Broadlands Hospital

Silence, I apologize if you think this was a jab. As it happens so often on this forum... if you don't agree with those posting one is critized, ridiculed and slandered. It seems that more serious and mean spirited "jabs" are thrown by people other than me and a simple quote should not indicate that I have ever mischaracterized or misinformed. It is apparent that those who feel competition in healthcare equates to competition in retail truly do not understand the healthcare industry...

If you and others don't have enough conviction in your views to state your true names, then discussing anything in a civilized manner is pointless.

 

cant get the links to expand the map - maybe user error.

As I stated you are correct there are NO SFH next door to Reston Hospital. I cant agrue this b/c it is a fact, however to 'label' those urban townhomes and condos and state 'they dont count" is selective and a weak debate (b/c I cant win it) LOL!

I also cant make you see that Inova has a monopoly in NoVa Healthcare and nearly every one of their hospital complexes are tucked into housing communities.

Will BRMC have an impact on the SFH across the street? it may- depends on the homeowner
Is HCA as bad as some people try to represent them ? maybe
Is Inova just as guilty...IMO you bet.
Has Donna done some great things for Inova & Broadlands? YES - she had INova pick up Broadlands Live (after HCA dropped the ball), Flu shots and other nice community type events.

IMO: The commonwealth certified that Loudoun has a need for more hospital beds and as a resident it would be nice to have an alternative choice. However when I read and hear the Inova continues to strong arm their weight and authority (ei cornwall)...I will continue driving into Reston...its the closest place I have a choice from Inova. Am I set on the location of BRMC? nope still making my mind up

 

No need for an apology, especially when it is not sincere! That's what you truly think, which is fine with me. I was amused that someone whose job is to influence others would call undecided people cowards ("uncourageous"). And I continue to be amused at your tone--it is condescending and merely plays into the (apparently false?) characterizations people have of you.

I love open debate and enjoy being proven wrong. As a neophyte to this area, please do educate me on why the healthcare industry is different from other fields with respect to competition. I truly do not understand why one hospital/healthcare organization would actively lobby against another. I would assume Vince at Subway doesn't want other sub shops opening close by, but I doubt you'd find him creating a website and sending out emails knocking Quiznos.

Again, as an impartial observer, it does seem that some of your statements certainly cross the line...just as both republicans and democrats mischaracterize each other. I find that unneccessary in such a debate as this. After complaining that you get ridiculed, you then resort to ridiculing others. Classic.

I just reread your last statement (If you and others don't have enough conviction in your views to state your true names...) and now I see why people would characterize you as strident and illogical at times. No need to attack others, Donna, that seems awfully thin-skinned from someone in your position.

The reason I post anonymously (besides the fact that I love the historical irony of the original Silence Dogood) is that I have a business that I run based out of Broadlands. Though our scope is national and I do more work outside of the area, I prefer to keep my political views separate from my business. Besides, if someone's point is valid and logical, does it matter whether they are anonymous or not? I hope someone who cares about you bought you a Dale Carnegie book or some classic PR tomes for Christmas!!

 

Donna,

What exactly is the difference between health care and retail competition? Both are in business to attract customers, employees, and market share. I am not sure there is a difference. In fact, I'd be very interested to hear any argument that health care competition is different than retail.

I found this definition that I think defines competition from my viewpoint:
Business Definition for: Competition

• A healthy rivalry between companies to achieve greater market share. Competition between companies for customers will lead to product innovation and improvement, and ultimately, lower prices. The opposite of market competition is either a monopoly or a controlled economy, where production is governed by quotas. A controlled market or monopoly leads to lethargy in market innovation and improvements; it also leads to higher prices.

 

I guess I'll step into the deep end of the swimming pool and provide my input.

I did live directly across Broadlands Blvd from the BRMC property on the Stonewheel Way corner, our reason for selling and moving earlier this year had nothing to do with BRMC being built but everything to do with retirement planning. Although I no longer live there, I was very pro hospital when I lived there, and you can search through the forums for reasons why I was for the hospital.

As for property values and sales, not one person/couple expressed a concern about a hospital being built across the street from our former house. We certainly didn't hear from every propective buyer's realtor, but not one that we heard from mentioned the hospital as a concern or negative. Whereas we did hear many concerns about our lot being too close to the Blvd, nothing was ever mentioned about the lot across the Blvd. While it took us almost 9 months to sell and we did have to drop the price, I don't believe that you'll find that is any different than any of the other homes for sale during the past year to year and a half.

So, I guess I can say that 100% of the realtors who viewed our house didn't have a problem with a hospital being built directly across the Blvd from our home. Oh, I'm sorry. Did I use an anti-hosptial tactic?

By the way, ask Donna about the waste incinerator rumor she started back in the beginning of these discussions. This even surprised BRMC because they never had one in their plans (and there won't be one!). So I'm sure her new site will be filled with other such rumors provided by her employer who will certainly reward ($$) her during her performance review.

In all of these pro and con discussions, I can understand and agree with not wanting a hospital built and the land staying as it is now -- wooded. However, when I compare the by-right (i.e., no concessions) paved parking lots and office buildings to a hospital that provides HOA and county concessions, plus provides a service that everyone needs at one time or another -- healthcare, it's a no brainer.

 

I have mentioned this before and yet to see a valid reason - Why do we need a hospital here, when there is one apx 5 miles away (or less). It's not like the traffic is so horrible that you wouldn't make it to landsdowne via claiborne in < 10 minutes.

 

jj, the hospitals are going in to support the County based on east west corridors; route 7 by Loudoun Hospital; Greenway by HCA; and Route 50 by who ever is next. It's following the population patterns.

Remember HCA and INOVA both have said that Route 50 is not built out to support a hospital. Regardless of what Snow said.

 

Now that is a nice simple answer, I appreciate that AFGM. Now I'll at least feel a bit more educated why this is such a big issue.

My next question, well more of an assumption - those behind this hospital in broadlands have done the research to prove that the population can support it?

 

Boy you all are brutal... I'm glad you said you like me as a person cuz I can't imagine what you'd say if you didn't.

To clear up a few misconceptions that have started:

Silence, I never said those people that are undecided on this issue are cowards, please read the quote a little more closely.

I never knew it was my job to convice people... believe it or not but I speak for and work with HUNDREDS of Broadlands residents who are against this location...

Yes Greg, 6 years ago when the incinerator was discussed I was working with the information I had, that has not been an area of concern since then.

As Cliff mentioned, you can read a persons tone on these forums in emotions that are not intended, so to say I was being condescending is another mistruth.

I appreciate the heated debate this topic brings, but don't put words in my mouth or assault my character.

 

Yes, but without anonymity there would be no more blogs!!! Or maybe that's a good thing!

 

One of my favorites was the pictures of needles and medical debris, claiming that it was found "lying around" hospital grounds, including outside Reston Hospital. Turns out the pictures were looking INTO medical waste containers!

Of course, before I found out the truth, I actually did go to Reston Hospital and poke around their dumpster area. It was clean. So I guess the joke was on me!

 

There are many facts that would support this. One of the more compelling is that 52% of Loudoun residents leave the county for hospital care.

Another statistic is the number of hospital beds per 1000 residents. I don't have the exact numbers, but the nationwide average is something like 3-4/1000. I think Loudoun is somewhere around .6 to .8/1000 residents.
I'm sure if/when the BRMC application is activiated, you'll see all the stats and numbers presented.

 

Gator-
That is a valid point. But it doesn't negate the point that residential around hospitals is common. One can argue about the TYPE of residential or about which came first.
Also, many, many homes in Broadlands have been bought and sold over the past few years in close proximity to the hospital site. I personally know of several purchasers and the hospital did not deter them. Is it possible that some home shoppers decided against a house near the site? That's possible, too.

 

Donna,

Now that we are back to the debate, do you have an answer to my question about your claim of competition being different between healthcare and retail?

 

Um, no need to assault your character, you do a fine job with your posts already. Your words are yours, not mine

But, yes, please do enlighten us as to:
1. How is competition in the healthcare industry different from retail?
2. Why would one hospital (or business) actively lobby agaionst the building of another hospital?

Thanks.

 

Because they can.

If I wanted to build a Burger King across the street from McDonalds, or a FedEx store across the street from the UPS store, those businesses can't lobby the state or county government claiming that my business is not needed.
But if they could make such a legal challenge, don't you think they would?

Healthcare is a heavily-regulated market. HC organizations need several ducks in a row to be able to build a facility, primarily certificates of need, and in this area anyway zoning exceptions, a lot of things required by local, state, and federal laws that simply don't exist for other retail entities.

Also, the primary reason (in my understanding) that healthcare companies duke it out is not to prevent the building of a facility - it's to prevent the building of a facility by a competitor. Hospitals, despite their core mission of providing healthcare to sick people, are still businesses (even not-for-profits). A new hospital can and will take business away from existing hospitals, especially if the new hospitals are putting in high-revenue producers like cardiac care, rehab, and similar services. You want to see cut-throat healthcare battles? Watch a hospital try to start up open-heart surgery services. That could take many, many years of battle with competing hospitals challenging them over and over and over.

It's competition -- but with the added dimension of laws, rules, and regulations making it easier for existing hospitals to prevent new hospitals from being built if they play the game right. Which they often do, because they want to keep their business.

Hope this helps. Maybe someone can explain it a bit more coherently than I can.

Edit:
And the point I don't think I'm clearly getting across, but hope I am -- is that "competition" the way it works in healthcare is almost always aimed at the existing facilities trying to prevent the new facilities or new services from coming to market. Such does not meet the definition AGFM posted for healthy competitition:

 

Thanks for the explanation, Techno, though my question was rhetorical in nature, designed to elicit just this kind of answer from Donna to prove my point. This is a cut-throat move by an existing hospital to prevent another hospital from being built, solely for business purposes, not for the good of the community. It is about self-interest, which by the way I am completely for when it comes to a business. I just wish they would be upfront about it and say, "We are trying to eliminate competition to protect our bottom line." Fair enough.

If I were a shareholder or stakeholder in INOVA, I would applaud this kind of tactic perhaps and be on board. But since I am a consumer of healthcare (who as a self-employed person pays my own insurance fully), I want competition.

I eagerly await Donna's explanation for why competition--or having another hospital prividing health care services in this market--is NOT good for consumers.

 

Ooops, sorry. I think....
But at least I know it made some sense outside of my own head.

 

I'd like to stay on the list, as long as inclusion does not count me as one of the hundreds you speak for.