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Eight-car pileup @Waxpool & Loudoun County Parkway

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by chattycat, Feb 12, 2009.

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  1. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    Reread what Nuke said. He did not say someone was being chased he said he was there and witnessing what had happened that was his 1st thought. Obviously, that was not the case here.

    Staci
     
    msflynn, Feb 13, 2009
    #21
  2. wahoogeek

    wahoogeek New Member

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    Yep. This pretty much covers it.
     
    wahoogeek, Feb 13, 2009
    #22
  3. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    The intersection, especially turning right from the LCP onto Waxpool Road, is not designed well. As you are waiting your turn to merge after you stop, you are forced to look back hard to your left, AWAY from the direction of your travel. What happened to me last year, is that the car in front of me took off to merge, and changed his mind at the last second and slammed to a stop. In the meantime, I had looked back waiting for my opening, and when I had one, I accelerated, running into the back of the car that had gone, and then stopped.

    I was at fault for not making sure that the car in front of me had indeed made the merge, but until that day, I had driven 28 years accident free. Fortunately, there were no injuries.

    I think any intersection which forces you to look away from your direction of travel is poorly designed, and I would wager a tidy sum that most of the accidents at this intersection are at that particular point.
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #23
  4. latka

    latka Active Member

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    Wouldn't any right turn force you to look away?
     
    latka, Feb 15, 2009
    #24
  5. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    There is no merge - it's a controlled intersection with a stop; not a no-stop turn lane. The idea that even subconsciously you look at it as a merge shows that you aren't looking to stop and look both ways. You don't stop and then look to merge. You stop and pull out into traffic when it is safe to do so.

    The intersection is nearly 90 deg.. in fact the east bound traffic is coming at you from slightly less then 90deg. The only way you would have to 'look behind' you is if you have already pulled out too far.

    In other words.. you were so pressed to pull out into traffic in a rush, you failed to look both ways and were accelerating without even looking the direction your car was moving.

    There is no need to drive this way at this intersection - it's controlled. You were too hurried to drive safe and defensively.

    Sorry, as you said, you were at fault. There is no fault to put on the intersection when a driver is too impatient to wait for a safe transition or can't wait for the signal (since you were turning right on red).

    The only reason you had to look behind was because you must have been too far out and turning eastbound already. You can look at the intersection on any map. It's a perfect 90 deg crossing.

    Your tale IS true to many of the accidents there - people trying to cut corners, push the envelope, and generally try to rush things. None of which has anything to do with the design of the intersection. Just the fact people are too impatient.
     
    flynnibus, Feb 15, 2009
    #25
  6. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    Of course, but at most intersections, once the car in front of you has proceeded through the intersection, they are gone. At this intersection, they can proceeed through the stop sign like they are going, and have time to stop without entering the lanes of traffic. It may not be a merge lane, per say, but it acts like one. In the meantime, the next person in line is looking behind them for an open slot so that they can proceed. If you fail to make sure the car in front of you didn't stop, like I did, it's easy for accidents to happen. I take full responsibility for it, but that doesn't mean it's not a poorly designed intersection. Furthermore, I think it's important that drivers not proceed through that stop sign unless they know they can make into that first lane of traffic. Going through and then stopping is an accident waiting to happen. The number of accidents there proves the point.
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #26
  7. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    Perhaps, but I didn't feel rushed or feel like I was cutting corners. I think the DOT should handle that intersection like they do making the same right turn coming back from Wegman's or Target. What is that, Pacific Blvd? For the right hand turn traffic onto Waxpool, you cannot go until you have a green light. That's what they need for the right hand turn lane from the LCP to Waxpool.
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #27
  8. mats_30

    mats_30 New Member

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    So instead of a complete redesign of the intersection, wouldn't a "No turn on Red" sign solve the problem as well?
     
    mats_30, Feb 15, 2009
    #28
  9. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    I don't think so. This is making a right hand turn from the LCP to Waxpool Road from the NOVA Medical Group/Airbus side of the LCP, in which the right hand turn takes you towards Ashburn. Not the other side, where the right hand turn takes you towards AOL and Wegman's. That being the case, since the right hand turn lane takes you away from the main traffic light, I think a set up like they have at Pacific Blvd. would work best, where they have a dedicated light for those making that right hand turn onto Waxpool.

    The addition of a dedicated light would fix the problem without the necessity of a complete redesign.
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #29
  10. mats_30

    mats_30 New Member

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    Really? Who needs a new street light 'away from the main light' to know not to merge into oncoming traffic? Isn't this basic driving skills?
     
    mats_30, Feb 15, 2009
    #30
  11. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    Why is there now one on Pacific Blvd./Waxpool Road, when there wasn't one there before?
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #31
  12. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    Stealth, could you cut down on bolding all the text in your posts? Thanks!
     
    Mr. Linux, Feb 15, 2009
    #32
  13. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    I sure can. Will you please tell me why it's a concern? Thanks!!
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #33
  14. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    Just proper forum etiquette... Just like typing in all-caps is considered 'yelling', bolding your posts is both distracting and considered 'yelling' as well.

    Thanks for your understanding.
     
    Mr. Linux, Feb 15, 2009
    #34
  15. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    Oh, OK, not a problem at all. I know about the CAPS, but not the bolding. No more bolding for me!! Thanks for the information.
     
    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #35
  16. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Accident rate means little about the design of the intersection when its the fault of the drivers and their choices that cause the accidents.

    True colors show now... I thought we weren't impatient???

    I believe we are talking about opposite sides of the intersection. You didn't mention your direction in your initial posts. You are talking about the turn lane to get onto Waxpool heading westbound. I was talking about the light to turn eastbound on Waxpool.

    The stop sign on that turn lane is dumb - because there should never be a stop sign on a merge lane. But that side has no merge lane and people around here are too selfish to figure out how to allow people to merge in those situations. Drive in other areas (even just PA north of baltimore) and similar intersections merge right onto the Interstate at speed. They work because those on the interstate are aware enough to move over when necessary. You need competent drivers on both sides of the road to make such intersections work. Yet, that isn't going to happen around here with the types of drivers we have.

    That turn lane should not be setup that way because of the lack of a shoulder or merge lane. The fix would be to make the current turn off lane a merge lane, cut the shoulder back so it continues with the turn lane.. and probably kill the access to the Guardian location there.. forcing traffic to enter from the other interchange near the hotel.

    That was done to 'steal' the lane on the eastern side of the intersection so it can continue straight through the intersection... giving higher capacity on waxpool during rush times. It's a poor man's cheat to steal some more capacity out of waxpool.

    The irony is you talk about traffic backing up.. have you not seen what happens at the Waxpool light at Wegmans? The no right on red really hinders traffic.

    The political inability to address the root problem of miserable driver skills causes us to continually build these dumbed down intersections as the 'solution' to the problem. Never mind the state lacks any ability it seems to build an intersection that looks anything more then 6 months into the future. Some of the access cuts to Waxpool that have been allowed in the last 10+ years are absolutely STUPID and contribute to the need of more lights and more traffic on the road.
     
    flynnibus, Feb 15, 2009
    #36
  17. L0stS0ul

    L0stS0ul hmmmm

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    I think, with the drivers around here, the only way to solve these traffic problems is to make all intersections be cloverleafs :genius:

    The way people around here don't seem to understand four way stops (heck all are dangerous):scaredeyes:, forget yeilding it does not exist around here :drive:, and simple stop signs seem to be completely ignored :conf3:, there is just no good answer :pofl:
     
    L0stS0ul, Feb 15, 2009
    #37
  18. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    Stealth, Feb 15, 2009
    #38
  19. Tech Head

    Tech Head New Member

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    I don't know why they couldn't make the far right lane of eastbound Waxpool at the intersection for the exclusive use of traffic turning right off of northbound LCP. Just shift the two lanes of eastbound Waxpool at the intersection onto the left two lanes. You would have to put in permanent traffic cones, but I've seen that in plenty of places.

    You would then have a fulltime right hand turn off LCP onto Waxpool. Am I missing somethinger here?
     
    Tech Head, Feb 16, 2009
    #39
  20. merky1

    merky1 Member

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    The problem is that the intersection was designed to handle two lanes in each direction, but with expansion and upgrading, it is now handling more than designed.

    Some one needs to start over, and rethink that intersection from the view of current capacity, instead of "patching" the problem with stop signs and no turn on reds...
     
    merky1, Feb 16, 2009
    #40
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