Welp, we're screwed again

Lee,

Would you propose that LoudounCounty rezone all property so they have complete control over all development? If so, please be prepared for millions of tax dollars to be spent in law suits. (Though that doesn't seem to bother you and your court of public opinion thinking)

It's easy to sit there and demand that developers pay for the roads when you’re not the developer. Land development is a very risky and often unpredictable business. How you could expect someone who is uncertain about their own financial future to volunteer the money to build more roads and increase their already enormous risk is beyond my understanding. And if they don’t you label them as bad neighbors?

The thing I don't think a lot of people understand is that most developers make the same 10-15% profit that other businesses shoot for. The difference is they are dealing with larger sums of money and therefore generate seemingly larger returns if a project is successful. The big "if" is what makes most developers seem like greedy money grubbing jerks. Nobody can guarantee how successful their project will be and what returns they will generate. The money put into a project to improve roads could mean the difference between bankruptcy and escaping a project by the skin of your teeth.

With that said, what do you think is going to happen when a developer of a "by right" development is forced to build roads? Do you think they'll just assume more risks or take smaller profit margins? Nope...it will be the same thing that has happened with proffers in the residential building industry. The costs associated with those improvements will be passed on to the end user. Then you will see dozens of threads on here (probably mostly from you) complaining about either the lack of choices we have for eating and shopping or the ridiculous prices they charge at these establishments. Pick your poison.

I know everyone hates to hear it, but higher taxes and some sort of reform at the state level is the answer to building better roads. As a whole, Virginia is terrible when it comes to getting roads built. VDOT is surely the largest employer of lazy, incompetent people in the entire state. Change at this level would be highly dependant on our state politicians telling people what they need to hear and not what they want to hear (so they can get elected). Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic any time our well being is in the hands of politicians.

Thanks,
-Rob

BTW...How's that website coming?

 

Rob first I grew up in the building development business designed my first home professionally for money at age 15.

I understand what you are saying. Butttttt I also see many of the well done areas across the country. So I see what I am talking about here all the time. I am not breaking new ground in my thinking. Screw up the road system and not keep up and you will have what you have here Loudoun at this very moment a disaster with bandaids being given as solutions.

Whjen the dot coms died before 911 Northern virginia was dying economically with see thu buildings and building foundations sitting everywhere uncompleted.

911 happens and boom Loudoun and northern virginia is off to the races. Iraq will have a very negative effect on the northern virginia economy when it winds down . Don't fool yourselves the latest boom was born from 911.

When you lose an AOL you have a big negative. When was the last announcement of any major company moving here. It is not just the big time company it is all the support industry that builds around a major company as aol. So you lose that too.

Lee's crystal ball aol will eventually fold itself into Time warner and merge all the duplicate jobs to New York.

aol will be a shadow of itself in a few years here if there is a presence at all. AOL is in the beginning of consolidated most of itself into time warner and new york. Now you have thousands of aol people looking for jobs and all the support companies are now laying off or going out of business. We don't hear about that and this will increase traffic not make it less as all these people now will be taking jobs perhaps much further away.

Of course you know this was coming the flex people will now have even more land to gobble and do absolutely nothing to help traffic.

Loudoun is now starting to fall apart and nobody seems to know what to do, especially our politicians. Somehow they think these golden eggs will keep coming. Well where are the high paying jobs going to be??? Iraq will be the next be blow to the northern virginia economy. Unless someone does something to attack companies with high paying jobs soon the ripple effect is about to become a tidal wave.

Lee j

 

lee- I would encourage you to read the Loudon County Economic Development report. I think you would see the exact opposite of what you say. (53% growth in employment between 2006-2016) Northern Virginia has quite a few things going for it other than just govt. contracting; one of which is being known as a very business friendly-state, the population of a highly educated and skilled workforce, immigration trends of highly skilled workers, and quite frankly proximity to Dulles Airport.

I've lived here all my life and sure I've seen the are ups and downs (as in any economic cycle), but the growth trends for this area are just overall real strong. Remember, the underlying engine of the U.S. economy are not these large employers that you read about in the media, but the dozens of small shops that continue to add to their payrolls in increments of 1,2,3, maybe 4 at a time (and locate in Flex buildings )

 

mwb you are correct on all points.

My point is only for nthe short term until the metro starts being built we will see economic growth pains because we did NOT build the infrastructure as we went and the high cost of housing. We will see in the short term 5 years or so correcting the problems created by previous bad neighbor development and growth.

We are only second in the country with traffic problems. The government is decentralizing and with new technologies there is not as big a need for business to locate here to do business with the feds. Further I really believe the winding down of Iraq is going to cause temporary economic problems for the dc area.

Being involved in the housing business I see and hear and talk first hand about the economic growth and we are the first to feel it see it and experience it. The rest of you see the effects way after we do in the way of layoffs and salary cuts etc. And if you think flex is a big economic engine well these big cavernous buildings don't house a lot of high paying jobs and certainly do take up a lot of real estate and do create a lot of truck traffic. ha ha ha I have seen flex litterly take over a part of a city in other parts of the country and actually stop the potential economic growth and scare away class A office and business's.

I have nothing against flex as long as it does not overwhelm an area to the point you can't attract the really good jobs and business's. Houston and Dallas are great examples were flex overwhelms major parts of the cities and where they are located the crime rate is much higher the truck traffic is horrendous and it looks just plain ugly, hence no first class developments around these areas or even close.

Lee j

 

How many private toll roads are there in the US? Do any of them have similar laws supporting them? Also, are any of them owned and operated by foreign enterprises? Couldn't the government easily take it back via eminent domain rules?
It is a main route out of DC in case of any emergencies. I, for one, am not comfortable with a foreign based company owning an important route out of our Nation's Capitol.

 

It's happening more and more. Indiana and Illinois have been selling off theirs as well.

 

1. If DC has a "major homeland security" emergency. I'm assuming that most DC area residents will want to go farther than Dulles. Also, I'd guess that there are enough cars to go bumper to bumper completely from DC to West Virginia.
2. I wasnt suggesting that we should be afraid of an Australian Company owning our roads. I was suggesting that it could be a STRATEGY employed to regain control of our road.

 

If it's a major emergency I don't think people will wait to pay the tolls at the plaza.

Also, Anyone know what kind of agreement the Greenway owners have with VA regarding the state troopers policing this road? Is that VA tax money being spent or do the owners pay the state?

 

The owners pay the state for the state police and any other police (Dulles Airport Police, Fairfax County, etc.) to patrol the toll road and greenway.

 

With regard to whether or not "foreigners" own the main toll road, please remember that Richmond is investigating selling the main toll road for over $1 billion. There is talk that the airport authority could get control of it or that it will be sold outright to the highest bidder. I would expect that those highest bidders will come from overseas. There have been several articles in the Post talking about what this would do to the tolls on the main toll road with some projections as high as $12 each way from Tysons to the Dulles Airport.

We have started down a very nasty road here. If this is the future of major roads in our area then why not spread the love around to the other parts of DC. Why does 66 get significant improvements and not have a toll? Why does 50 get improvements and no tolls? etc... We pay taxes which improve those roads but we also directly pay for the improvements for our roads via the tolls.

Why are we the only ones in the DC area (even the majority of the country) where our primary commuter artery is laden with tolls from our homes to our work?

 

The Dulles toll road will never never be sold as long as the airport owns the land underneath. The airport has already taken control and the subway is well underway engineering wise. Just waiting on the final approval of funding from the feds. the subway will be built and controlled by the airport board. All this will happen and there will be no major tunnel under tysons. The tunnel people just blew 3 million dollars of a developers money for nothing. They should have been working on a beautiful design for the above ground, instead of playing and wasting other peoples money. Tysons looks like a junkyard and I hope loudoun does not end up l like that. But it will if we don't get new elected supervisors that at least try to redirect development especially the junk developments now sprouting up in loudoun creating even more of a traffic nightmare and an eyesore.

When it comes to the silver line out to ashburn lets say a I know a little birdie that has the correct information.

Lee j

 

From the Post:

$1 Billion Offer Would Privatize Dulles Toll Road

Washington Post | July 26, 2005
By Steven Ginsberg and Lyndsey Layton

A consortium of the region's leading road builders and operators said yesterday that it plans to offer Virginia a lump sum of more than $1 billion in return for revenue generated by the Dulles Toll Road for the next 50 years.

The consortium said it also would pay for operations and maintenance of the road, one of Northern Virginia's main commuter routes. It would make 19 improvements, including construction of new access ramps from the Capital Beltway and other roads, repaving of the entire length and modernization of toll collection.
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The revenue paid by the consortium to the state could cover Virginia's share of extending Metrorail through Tysons Corner, a project estimated to cost $2.4 billion, up from the $1.5 billion figure that prevailed last year when the rail financing plan was set.

The proposal would push forward the frontier in Virginia's effort to privatize its transportation system and would be the latest in a small but growing number of such deals in the nation.

In recent years, Virginia has signed a handful of deals in which private groups agreed to build or widen roads in exchange for toll revenue. This deal would differ because it would exchange the tolls from an existing -- and profitable -- public highway for cash. Virginia would still own the road.

The group behind the proposal includes some of the biggest names in the road-building industry, including Clark Construction Group, Shirley Contracting, Dewberry LLC and Autostrade, which operates the Dulles Greenway, a private highway that links to the Dulles Toll Road. The group also includes former governor Gerald L. Baliles (D).

Consortium representatives said the proposal will be submitted today under the state's public-private transportation act.

"All the constituencies get what's important to them," said Curtis M. Coward, a principal of Infrastructure Investment Group, a member of the consortium. "We obviously see it as an investment, and toll payers will get something they would not get otherwise."

Public-private partnerships are popular among many state leaders of both major parties who see them as a way to improve the transportation system without raising taxes.

State transportation officials said they would reserve comment on the Dulles Toll Road proposal until it is filed.

Once the state receives the proposal, officials said they will solicit other offers. A review panel will be formed to consider all proposals and make a recommendation to the commissioner of the Virginia Department of Transportation, who will have the final say.

"Until we see an actual proposal, we're not in a position to comment," Virginia Transportation Secretary Pierce R. Homer said.

House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford), who has supported such private-sector proposals, said yesterday that he thinks the toll road idea is "a very solid concept that needs to be explored. It isn't just the Dulles Toll Road. There are a lot of opportunities."

In a June speech to the Fredericksburg Regional Chamber of Commerce, Howell said Virginia should consider selling its largest, most profitable toll roads to private companies.

In the speech, he compared the idea to Chicago's decision to lease its Skyway toll road for $1.8 billion and a Texas plan to allow private firms to build the Trans-Texas Corridor for $1.2 billion in exchange for the rights to operate the toll project for 50 years.

The downside to the Dulles Toll Road proposal is that Virginia would lose a moneymaker for the next half-century, and some state leaders questioned why the state would relinquish that money. Others said Virginia should raise the money it needs by selling bonds and keeping control of the cash generated by the toll road.

About 200,000 vehicles a day use the Dulles Toll Road. Toll rates, which range from 50 to 75 cents, would continue to be controlled by the state. In fiscal 2005, which ended June 30, the tolls generated a $28.5 million surplus.

Although money from the deal could enable Virginia to pay its share of at least the Tysons phase of what eventually would be a rail line through Dulles International Airport, the additional money would not guarantee the project's construction.

Under the financing plan for the first phase, half the money would come from the federal government, a quarter from Dulles Toll Road collections and other state revenue and the rest from a tax on commercial property owners along the train route.

But cost estimates for the first phase, which would run from West Falls Church through Tysons Corner, rose 60 percent last month to $2.4 billion. The higher price tag jeopardizes federal approval because cost-effectiveness is a key factor in deciding whether to approve projects.

 

So if someone buys the toll road for a billion can they ask the state to raise the toll and claim they are not making a profit?

It's going to be another greenway.....

 

Hey everyone this is very old news and the airport is now is charge. Nobody is going to buy the toll road. The airport deal is a done deal. Just waiting for the feds to ok their part of the money.

Lee j

 

Ummm, and then we, the users of the toll road, pay higher rates.

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.
She swallowed the cat to catch the spider,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly, I don't know why, she swallowed the fly, perhaps she'll die.

I don't know why that song POPPED into my noggin!

 

I have learned never to trust Richmond when it comes to the DC area.

I am not sure about you but the statement that the Airport Authority will use the tolls on the main toll road (267 from Dulles to Tysons) to cover the cost of constructing the metro scares the heck out of me.

They bumped up the tolls from $.85 from Dulles to 495 to $1.25 just to cover the feasibility study. I cannot imagine what the cost will be if the tolls will fund the contruction effort.

Again, the concept here is not who owns the road but the amount of tolls on it and why are we being targeted. Has anywhere else in the DC area had to pay directly for the construction of their metro lines and stops?

My point is to make it fair...if this is the way of the future then fine but they should put up tolls on all the roads to cover the costs of maintaining and enhancing those roads.

Finally, let's get real on all of this.... the tolls on the main toll road are a tax... flat and simple but they don't want to call it a tax....