county budget is 75% for schools this is crazy. More homes only increase our taxes and have not lowered them. Also anyone with 4 or more kids should pay for the added cost to the school system or the federal goverment should contribute if they cannot afford it.

There is going to be a war against this school board if they don't get their act together. No more homes or increased taxes until this county gets it's act together. We need more commercial and urban developments before there is more suburban sprawl, which is not working, as we can see by the possibilty of higher taxes, because more homes and children do not pay for itself. This may bring up a real sore point with people, but I don't want to pay higher taxes because people want to have a zillion kids. After three kids then those parents need tp pay for the extra cost their children are costing us taxpayers. My wife and I both came from families of six kids, both of us found there many problems with that many kids in a family compared to the parents that had way less. Both of our families have had two kids each that have never been anything but serious trouble and they were the middle kids.

Hey more power to anyone that wants a lot of children that can pay for them and don't burden the school systems and the taxpayers with them.
I love kids but Enough is enough when they cause your taxes to skyrocket.
I am seeing and we are going to see problems with this overload of children on our school system and society, and we already are. We need these urban style like Loudoun Station One Loudoun and Moorefield developments in Loudoun to offset this.


Lee J Buividas

 

Thanks for the questions/input.

Lee: I share your concern about the vote on that amendment last night and let me assure you it's not over. I voted against the amendment that would allow Sycolin Creek to open so dramatically underutilized and not relieve the Leesburg area schools it was intended to relieve. Because even those who supported that amendment agreed that we need to consider this matter further, we made no final decisions on Leesburg last night so the discussions will continue and we will resume consideration of this issue on January 9th. I am urging that we take the action needed to bring stability to this area by properly utilizing the new school and bringing relief elsewhere. Unlike our area, they do NOT have another new school opening in that area for some time, so we need to do it right. Just hang on and we'll see if we can get a majority to come around to that point of view.

Cliff: When you suggested me and another board member at the community input session that it would make sense to hold many of those kids at Mill Run for one more year until ES-19 opens, rather than switching them for one year only, I assured you that we would open it in 2008 and draw those boundaries next fall. That is still the case. We have the funding. The only question now is the site, and we should know that by next month. If it's not the Loudoun County Parkway/One Loudoun site (which if approved would be zoned for a school), it will have to go adjacent to Newton-Lee, which we own and is zoned for a school. I believe we hope to award a construction contract this summer or in the early fall.

Robert

Robert DuPree
Chairman & Dulles District Representative
Loudoun County School Board

 

Robert-
Yes, I recall that, and I personally don't have a problem with the plan. I was trying to relay to you the concerns of many other folks.
Maybe you could restart your column in our Newsletter and discuss these types of issues? (shameless plug!!)

 

Mr. DuPree -
With all due respect I am just wondering how you think we as parents at Mill Run can be happy knowing that the enrollment numbers will drop from 967 to 966 when the schools capacity is 817? It just doesn't make any sense to me when Rosa Lee Carter (one of the new schools that was supposed to take the enrollment burden off of Mill Run per boundary planning meetings last year) is opening at less than 600 students. Also, in my experience, your numbers are always incorrect. Last boundary go round the LCPS approved this current boundary scenario and had Mill Run's projected enrollment at 870...I think the LCPS line at that time was it's just 50 more students. However, actual enrollment is 968, a little off I would say. So by saying we'll open at 966 is probably going to be around the 1,000 student mark. Then what?

Lastly, since we are talking numbers here, moving DN27.1 to Cedar Lane means 55 students leave Mill Run. Using this year's numbers, MR has 37 classes in all, that equals one and a half kids per class. Maybe it's me, but doesn't seem like a lot.

 

Lee there are a few other options for you if you don't like the possibility of yet another tax increase, and heaven forbid it go to the Public School System:

1. Rent. Sell you're house, and if you want to stay in Loudoun County you could rent. Then you wouldn't have to pay property taxes, although you would loose the write off come tax time.

2. Move. Sell you're house. Go on line and do a search for "What county in the United States has the cheapest property taxes". Find it and then move there. Chances are you'll find one that has one elementery school, and one combined Middle and High School. I'm sure you would be quite happy in you're "Cabin in the Woods".

3. Become a homeless person. Sell you're house and car. That way you would not only not have to pay property tax, but the car tax would be gone also. Also gone: Utilities w/taxes, Gasoline Tax, Phone tax etc..
Now that you have no expenses you would not have to work. You could live in a refrigerator box in the Food Lion parking lot. You could still participate in these forums by going to the Public Library. (Now this wouldn't really be fair to the people that pay the taxes to support the Library, but go ahead, I don't care).

I have 4 kids, by choice. And yes, they are all in the Public School System.
When we moved here from Maryland 9 years ago, we chose Loudoun County and Broadlands for the Public School System. That is the only reason we are here, and intend to go nowhere until they all finish their High School education. It worked out well, we really love it here.

I'll bet there were many people in you're California county, where you're kids went to school, that had no kids of their own that paid their taxes, so YOU'RE children could have their wonderful education. (I'm not buying into the fact that you're kids are better educated than mine will be, here in Loudoun County) It seems that you're kids never attended Schools here in Loudoun, so you're involvement in the Schools is Zero. I've been involved for 9 years, and have had not one complaint.

So, Thank you Lee, for paying for my childrens tuition. And also I think that I am going to adopt a child from Cambodia, Ethiopia, and Malawi, and bring them here to Loudoun, where they will have a chance at a good life, and for that matter, even life. And guess what? You'll be paying for their tuition too.

 

I knew what I said was going to draw fire and not be popular, but it has even surprised the census bureau the amount of children to parents in this county which is one of the highest in the country. This statistic makes for some interesting unique problems for the school system, taxes and a host of other things such as many more teenage children driving at one time here which has led to some interesting driving statistics here and the over crowding of roads and things for the teens to do. There are several good books about the failure of suburbia. Which you might find fascinating. I am not here to step on toes or tell people how many children people should have if they can support them and have the time to give to them. The school board is taking advantage of the situation and is throwing money away wastefully from the cost of the schools to everything inbetween. As we say in the building business anyone can build a million dollar home and make it cost a million, the trick is to make it look and be a milloin dollar home but make it cost a half million. The school board are like drunken sailors they will spend even dime you give them and really don't care how much it cost and next year will ask for more and more., Of course they will tell you differently but that is why private industry most of the time can do things at a much less cost then the government or with government involvement.

Yes I did have one son start Broad Run High School and we took him out and put him in private school. He is now in film school and doing extremely well.

Yes Mr dad I could do all the things you suggest, but I was here in the eighties way before most of you and then moved to California for most of the nineties.

Here is where Loudoun is today The western part is going to stay pretty much rural, suburbia in the eastern part is on it's way out although it could take another 10 to 20 years to totally finish up the majority has been built. Suburbia is now going to happen in West Virginia for the most part leaving us with the traffic jams.

I am here for the long term to be involved in the urbanizing of eastern Loudoun, Which is Loudon’s future, the suburban land is about gone. The urbanization if done right will make Loudoun one of the most exciting places in the country to live. We will see the creation of new businesses and technology far beyond anything you can imagine happening right here over the next 30 plus years. We already have the incubation for many of this right now such as Janella Farms and many many other exciting things to come. We have only scratched the surface of what Loudoun and Northern VA and the DC area will become, which is far beyond anyone’s imagination around here today. Sorry much of suburbia is now done in Loudoun. If you don’t believe me just look at the mega urban projects in the pipeline.

School board listen up, you are designing very ugly and inefficient schools which cost far more then if some creative thought went into what you are building, You just keep designing the same old same old with very little new creativity in the design or for the children. School board you have an unique opportunity so try to do something with it. Just as easy to design something really cool and unique, as to keep the same old outdated designs that just keep popping up. A lot of the thinking in this county is what I call safe thinking, now is the time to really show the world and our children that our schools can be creative in design as well as education. I was very much involved in the design of my kid’s new school in Santa Monica and it came in at less cost then the average school and had a lot of design character to it. And it was also fun to go to school there. The design of the schools here are inefficient and boring for the most part. Take a clue from Clyde’s new restaurant by your main administration building it blends in the the landscape and neighborhood your administration building is an over priced ugly monstrosity looking for attention, just like most of your schools do.

You can design for the children and make the design fun for the kids and be a good neighbor where you don’t stand out like a sore thumb. There are many good examples of this around the country.

People may not like what I say here at times but this county is going to start to be urbanized at the speed of light just like it was suburbanized at the speed light. Like it or not that is the future of eastern Loudoun.

Lee J Buividas

 

Uh Lee, the Clyde's restaurant cost AS MUCH as the School Adminstration building next to it!!
I'll take the uncreative, boxes IF they keep the cost down (and that's a mighty big if). I don't want to see 50 million dollar elementary schools and 200 million dollar high schools so they can look nice.

One last point: how much did your California State taxes contribute to the cost of your school system there? California's state tax is much higher than here and, I would guess, paid more into your city's education costs than Virginia pays to ours. Just wondering. I could be wrong.

 

Madonna? Is that really you?