Broadlands Hospital

I'll give an example of a benefit of competition that we personally experienced.

My daughter bit through her lip and required stitches. We went to Reston HCA Hospital and were immediately seen. We said we wanted a plastic surgeon to stitch her up but, the plastic surgeon on call at Reston was already busy with a more serious case. We were assured that the ER doc would do fine and we could see a plastic surgeon in the morning and if necessary the plastic surgeon could reopen the wound and restitch it. This was not a satisfactory answer for how I wanted my little girl treated but they said that there was no one else around. So, I said we were packing up and going to Fairfax Inova hospital and if necessary to G'town or Washington Hosp. As we were getting ready to go, the nurse came in to say that they made a call to an off-duty plastic surgeon who lived near by. A few minutes later she arrived and did a great job.

Competition is a beautiful thing. If HCA wants to compete here for my healthcare dollar, let them in.

I have lived very near a big hospital (with a helipad - those choppers would go ~100' above our house a few times a month - it was not a bother and the kids loved it). It was convenient and a benefit to the community.

-Jim

 

Jim, you obviously don't understand anything about the healthcare industry. Oh, according to Donna anyway. I'll leave it to her to explain why competition isn't good for consumers, though.

 

On a fair note to Loudoun - their ER/ED has dramatically improved vs. 2 years ago. I cant help but wonder if the expansion was fast tracked b/c of the threat of HCA opening in Loudoun...does anyone know?

For major medical we still go to Reston or even as far as Bethesda.

In Dec 2005 had a major 4 surgeries at FFx & LH with multiple re-admits from complications. While under Inova care I was given the wrong dosage of meds, wasn’t getting pain meds (b/c the nursing staff didn’t read my chart correctly), my iv blew 9 times and picked up a systemic infection.

Jan 06 I begged to be transferred to Reston. During that stay I had 3 more surgeries, I recovered faster at Reston, my husband didn’t get calls at 3AM begging for him to come to the hospital and I was well cared for by the nursing staff.

I am know as a hard stick & blow IV's (which is very painful) - HCA's SOP is if you are a hard stick they will get an anesthesiologist to put in an IV & after you blow your IV the 2nd time you automatically get a PIC line.

I want competition and I want better healthcare in Loudoun County…otherwise I will continue to leave the county.

 

I do NOT know -- but it wouldn't surprise me. Then Loudoun could argue against HCA's Certificate of Need because of their expansion capacity. It's often easier for facilities that are already built to get CONs for expansion, than it is for a not-yet-built facility to get a CON for the same service.

Wow, good to know... I'll be going to a nearby hospital soon for some surgeries. The HCA hard-stick policy is great.
But speaking as a nurse, it should be any good nurse's policy to do something like that anyway... shouldn't need a hospital policy to enforce good clinical judgement. And if a person tells you they're a hard stick, by gawsh listen to them.

I'm all for healthy competition in the healthcare marketplace. It not only benefits patients, but it benefits nurses, too. Not just by bringing jobs, but by bringing more competition for jobs.

 

Donna,

I am on your list of hundreds, and as you know our views differ on the BRMC.

In 2006, there were 268,817 reisdents of Loudoun County. The "hundreds" you say you speak for is a very small number compared to over a quarter of a million.

Since you bring up numbers, I have a few interesting factual numbers to mention.

Loudoun Hospital opened in the Lansdowne location in 1997. There has not been a new hospital in Loudoun County since 1997.

According to the 2006 census:

• In 2000, (3 years after LH opened) there were 169,599 residents in Loudoun County.

• In 2006, (9 years after LH opened) there were 268,817 residents in Loudoun County.

• That is a 58.5% population growth within Loudoun over a six year period.

No new hospital beds since 1997. Past performance shows us that INOVA is fighting Loudouns obvious need for more beds tooth and nail; that is as long as the certificate of public need (COPN) is held by someone other than them. This is the ugly side of competition.

 

Inova sent in a Phlebotomy tech to re-stick me... hot towles & 19 sticks... i told her no more.
My hubby came in & saw the damage (and pointed it out to the dr) not eggerating...both arms were covered with orange size raised bruises - I couldnt make a fist.

Ironically it was the EMT 30+ years in the field in route to Reston who was able to get an iv in so I could get fluids and pain meds. Upon arrival HCA sent me to the Cath Lab to guide the pic line...BTW hubby about fainted when they pulled it out

 

I can answer this one. The key point, which is NOT the case in Loudoun, is that you would need to have two hospitals in close proximity and not enough of a population base to support them. If you have two hospitals operating at a low capacity, say 50%, this can lead to reduction in services and increased costs to try and keep the facility viable. In Loudoun, we are so underserved, this would not happen here.

 

From the Oops! Department:
Taking Donna's advice, I've been doing a little googling. Found two items of note:
2 Inova facilities are currently operating under a "Corporate Integrity Agreement" with the Office of Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services.
The two facilities are "Inova VNA home care" and "Inova Health Care Services at Inova Fair Oaks Hospital"

I haven't found out yet what the specific charges were against Inova.

As Artie Johnson would say: "Veerrrrrrrry Interesting!"

Maybe someone can enlighten us of the details?

 

Agree, though this is no different than how retail operates in actuality. So the point of my rhetorical questions is true: there is no difference when there is demand. Thanks, Cliff.

 

It is pretty much agreed we need another hospital, but do we want it on that site. Most likely it will be clear cut with a very small wooded area between Clydes and the ocean of parking at the hospital site and the garage will only be needed for their expansion down the road. Can you all wait 20 to 30 years for the twigs they will plant to grow into a real buffer. Besides the massive hospital there is a high rise garage and two high rise medical office buildings . No buffer no matter hall tall will block those buildings. The don't block the school ADMIM building. Clydes looks very nice there. Then you are going to have massive tall hospital with tall medical offices and a above ground garage that is NOT hidden or made to blend in like over in Brambleton.

The main entrance where 95 % of the traffic will be on Broadlands blvd. ANd the oceans of street level parking will be well lit at night possibly disturbing the residences.

The buffer is not all that wide in most spots and most likely will be planted not mature trees.

I see a lot of negatives to their site plan that most here are not even debating. That is what will be the real negatives not that Loudoun gets another hospital.

Personally I just see them condemning an office park on that site as just scare tactics from from the pro hospital people that want an hospital on that site.

Why does this county not learn from other well planned areas in the United sates and around the world and do planning correctly. Loudoun keeps repeating major planning blunders that have been shown to be a disaster in other poorly planned developments around this country.

Start looking at the site plan not whether we need another hospital an look at the misleading statements being made here how the physical facility will look and be sited. Hey if the ones that don't live near the hospital want to convince the ones that do live near it to sacrifice their property values, so be it. It will be on your conscience if you really have one for your neighbors.

At the very least that hospital site plan needs some serious work.

lee j

 

It is pretty much agreed we need another hospital, but do we want it on that site. Most likely it will be clear cut with a very small wooded area between Clydes and the ocean of parking at the hospital site and the garage will only be needed for their expansion down the road. Can you all wait 20 to 30 years for the twigs they will plant to grow into a real buffer. Besides the massive hospital there is a high rise garage and two high rise medical office buildings . No buffer no matter hall tall will block those buildings. The don't block the school ADMIM building. Clydes looks very nice there. Then you are going to have massive tall hospital with tall medical offices and a above ground garage that is NOT hidden or made to blend in like over in Brambleton.

The main entrance where 95 % of the traffic will be on Broadlands blvd. ANd the oceans of street level parking will be well lit at night possibly disturbing the residences.

The buffer is not all that wide in most spots and most likely will be planted not mature trees.

I see a lot of negatives to their site plan that most here are not even debating. That is what will be the real negatives not that Loudoun gets another hospital.

Personally I just see them condemning an office park on that site as just scare tactics from from the pro hospital people that want an hospital on that site.

Why does this county not learn from other well planned areas in the United sates and around the world and do planning correctly. Loudoun keeps repeating major planning blunders that have been shown to be a disaster in other poorly planned developments around this country.

Start looking at the site plan not whether we need another hospital an look at the misleading statements being made here how the physical facility will look and be sited. Hey if the ones that don't live near the hospital want to convince the ones that do live near it to sacrifice their property values, so be it. It will be on your conscience if you really have one for your neighbors.

At the very least that hospital site plan needs some serious work.

lee j

 

Ah, the world according to Lee! I think we should just make you Emperor of Loudoun, throw out the Board of Supervisors, the Planning Commission, zoning regulations, county staff, property rights, public input process, and just do what Lee proclaims!
Lee knows best, all else doesn't matter!

 

I'm still waiting to hear from Donna why competition doesn't apply to healthcare. Funny how it got so silent.

Lee, you have legitimate concerns. But there is no guarantee that an office park will look any better, especially given the history you so often cite here.

 

I think we definitely need another hospital in the area.....one by Rt50 or as lee suggested between AOL & Verizon. I think what most people have a problem with seems to be with location.

 

Cliff maybe that is the problem and don't take any offense to my statements, perhaps we need professional and not just professional but innovative planners with an national track record.

Get 3 or 4 arms length appraisers outside of our district and several nationally known planners and see what they say after examining the entire hospital plan from phase one to the final phase.

Sorry Cliff but I am sensitive on what effect an development has on all the neighborhoods especially the ones adjoining any project. I don't ever take the stand that an residential project is ever a mistake and all commercial development must take into the account of the residential and the effect on the residential first and foremost. everything else comings second. If a pud was planned right from the beginning then we would have fewer of these problems to begin with. I will repeat residential always takes top priority over the commercial whether it should of been their or not especially when the residential was there first.

Cliff show the people with the drawings what is exactly going on. How much of the site is going to be clear cut and then the buffers are planted. Show them how much surface parking there really is because the ugly parking garge comes later. Show the people what the mid rise medical office buildings are really going to look like.

Walk the site with your neighbors and mark where everything is going then mark each of the top corners of the buildings with balloons so the residents can see just how tall they will be including the medical office. Show what trees will be taken down according to the final site plan at full build out. also show that almost all the hospital traffic is going to be dumped onto broadlands blvd not belmont ridge blvd. Make sure all the buffers are placed into some kind of trust or whatever so the hospital can never ever build on any of it. Words are cheap and I am glad we have a Lawyer representing us in Stevens Miller who can make sure if this gets built we are not snookered not matter how he votes for or against the hospital.

The public needs to be fully informed of everything going on here especially the adjoining neighbors on both sides of the toll road in the farms and broadlands. Getting a zoning exception put up a lot of red flags to me and it should to everyone especially in a beatiful pud like the broadlands. THe broadlands commercial was not designed for developments like this hospital it does not have a central town center like the newer puds so much more precaution needs to be taken here as not to destroy the suburban character of the broadlands.

THere are more appropriate spots for this hospital then this suburban pud.

Lee j

 

Silence that is true to an certain extent but you would be surprised how much influence the public can have on an development if they are made aware of it soon enough whether it is by right or not. THis property is in a well planned and beautiful pud and the residents can have a lot more say if they are aware of what is going on early enough. Good neighbor developers will be sensitive of all the adjoining neighbors and compensate them if their project does financial harm to them. Loudoun is moving from the wild west kind of developer thinking to the sensitive good neighbor developer this especially happens in a major down market when the developers a competing for a much smaller part of the pie. Tenants want and prefer to lease in projects that are good neighbors and developers are very well aware of that in a down market as we are now entering in the commercial side of Loudoun. The paper today had an article on the empty buildings starting to pop up all over the toll road.

Lee j

 

Lee-
All of this has been done. I show the plans to anyone that asks, and there were many, many meetings with the public where these plans were presented to the public. It's nothing new.
As far as the height of the building, the School Admin Building shows the height.

Who is going to get the "national planners" out here?

You make reference to the amount of clearing for the hospital, but I haven't heard you comment about the planned clearing for the by-right office park.
Not your utopian version, but the version being marketed.

Oh, and I would vote you for Emperor....I think what you'd plan would look better than what we usually get......but there's all those pesky laws, rules, and regulations that get in the way!!

The plan has always been for Broadlands Blvd to be the main entrance for ALL the commercial development on Broadlands Blvd....the hospital and whatever gets developed on the east end near Claiborne. It is only the Emergency Entrance that will be on Belmont Ridge.
Broadlands Blvd is not a residential street. No homes open onto it. Broadlands Blvd was designed as a collector road to service millions of square feet of commercial development.

 

Cliff why so hostile. Just because all was done before does not mean anything to the new people that have moved here or were not aware of this before. All I want to know is a complete picture of what is going to be built. Every set of site plans has a clearing plan so that should be explained exactly what is going to be bulldozed down and if it is going to be a newly planted twig buffer. I was not aware before I saw the site plan that there was so much surface parking and the buffer in many spots especially across from some of those hones is extremely thin and most likely will not buffer anything if it is newly planted for 15 to 20 years. The parking garage has to be Built in addition to the oceans of surface parking because the site does not have near enough surface parking even if you paved over the buffers. So the garage is no gift to the residents it needs to be built because this is a massive project and there never ever could be enough surface parking. Which tells me you are crowding more on this site then an office project would would have. What is the total sq ft of the entire build out of the hospital complex compared to the square footage of the now zoned office project and the sq ft of the high rise parking garage? Is that possible extra footage in the hospital plan being hidden from the public in this re zoning request??????

When I saw the site plan I was very surprised how large this hospital complex really is at full build out. I was also surprised by the weakness of much of the buffer and was very very surprised about the amount of surface parking that is why I would love to study in depth the entire hospital plan and see if my first thoughts were correct. Further when I look at a site plan the first thing I want to see is the limits of clearing plan which tells a very different story many times then renderings showing trees that are fifty to a hundred years old which will not be the case if they are going to newly plant the buffer.

Laying out the buildings with surveyor tape and balloons at the corners tells visibly what the building heights really are and where the buildings are located so people on the ground can get an accurate idea of what they will look like visually in height and mass from the surrounding area. Is the school administration building the size of just ONE medical office?????? And we have two medical offices and a high rise parking garage as well as a massive hospital building ??????? When people don't want to bring in arms length experts such as appraisers and city planners and tell you we don't need them or don't worry everything is going to be ok OR IT was done before, but we don't see the actual paper work or who those so called experts really are and are they arms length from outside the area with no emotional and or financial interest. If this was done who paid them>???? WELL THAT MAKES ME VERY VERY AFRAID WE COULD BE SOLD OF BILL OF GOODS!!!! A big problem of the mortgage crisis right now are bad or dishonest appraisals and unscrupulous real estate people. THere is an excellent article about this in the wall street journal these last couple of weeks. So just who are these appraisers and real estate people you keep talking about Cliff that said don't worry about this hospital it will not hurt property values?????? Were they hired by the hospital and pro hospital people and are they truly arms length. Further a lot of things have changed in the real estate market since the last go around on this proposed hospital. Studies need to be done by independent experts with no attachment to this hospital to put my mind at peace not old and possible questionable studies of yesterday. This hospital was voted down before and there must be a good reason for it by a extremely pro growth board.

Lee j

Lee j

 

1. Expanding hospitals is kinda like expansion teams in a professional sports. In both situations, there is only so much talent to go around, and you can end up with a lot of facilities with limited talent.
2. Money!!!

 

Cliff,
What capacity is the existing hospital operating at? How does that compare to area/national averages?

I have lived in several areas of the country, both rural and urban, and have never had faster service in the ER than here.