Broadlands Hospital

You're right, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Some base them on facts, some on assumptions, some on conjecture, some on ulterior motives, some on the fear of the unknown.

A few points to address your concerns:

1. "Hospital" is specifically listed in PDOP Zoning under Special Exception approval. Special Exception is a common process. The last Board approved 84 of 85 requests. There are dozens of uses available via Special Exception.
2. True. The bulk of the traffic will be during normal buisiness hours which is when the medical office buildings will be open. The amount of weekend traffic generated will be less that that generated by Clyde's. This comes from the county's traffic studies.
3. If someone is against the occasional helicopter, that's fine. In the last application, HCA pulled the helipad from their plans. We'll see what they do this time around.
4. Already been well discussed.
5. They plan to build a parking garage as well as a multi-level parking deck to ensure more than enough parking.
6. Not sure what you mean here. I back to Truro Parish and there is never ANY cars parked on it. It has no shoulder and is curbed. I'm assuming you are referring to another road?
If you mean Glebe View, I would expect the traffic to be reduced once Broadlands Blvd is completed. All of the traffic that currently cuts through Glebe View and Truro Parish to get to Belmont Ridge will be eliminated.

I doubt any of this will change your opinion, but thought I'd offer it up to anyone else reading.

 

The property was never zoned for it originally

Very few parcels are zoned for hospital/healthcare. If you read the news, EVERY hospital project going in around here needs or needed an exception to get built.

It's 24 x 7 x 365 the hospital never closes and traffic everyday

A majority of the high-traffic hospital services such as rehab and outpatient services are not 24/7/365. Most hospitals have visiting hours that prevent much traffic in and out of the hospital during evening and night hours. So yes, the hospital is always open, but for almost 12 hours a day it's mostly staff and "resident" patients in the building. During off-hours the most traffic will be urgent or emergent, which while it may contribute to additional road volume, shouldn't turn the local roads into non-stop traffic jams or race tracks. Yes, during business hours, there will be traffic into and out of the facility, but isn't that roughly the same as anything else that could be built on the land? I don't see this as an issue specific to a hospital.

I know I'll get the responses from the crowd of supporters saying that they have researched this for hundreds of hours and my statements are wrong. They are entitled to there opininons and that is what makes this a great country. [emphasis mine]
I'm not saying you're wrong, since you are right -- we are all entitled to opinions, plus you raise valid concerns. As a supporter, I support the hospital at this point -- I'm not locked to a location and am keeping a very open mind about that as I learn more about the issue. However it also concerns me that you know people have done "hundreds of hours" of research and yet dismiss the facts they found as if they were meaningless. Doesn't their work count for something, and deserve some consideration?

 

Cliff,

Your right I meant Glebe View my mistake, I just think if somebody is on Waxpool/Truro Parish headed west from the Greenway they are not going to go all the way to Belmont Ridge when they can make a right on Glebe View. Wow! Weekend traffic less than Clyde's that is great so now I can only run into the occassional person who makes a left onto Broadlands Boulevard but is either impaired or doesn't know how to drive and ends up driving down the wrong side of the road. Happened again last Sunday night at 9:30pm. I wish they would set up a DUI Checkpoint to catch the drunks. "Special Exemption" I must have missed that 8 years ago when moving into the area I didn't see that on the map. I'm glad to hear that a pretty parking garage will solve the problem in fact more than one problem. Now the kids will be able to skateboard over there and when they wipe out they can just go down a few levels to get repaired. Thanks for pointing that out.

We will still say NO and join a lot of other people who don't want it here.

Genco

 

The arguments against the Broadland's hospital sound very similar to the arguments heard before Clyde's was approved. I'd say time has proven those concerns false and Clyde's has been a wonderful addition to the neighborhood.

The weak case against the hospital is nothing but NIMBY and corporate sponsored fear mongering.

 

Reason I am FOR the hospital:
1. Who cares what it was originally zoned for. Rezonings happen daily! Your "home" use to be a farm!
2. Why have a fullly functioning hospital that closes? Traffic?!?!? PLEASE!
3. Helipad - I would bet not more than 1-2 a week and who says that it will be 0'dark hundred.
4. It is well-known that ambulances turn off their sirens within a certain distance to a hospital for almost ALL "deliveries". Even more so when a hospital is located in a residential area.
5. Never have had a parking issue at Loudoun. NEVER!
6. Speeding, talk to your neighbors about this issue since it is THEM doing it.

And yes, you are entitled to your opinions like everyone else. But is some cases it is not opinion, it is fact.

You have a great Holiday Season too!

 

A hospital in this community is preposterous. Broadlands is a housing community, it didn't start as a town center first and given the location of Loundoun Hospital in Leesburg makes zero sense to build one here. State the facts or conjecture all you want...:rolleyes3:

 

AFGM - Ashburn Farm Resident? While the hospital will be able to serve your needs, it's not in your neighborhood.

T8erman - Shouting and yelling that is nice and constructive. Facts can be used either way. The fact is I'm not for the hospital and you are that is fine but why be so offensive about it? There are a lot of things that are facts but that doesn't mean they are right.

The I was comparing a hospital that is open all the time versus an office building that for the most part is not open all the time. Speeding isn't just your neighbors it's the people who are also rushing to get to the LCPS Admin building as I have witnessed many of times.

Holiday Season? That explains a lot.

 

Please, let's not let this thread degrade too much. It's about the hospital, not about "Holiday Season" versus "Christmas". There's another thread somewhere for that.

 

I think our HOA president is making the stupidest argument I have ever heard. I went to the Barnes & Noble near Reston Hospital, and the residential there is sooooo much more urban than here. This argument is very disingenous. Also Inova Fairfax borders very few suburban single family homes. In fact I think that the main residential that borders the campus is a few apartments. Fair Oaks hospital has a lot of residential around it, but maybe I should not mention that fact or distort it to support my argument.

Honestly I am not even sure I am against a hospital here, but I hate when people make false arguments.

I appreciate all those that are active in our community, but sometimes wonder where someone finds the "hundreds" of hours to "study" the issue at other hospitals. Admins here, people on HOA committees, Broadlands Live, and other community eventsI really appreciate. I have tremendous guilt for my non existent civic role. But I still find this amount of time a bit odd. Maybe that explains the crankiness.

 

Honestly these are more persuasive arguments. Especially if the majority of the traffic would be entering from Belmont Ridge or the Greenway.

 

I will say the ones pushing it the most don't even live close to it.

As said before the other hospitals have URBAN condos and apartment and apartments and the hospitals were there first so people had a choice to live there or not.

This is more of what is what is wrong with this county cram things into places they should not go. Waxpool has those junk flex buildings and commercial surrounded by residential that was there first. What is some on these broads attitude about homes that were there first their attitude is the homes are a mistake Well the county and developers and this was reported in the paper recently said the commercial was the real mistake.

Well here is my attitude professionals should be doing the land planning that have no emotional or financial attachment to the development. We have seen when homeowners with no professional experience have done to our communities and as planning commissioners. They make horrible decisions at times that we must live with forever. We professionals with no emotional or financial attachment to do our land planning and decide how developments approved.

The county which started off beautifully with countyside the farms and ashburn village is now staring to look like garbage outside of the puds and why. Amateurs are making decisions far beyond their expertise.

Cliff and others have a serious emotional involvement in this and perhaps should stand back for awhile. And let others and we should get a non emotionally and with no financial ties or emotional ties outside of the DC area to evaluate this hospital proposal. Use google maps or whatever satellite mapping program and look at what is around the reston and loudoun hospitals they are in urban town center settings and the mulifamily close to them was designed afterwars as urban living not suburban living which you have here. And the homes in the farms on the other side of the toll rd are actuallly colser to this hospital then the braodlands homes. So what is this they move it colser to the farms and screw them so the hospital moves further away from the broadland homes. Typical amateur attitude not looking at the big picture and only seeing what they want to.

As far as the commercial that should be built on that site . It should look like residential to blend in with the residential character of the area like Clyde's and keep those residential style office in a park like setting. And don't let the site engineers tear all the trees down that is just the lazy way of site engineering which I fight them on everyday. The school administration building is totally out of character with the area too and shows how much sensitivity and design ability our school people have.

Don't let these pro hospital people scare you that property can developed as office with an residential character in a park like setting. And that is what should of be built there and the hospital moved to a proper setting like by verizon aol area included with road improvements to help alleviate the waxpool problem not make it worse getting to the braodlands.

I am sick and tired after what has happened on waxpool and other areas that these amateur planners call everyone that disagrees they built or bought in a mistake. The only mistake is the way the amateur planners think not thinking outside of the box to make everyone happy. THere are many ways to make a project work for for all the neighbors and that starts with building the right development for that site in the first place.

And I will say van metre did a piss poor job in integrating the commercial into the boadlands compared to many many other puds. The broadlands as beautiful as it is, is old school planning and the commercial if not done right will make or break the final outcome in the broadlands. Office does not have to look like a sterile cold box it can look like a home also and be built in a park like setting if you reign in and guide the engineers not the other way around.

Well it is up to you broadland residents if you want the commercial office to look like residential in a park like setting or just bulldoze down everything and build sterile ugly buildings like the school administration building and a misplaced hospital even with the buffer it is still too close to homes on both sides of the toll road.

I will post some beautifully designed and sited residential office and you can see what you could have, later this week.

Lee j

 

try having a baby in the Feb or Jan. time frame of '08 . Loudon, Reston, and Fairfax are struggling to find beds for all the expecting mothers..there is quite a need...

 

THere is a need it is just the location that is in question, and the continuing saga of the amateur's and amateur planning commissioners making poor decisions in approving development both commercial and residential. The poor approval of many commercial projects is just as bad as the approval of poor residential projects. Hopefully in the haste to build a commercial tax base we don't ruin Loudoun even more!!!!!

Lee j

 

How and where do you get that I was offensive, shouting and yelling? You must be some sorta savant who can interrupt these things in written words. And the few words I typed in all CAPS were for emphasis. WHEN EVERYTHING IS IN CAPS IT IS CONSIDERED YELLING!
I also used some smileys!

Trust me, you will know when I am truly being offensive. I can be good at it!

So back to some facts.

A 24x7 hospital would generate less traffic than an office complex. Shift work would spread the workforce out while an office park would generate traffic during the typical rush hours.
There is already plenty of office space in NoVa but not enough hospital beds.
IF HCA does not build in Broadlands in the next few years, Loudoun will not see a new hospital for a good 10-20 years!

 

Would it be comparing apples to oranges to compare this particular hospital project and the other nearby hospitals with other counties in other states, perhaps, that have (or have had) similar population growth and similar development, albeit different population demographics to Loudoun county?

If not, please read no further, as you would find all the rest of this irrelevant.

Anyway, this is just a straightforward explanation of my confusion pertaining to a specific issue -- that "hospitals don't belong in residential".

Many years ago I used to live in Palm Beach county, FL (yes, the "hanging chad" capital of the nation), in an area that at the time began to experience a huge surge in population growth. Not just the stereotypical elderly that everyone thinks dominate South Florida. Young families with children began moving in and snapping up houses as fast as they could be built. So much so that schools were in the space of a year or two overwhelmed, and new schools needed to be built. And soon enough, the demand for healthcare services soon outstripped the supply.
Tenet, HCA, and a local community hospital began a three-way legal battle for the CON and an exception to build a new hospital to serve the increasing population expansion further west, away from the ocean. The land they were fighting over was located directly adjacent on two sides to a very high-price, upscale development called "Aberdeen," populated by some of the wealthier of the southern Florida residents of the area. And to the best of my knowledge, there was very little pushback from the communities about the building of a hospital so close to their residential area. the whole argument was over who got to build the hospital, not whether or not it would be built.
As a basis for comparison, ALL of the existing hospitals in that area are in or very near residential - developed/managed, or just regular unmanaged neighborhoods - not "city-center" type development. In fact, hospitals in the area tended to be away from the "city centers." I can name off the top of my head four hospitals, including the community hospital, that are built near or surrounded by residential. The only one I make exception for is the community hospital, which was built so long ago that even the surrounding residential wasn't anywhere as populated as it is now.

Another example: Where I grew up in New Jersey, there are hospitals embedded in the middle of residential areas all over - one even right next to a High School, both of which are surrounded by residential. In fact, in my experience growing up and thru what limited life I've so far led, the only place I recall seeing hospitals that aren't surrounded or at least near residential areas are in truly urban environments -- like the hospitals in downtown DC, Boston, Philadelphia, except in some instances where hospitals are attached to universities that are surrounded by residential, like Georgetown Hospital's current location directly across the street from Burleith, and just up the road from the residential areas of Georgetown itself. Boradlands isn't urban, nothing out this way in Loudoun or even immediately adjacent Fairfax counties is urban, no matter what developers want to call their "city centers."
I respectfully don't agree with this idea that hospitals don't belong in residential, even if the residential was here first. And I certainly don't understand any of the rationales being offered to back up that sentiment. Over and over and over again I see it working, and working well.
Sometimes, we can learn from the successes of others as well as the failures. you know, seeing the forest and the trees.

 

Lee, you are more emotional than most of us combined!
In almost any thread that even hints of development or building something you go off on long diatribes about beauty, land usage and architectual integrity (like money is not an issue ).

 

T8erman

"Trust me, you will know when I am truly being offensive. I can be good at it!"

Based upon your posts you are correct and I don't doubt that you can be offensive. Wait that is another fact and not somebody's opinion.

 

I just went to the largest hospital in Broward County (just south of Palm Beach County). I have always considered the three southeast counties of Florida to be kind of the same urban area. There was some residential near it, but the majority of the neighbors seemed to be commercial, retail, or higher density residential.

I have trouble articulating some of my objections, and this thread is sooo long that I am sure everything has already been stated.

I don't think that the fact that some, if not many, current hospitals are currently in residential areas means that it is good.

I think most of the office/commercial that would go in that spot would be the type where a lot of people work but you don't have a lot of customers/clients in and out. Think like a law office, or an architect. You do have some client meetings but most of the people coming in and out on a consistent basis are the regular employees of the office. It just seems to me that those people would feel a little more connected with the community.

With a hospital a lot of the "clients" are patients who come in only a few times each decade, so they feel no connection to the community.

Just a thought, I hope I articulated this angle well enough.

 

OK T8 I found when a project is done beautifully and is a good neighbor and is the right mix for the area it makes way more money then cramming it down peoples throats.

Wait and see the flex built on the corner is going to have a tough time leasing and to lease it the developer is going to have to give away the store in order to fill it up. The flex next door on murder dr is a good example of a project having an extremely hard time filling up and keeping tenants, and that was during the good market now that we are going into a down market these people will get clobbered.

Back to the hospital site a residential style office project in a park like setting is what is appropriate for that site and most of the rest of the commercial property left in the broadlands which is the appropriate fit for a suburban development. You all are trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

As far as hospitals in other locations give me the name and address of them and I will do a search and look at the satellite view of what is really around the hospitals.

You all said reston was surrounded by residential but it is urban not suburban and the hospitals was built first.

further just because something was built in other areas incorrectly does not mean we should repeat those mistakes here. There is just too many other appropriate sites available here. Broadlands is a suburban pud not an urban pud or town center. Brambleton has land that is more appropriate for a hospital then the broadlands and closer to dulles south. and better access to all the new developments off evergreen and the new arcola town center. You are not going to get much development west on the greenway because it has been all voted down and these new county supervisors are not going to approve any during the next four years. All the new major residential development which has been approved is evergreen rd and dulles south areas. Around us is going to be urban with moorefield and loudoun station wich makes building it by aol verizon more sense. People there will be very little development west of the broadlands for the foreseeable future if ever most of that land is in the transition zoning or rural except a little in the slow growrth leesburg. So far west on the greenway does not make any sense either because that is not where all the new development is going to take place over the next years. The subway stops at the home depot so moorefield even make more sense.

You all are selling the public a bill of goods as far as population growth around the broadlands hospital it is no the edge of development not in the middle of it. and it is out of character of the suburban and rural and transition it adjoins.

Lee j