Candidates Debate Last Night -- Opinions?

Hospitals do not compare to grocery stores. Loudon county may need another hospital, but it doesn't need 2 within 5 miles of each other while the rest of the county is neglected.

 

LUV:

Welcome to the Broadlands HOA Forums, dear! The only allowed topic seems to be the hospital even though it should be clear to all that none of our elected officials or state regulators support it and that it will never, ever be built!

REGARDING THE MATTER AT HAND: I'd like to borrow your idea of boycotting Safeway and change it a little. I think that it would be an excellent idea to use Safeway to pressure the powers-that-be into taking quick action to fix the deathtrap of an intersection at Claiborne/Broadlands. I will see if I can find any information on whom to contact at Safeway.

Also, I bet that you noticed that, even though you were trying to focus attention on the really important issue of the deathtrap intersection, GCYr hi-jacked your message and used it to spout off his agenda. I am sorry that happened once again, but the pro-hospital crowd does not seem ever to take "no" for an answer even when they have been shot down by EVERY AUTHORITY IN THE STATE!

Now, could we please focus on the DEATHTRAP INTERSECTION and OPENBAND (no idea that second one is, but if it is a community issue other than the hospital, I'd be glad to help with it)!?!

 

GCYr: You seem to have forgotten something that you posted a few months ago. In that post (see below), you stated that you KNEW that CRIMINALLY INSANE people would be treated at the HCA hospital. (In fact, you said, "I STAND CORRECTED!") You seem to have forgotten it, so you may want to re-read what you posted:

If anyone doubts that HCA's planned hospital would not treat the criminally insane, please do a search under the term "EMTALA" on this forum. I found the information very helpful.

 

Openband refers to the travasty that is in Southern Walk as the provider for media services - i.e., video, phone, internet access.

 

Chris,

Where does EMTALA say anything about criminally insane? Don't put words in my mouth by taking my comment out of context. Criminally insane people are transferred to state instituations for treatment and confinement, per state law. Call the Sheriff's office and confirm this for yourself.

[quoteGCYr: You seem to have forgotten something that you posted a few months ago. In that post (see below), you stated that you KNEW that CRIMINALLY INSANE people would be treated at the HCA hospital. (In fact, you said, "I STAND CORRECTED!") You seem to have forgotten it, so you may want to re-read what you posted:

 

GCyr:

It is a shame that people who know nothing about the good and bad sides of hospitals try to say that they understand how these facilities operate. What I said is that if a criminally insane person walks into HCA's planned hospital, that criminally insane person would have to be treated! That is a federally-guaranteed right under EMTALA! By gosh, that is amazingly clear from the section of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) that you cited!!!

Because you only want to live life by looking through rose-colored glasses when it comes to the hospital does not give you the right to spread mis-information to Broadlands residents.

I suggest that you re-read EMTALA or ask a healthcare attorney about it.

 

AFGM: Your comments last week were a vitriolic personal attack, and I am glad that the webmaster agreed. The posting that you point to is just a statement of someone's opinion. There are some in the pro-HCA crowd who try to villify anyone against the ho$pital. That is a travesty.

killer_bee in broadands, ashburn, virginia

 

Chris (a.k.a healthcare attorney),

It's also a shame that some people who are against the hospital have to blow everything out of proportion or attack people when they don't get their way.

Once again, aren't criminally insane people by definition (i.e., criminals) held and treated in state run institutions?

 

GCyr:

I am not a healthcare attorney and never have said that I was. Given the low opinion that most people have of attorneys, I wonder if you were leveling an insult at me.

What I find hard to comprehend is the fact that you seem to think that all the criminally insane are already locked up. It would be great if Lo. Co. were an idyllic, quiet suburban county that did not have crime. However difficult as you may find this to believe, some severely mentally disturbed criminals are not behind bars. (That number is growing due to serious under-funding of the healthcare safety net due to Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy!) These disturbed people will be treated at the HCA hospital if built as is required under federal and state laws/regulations. You may not want to recognize this fact, but it is a FACT nonetheless.

 

I guess some people just prefer to think that hospitals only attract wealthy people have a "bad day" and needing some therapy, a gal getting a tummy tuck, or a new mom giving birth. The "seedy" side of society goes to the hospital, too. For one, I have seen that sitting in the E.R. late at night!!! A girlfriend of mine is a E.R. nurse, and the stories I hear from her about the types of people that walk through the doors of a hospital would make anyone scared.

 

I think I have an idea for the hospital site....HCA can sell the land for twice what they paid for it and head west for greener pastures....Then, Elizabeth Arden can build a seven story nail salon. First floor, emergency nail care. Second floor, elective cuticle repair. Third floor, nail transplants. Fourth floor, plastic surgery and nail enhancements. Fifth floor, adolescent nail care. Sixth floor, geriatric pedicures. Seventh floor, experimental nail sanding and polishing. Sure would open up lots of new space in the Ashburn neighborhood malls.

 

Hey, what a great idea. I love it.
A seven story nail salon. Man, that's funny.
Maybe they can get the dirt out of my fingernails, so when I do my ice routine
my hands won't look as if I enjoy digging in dirt (snick).

I used to work as an E.R. nurse 20 years ago (wow!). Back then, there were a lot of drunks and their weirdo friends coming in every night. I think those will continue to come only to LHC though. HCA would never allow that sort of thing in their Broadlands hospital.

 

Who could ever think that HCA would just screen patients at their admissions desk, find out that they're broke and crazy, and then send them across the street to ravage the Broadlands community?!? I'd never expect anything like that from a company with HCA's track record!

Love that sarcasm!

 

Okay, so let's try to see if there are any facts about Chris's fear of the CRIMINALLY INSANE cruising the streets of Broadlands. Can Chris, or anyone, find just ONE example of the CRIMINALLY INSANE hanging out in Lansdowne or Reston and causing crime and harm in their communities.
Come on....find me just ONE single example. I'd love to hear about it.
Or, as I expect, are you simply using inflammatory statements that are not based on any credible facts and designed to incite fears needlessly. Sorry, but a written explanation in some document does not make a credible case to me.
I'll be waiting for your examples......
Cliff

 

Cliff, do Reston and Loudoun Hospitals have beds or the same number of beds HCA wants in Broadlands for mental health care?

*not trying to be inflammatory, I'm curious of the numbers. This is the issue which most people seem to be concerned with.

 

I am sorry that you have chosen to make this a personal issue, Cliff. Accusing me of making "inflammatory statements" just to scare people just proves to me that anyone who speaks out against the HCA hospital is treated as a wack-job. I have been polite toward you, have thanked you for what you have done for the community (for example, the Candidates Forum), and have expressed appreciation for the information that you have shared. I have also responded to the personal emails that you have sent to me asking for more information.

In all of my communications with you, I have never once villified you for holding true to your beliefs. However, I find your last post to me to be an example of complete intolerance of and desire to ridicule any belief that you do not personally hold.

What you label as "some document" is nothing other than the Code of Federal Regulations section that addresses how hospitals must operate. You can mock it all you care to; however, it is FEDERAL law and not "some document" that I made up. Now, that is a fact.

Also, you ask for examples from Lansdowne and Reston. If I were more like you, I might accuse you of being disingenuous. I will not do that because I was raised to be respectful of a person's right to hold an opinion different from my own. However, I will ask why you chose those two facilities when you know that they do NOT have psychiatric programs. As you should know, HCA wants to close down its psychiatric programs in Arlington and move them to the Broadlands. So, it is a simple fact that these patients will be in the Broadlands if you have your way (thankfully ALL of the Virginia authorities keep HCA's application!).

 

chris,

Unless you read a different version of EMTALA than I did, it refers to medical, not mental emergency treatment. That's why the "M" in EMTALA is for "Medical" and not Mental -- Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act. A CMS (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) memo dated 11/7/03 on EMTALA interim guidance states:

"...Congress enacted EMTALA to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a patient comes to the emergency department and a request is made for examination or treatment for a medical condition, including active labor, regardless of an individual’s ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide either stabilizing treatment or an appropriate transfer for patients with emergency medical conditions..."

So, what document are you referring to?

 

GCyr:

In the healthcare profession, psychiatric conditions are considered medical issues. For example, section 489.24(b)(i) of EMTALA defines an "emergency medical condition" to include a "medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain, psychiatric disturbances and/or symptoms of substance abuse)..."

A while back, you cited this exact section of EMTALA in one of your posts. You may have forgotten it, so you can re-read it on line at http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...ccess.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/42cfr489.24.htm (If I were snippy, I might suggest that you get an appointment with your doctor to check into your mental health. Since I am polite, I would not suggest that, though.)

For more information on how EMTALA applies to mental healthcare, you can read a thorough review of the issues in Psychiatric Services at http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/53/10/1301.pdf

 

I did not find the phrase "medical condition manifesting" (searched for that quote in the recently revised final rule), so I'll have to pass on your definition. My whole point to this pointless discussion was your reference to "criminally insane" which is not included or referenced anywhere in EMTALA, so it was not based on any EMTALA rule requirements or facts. Carry on, if you must...

[[comment deleted by moderator. We do not allow personal attacks, take it offline. Thanks.]]

 

GCyr: DO A SIMPLE SEARCH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! The language is posted at http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...ccess.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/42cfr489.24.htm

The relevant section is excerpted below:

Emergency medical condition means--
(i) A medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of
sufficient severity (including severe pain, psychiatric disturbances
and/or symptoms of substance abuse)...

One could interpret your response as proof that you do not care for FACTS, which can be found in the EMTALA citation, but only about berating other who do not share you pro-HCA views.